Hello

[razeontherock]

This is just a matter that I have a hard time dealing with. Like I said earlier, it may not be so much disbelief as it is misplaced anger or just simply not understanding.

Welcome to CF!

The book of Job deals with this - head on. Have you read it?

 

[oi_antz]

I was unaware that the word benevolent was never used to describe God in the bible. Thanks for informing me of this.

Also feel to mention that God isn't confined to the bible. The bible is just a collection of writings from people who are reputed for having known God well, and they aren't the only ones. The key point of faith is developing the same relationship with God as the writers of the bible have had with Him.

 

[bling]

I agree with you! My wife is incredibly social.

On a different note...we did go to church as a family today. We went to bible class together as a married couple. The content of the study was quite ironic in many ways. This is my first time attending in probably a month. The class was basically about how men need to step up and take on the leadership roles in the family like God calls us to. This is something that I have often thought about.

On the way home I asked my wife if she agreed with what he was saying and she told me she did. I then proceeded to ask her how she feels about me in this regard. She told me that she wishes I would be the one that leads the family in church and spiritual matters but she also said that she is happy with how I am now. I am very involved in our children's lives(son is 4 months and daughter is 2.5yrs) but I know I certainly am not in the same way the bible calls us to be.

I find this whole lesson to be ironic simply because it deals with some very serious and personal subject matter and I rarely attend. I want to do the very best I can for my family and this lesson really hit home.

Thank you very much; you bring tears to my eyes. I have been where you are. You have a wonderful wife and those kids are a huge blessing and a wonderful responsibility.
I am serious about having been where you are and thinking all those other men in church have it all together, they do not!

Your story would bring tears to some of their eye also and they could really use your encouragement.

I have found when I do try to help others; I wind up helping myself more (the Lord helps me).

The Bible does not call you to be something you are not, but God/Christ/Spirit/Bible will make you more wonderful than you can imagine, if you allow them to (this can be fast or slow but there will also be ups and downs).

Just keep growing, I like you already and you are an encouragement to me the way you are right now.

 

[bling]

Welcome to CF!

The book of Job deals with this - head on. Have you read it?

Job is a heavy book, this guy is not a scholar.

 

[Annoula]

I find this whole lesson to be ironic simply because it deals with some very serious and personal subject matter and I rarely attend. I want to do the very best I can for my family and this lesson really hit home.

men leading the spiritual life of their family would be a great thing in an idealistic christian planet. unfortunately we don't live in such a planet. we are individuals with different tendencies and interests, and being a man doesn't mean that you (not personally of course) are in a better spiritual state than your wife. there are many occasions that a woman is closer to God and she is able to draw her husband and children too.
it's not a sin, it's not bad, it's just very common.

don't feel bad about anything, just try to get a personal relationship with Christ and everything will be fine.

take care!

 

[elman]

Thank you for your response. I have lately been thinking that maybe I was baptized for the wrong reasons. I had a strong desire to believe but maybe I really did not at the time. This is an issue that bothers me immensely. It may not be so much that I do not believe but rather have some misplaced questions and anger directed at God.

I was at one point of time a full blown atheist. Growing up in public school I was always taught to believe things that I thought were contradictory to the bible(old earth, evolution, ect). This sparked my initial disbelief. I am now past that stage and realize that science and Christianity are perfectly compatible with one another.

My current dilemma deals with pain, suffering and evil. I often can not reconcile a belief in a benevolent God when their is so much pain in the world. Every time I hear of a child being born with cancer or anything along those lines this issue comes up. This is just a matter that I have a hard time dealing with. Like I said earlier, it may not be so much disbelief as it is misplaced anger or just simply not understanding.

Thanks again for your response.

I have found no answer to the question of why there is so much pain and suffering unrelated to the evil actions of mankind. This lack of an answer to that question does not however push me into believing we exist for no reason and have no destiny but oblivion. I do not accept there is no answer, just because I have not found it.

 

[golgotha61]

The strange thing about all of this is...I really feel like this is what I am suppose to be doing. I feel like I am being drawn to this in someway. It is a very weird feeling that I can not describe. I have been reading the bible a lot more over this past week and this is just something that I am sure I will eventually figure out.

I know the feeling and so do most of the believers that see this thread. That feeling you have is the Holy Spirit drawing you to himself and you are in the care and direction of God Himself. What a magnificent place you are now in; right smack dab in the center of God's will and plan for your life. I will pray that nothing can come and take your eye off the prize and hinder your growth. The angels in heaven rejoice as do I.

 

[razeontherock]

I may have just not had the support base I needed to confront these questions at the time. [Shortly after being Baptized] I tend to be a very private person and do not socialize a whole lot. This is something that I obviously need to work on.

The word here, is "Discipleship." In our Western society, most of us may not be exposed to much of what Christianity really is; a Body of believers.

We like our independence, and this results in a disjointed existence that can actually grieve the Holy Spirit. These are not easy changes to make, especially when we may not have a really clear example of what pleases G-d in this area ... reaching out to find a "Good" Church has never been an easy process for me. It has been very rewarding though!

We are the sheep of His pasture, and we need to be fed.

ETA: just saw your post #20. Like Bling, you bring tears of joy to my eyes. Please realize that these words still ring true today, that "the Kingdom of heaven is at hand." When Jesus first said that, I think He implied we need to reach, and there is something we need to do. I think that hasn't changed!

That "feeling" you had, when pondering Sunday's Bible study? We call that "conviction." There are 3 things the Holy Spirit is sent to convince us of, and they are all wonderful. His Presence is always wonderful! And your wife agrees with your new-found conviction, which makes everything that much better:

Proverbs 18:22 "[Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD."

Congratulations!

 

[SPB1987]

men leading the spiritual life of their family would be a great thing in an idealistic christian planet. unfortunately we don't live in such a planet. we are individuals with different tendencies and interests, and being a man doesn't mean that you (not personally of course) are in a better spiritual state than your wife. there are many occasions that a woman is closer to God and she is able to draw her husband and children too.
it's not a sin, it's not bad, it's just very common.

don't feel bad about anything, just try to get a personal relationship with Christ and everything will be fine.

take care!

I understand what you are saying. It also appears that women are more inclined towards being religious than men are. I have noticed that I am not the only husband there who often does not show up. Some of even seem as if they are there just to appease their wife.

 

[SPB1987]

I know the feeling and so do most of the believers that see this thread. That feeling you have is the Holy Spirit drawing you to himself and you are in the care and direction of God Himself. What a magnificent place you are now in; right smack dab in the center of God's will and plan for your life. I will pray that nothing can come and take your eye off the prize and hinder your growth. The angels in heaven rejoice as do I.

I would love to believe that the Holy Spirit is drawing me towards him. I am just unsure as this moment in time. I am spending more and more time reading the bible over these past few weeks. I will hopefully be able to feel comfortable with belief in the near future. It appears as if I should also study the book of Job in depth as well.

 

[SPB1987]

I have found no answer to the question of why there is so much pain and suffering unrelated to the evil actions of mankind. This lack of an answer to that question does not however push me into believing we exist for no reason and have no destiny but oblivion. I do not accept there is no answer, just because I have not found it.

Pain and suffering is not a reason to not believe in a higher power. I was not in any way trying to put forth the idea that pain and suffering contradict the idea of a higher power. I do however have a hard time reconciling my idea of the God of the bible with so much pain and suffering in the world.

 

[oi_antz]

I do however have a hard time reconciling my idea of the God of the bible with so much pain and suffering in the world.

Remember in Genesis God blessed Adam and Eve and gave them the responsibility to "fill the earth and subdue it". We've done well to fill the earth, but how well have we managed to subdue it?

 

[golgotha61]

I would love to believe that the Holy Spirit is drawing me towards him. I am just unsure as this moment in time. I am spending more and more time reading the bible over these past few weeks. I will hopefully be able to feel comfortable with belief in the near future. It appears as if I should also study the book of Job in depth as well.

The book of Ecclesiastes is also very helpful in your quest for answers on the pain and suffering in the world today and how a God of love could allow these things to continue. If you have any questions on particular verses in Job or Ecclesiastes, I’m sure anyone here would be honored to help in your understanding along with the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

Let me give you a view of Who is guiding you in the Word of God: 1 Corinthians 2:11 (KJV) 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. This verse tells us that is the Holy Spirit who gives man the understanding of His Word.
Also: Luke 24:44-45 (KJV)
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. This verse then tells us that along with the fact that the Holy Spirit knows the things of God He also has the ministry of giving us the understanding of the scripture.
Your faith will be strengthened as you study because of this verse: Romans 10:17 (KJV) 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


I will be following this thread with anticipation.

 

[elman]

Pain and suffering is not a reason to not believe in a higher power. I was not in any way trying to put forth the idea that pain and suffering contradict the idea of a higher power. I do however have a hard time reconciling my idea of the God of the bible with so much pain and suffering in the world.

I believe in the God of the Bible that is love. I don't believe in the God of the Bible that tells people to kill their son or kills people or commands that people be killed.

 

[bling]

I understand what you are saying. It also appears that women are more inclined towards being religious than men are. I have noticed that I am not the only husband there who often does not show up. Some of even seem as if they are there just to appease their wife.

This is sad but true. There are lots of studies showing how inportant it is for the father to be involved with both girls and boys. You will be a huge influennce on your childrens spiritualite, as if you did not have enough worries.

 

[SPB1987]

I believe in the God of the Bible that is love. I don't believe in the God of the Bible that tells people to kill their son or kills people or commands that people be killed.

Sarcasm?

 

[SPB1987]

The book of Ecclesiastes is also very helpful in your quest for answers on the pain and suffering in the world today and how a God of love could allow these things to continue. If you have any questions on particular verses in Job or Ecclesiastes, I’m sure anyone here would be honored to help in your understanding along with the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

Let me give you a view of Who is guiding you in the Word of God: 1 Corinthians 2:11 (KJV) 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. This verse tells us that is the Holy Spirit who gives man the understanding of His Word.
Also: Luke 24:44-45 (KJV)
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. This verse then tells us that along with the fact that the Holy Spirit knows the things of God He also has the ministry of giving us the understanding of the scripture.
Your faith will be strengthened as you study because of this verse: Romans 10:17 (KJV) 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


I will be following this thread with anticipation.

Thanks for your response. I will look into both Job and Ecclesiastes. I think my major issue is my inability to have faith. I am an incredibly skeptical individual and often find it hard to have a belief in something that I can not see or can not be demonstrated. I really still feel as if I am being pulled toward this in one way or another. Thanks again for your post.

 

[oi_antz]

Sarcasm?

I don't think so, I have noticed that elman doesn't always interpret the bible in the obvious manner. He has studied the bible in depth to achieve the deeper meanings that literal interpretation cannot portray. However in saying this I don't think you should discount his knowledge and understanding, the faith that is produced in us depends on how much we trust God. Elman in this case cannot be faulted. If on the other hand you do interpret the bible in the obvious manner and you do believe that God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, told Moses to defeat the sinful civilizations, then you'll likely need to work on understanding both sides of the story. The bible is a record that can be considered biased in favor of God, by representing only that information that is relevant to having faith in God. It doesn't therefore go on to explain the nature of the Canaanites such that God would hate them, you would need to obtain that knowledge from a non-biblical source if you were interested in understanding why Moses was instructed to defeat them.

 

[razeontherock]

Thanks for your response. I will look into both Job and Ecclesiastes. I think my major issue is my inability to have faith. I am an incredibly skeptical individual and often find it hard to have a belief in something that I can not see or can not be demonstrated. I really still feel as if I am being pulled toward this in one way or another. Thanks again for your post.

G-d is demonstrating Himself to you! It's called the drawing Power of the Holy Ghost, who is a gentleman. He will not force you against your will. With this demonstration it is possible for you to come to have Faith in something you can neither see, nor fully comprehend.

It is also possible for you to harden your heart, turn your back on Him, and grieve the Holy Spirit. This is something we usually also share in, and may find it difficult to understand.

So the dividing line here, is "ability to have Faith!" You DO have such an ability!! "according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." (Romans 12:3)

The question then becomes - HOW??!? And here's your answer:

(Romans 10:17) "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Notice there was no punctuation in the original manuscripts, so this reads "hearing and hearing." This is a critical time in your life, a crossroads, an intersection. Proceed with caution! Find a good Church, which can only be compared to what you find int he pages of your Holy Bible ...

 

[SPB1987]

G-d is demonstrating Himself to you! It's called the drawing Power of the Holy Ghost, who is a gentleman. He will not force you against your will. With this demonstration it is possible for you to come to have Faith in something you can neither see, nor fully comprehend.

It is also possible for you to harden your heart, turn your back on Him, and grieve the Holy Spirit. This is something we usually also share in, and may find it difficult to understand.

So the dividing line here, is "ability to have Faith!" You DO have such an ability!! "according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." (Romans 12:3)

The question then becomes - HOW??!? And here's your answer:

(Romans 10:17) "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Notice there was no punctuation in the original manuscripts, so this reads "hearing and hearing." This is a critical time in your life, a crossroads, an intersection. Proceed with caution! Find a good Church, which can only be compared to what you find int he pages of your Holy Bible ...

I am enjoying your responses. I like how you use bible verses to back up the points your saying. I find myself frequently pulling out my NKJV and reading the actual verses for myself. We are currently attending a Church of Christ. I was raised Southern Baptist and my wife had experience with Church of Christ(her grandparents go to a Church of Christ). These are the only two types of churches I have ever visited. Thanks again!