Hello?

[RevCowboy]

Well...we could call you "Vic." I believe that "Reverend Seminarian" is a proper title for someone in your position. So...RevSemCowboy?

In my time here at ChristianForums you are the first ELCIC member I've met. At least that I know of.

So, how's things in the ELCIC?

Here's a question, not for debate, but for my personal edification. Isn't same-sex marriage legal in Canada? What's the ELCIC's position on performing same-sex marrages?

OK. That was two questions.

Reverend Seminarian, I like that too!

Well, the ELCIC is very small. We have about 200,000 members across Canada. But otherwise we a strong church. We have two seminaries, 5 synods, and 6 bishops. Its pretty good for our numbers. We just elected a new National Bishop this summer, which isn't as big a deal here as it is in the ELCA. We are also incredibly inter-related, we are like a big family. Kind of like that six degrees of Kevin Bacon thing, but for us its never usually more than 2...

Same-sex marriage is legal in Canada and was passed by parliament in the summer of 2005. After that it has been barely noticeable in the secular world, people have largely forgotten the issue. I think its way less than 1% of marriages are same-sex.

The issues has not been forgotten in the church however. We have had motions regarding the blessing of same-sex marriage at our last two national conventions. Both were variations on the local option. The first was congregational local option in 2005. And this summer was a synodical local option. Both were defeated at 55% against 45% for.

The Eastern Synod of ELCIC has voted unconstitutionally to allow same-sex marriages, although I don't know if they are actually happening there. And it is likely that there will be another motion regarding same-sex blessing at the next national convention, which be summer 2009 and will only a few months after I will probably be in my first call.

What is ELCA's current position on same-sex marriage? I am sure its not as quite as pressing since it isn't as universally accepted in the secular world in the United States.

Hi there RevCowboy! I am a seminarian too, at the GTU in California. Where are you studying? Orthodox might be a tricky word to use, since Lutheran orthodoxy already refers to a particular historical movement, but I certainly share the sentiment.

I am studying at the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Saskatoon (I would give you the link to the website but apparently need to have posted 15 times to do so) one of two ELCIC seminaries in Canada. Saskatoon is the seminary for the western provinces and synods.I am on my third year internship/vicarage, and I am counting down the months until graduation which is about 15 right now! How far along in the process are you?

Alright, I think I got all the questions...

 

[DailyBlessings]

What is ELCA's current position on same-sex marriage? I am sure its not as quite as pressing since it isn't as universally accepted in the secular world in the United States.

It's a bit complicated. Officially, we do not recognize same-sex marriages as marriages in Biblical tradition, and ordained ministers are expected to abstain from homosexual relationships. However, the matter is far from resolved and individual congregations treat the matter very differently. I'd say we are split nearly down the middle on the matter of same-sex marriages, a difficult and unfortunate place to be.

I am studying at the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Saskatoon (I would give you the link to the website but apparently need to have posted 15 times to do so) one of two ELCIC seminaries in Canada. Saskatoon is the seminary for the western provinces and synods.I am on my third year internship/vicarage, and I am counting down the months until graduation which is about 15 right now! How far along in the process are you?

I'm just finishing up my first semester, so I'm pretty new to the process. Where are you doing your internship? Are you enjoying the experience?

 

[RevCowboy]

I am doing my internship in Calgary AB. Hope Lutheran. Its a pretty large size congregation with about 800 members and 250 average on Sunday. Its a very liturgical congregation with lots of great music.

I am really enjoying it, its definitely something to look forward to. My supervisor and I get along quite well which is an extremely important key to having a good internship.

So how has the first semester of seminary been? Life changing? Has it destroyed your faith (just kidding)?

 

[D.W.Washburn]

RevSemCowboy:

Thanks for the info.

Here, on your behalf, the link to LTS, Calgary:

http://www.usask.ca/stu/luther/

As large as the ELCA is, it's often like a small (and rather incestuous) family. It's not unusual to meet someone who knows someone. I recently met the high school roomate of the pastor who confirmed me.

As RevSemDailyBlessings said, the issues surrounding sexuality are far from resolved in the ELCA. The blessing of same sex unions is done on a local option basis. Some of our bishops take a stronger stance against it than others, so it doesn't happen in their synods.

Our last Church-wide Assembly passed a resolution encouraging bishops to refrain from disciplining pastors who are living in committed same-sex relationships. The bishops still can discipline them...and of course the can be disciplined for other things...but the Assembly encouraged them to refrain.

Same-sex marriage and ordination of gays are the hot button topics in the ELCA.

 

[DailyBlessings]

As RevSemDailyBlessings said...

LOL, that's a mouthful!

My Dad likes to joke that when I earn my Master of Divinity I should encourage people to address me as "divine master".

So how has the first semester of seminary been? Life changing? Has it destroyed your faith (just kidding)?

Now see this is finals week, and thus probably not the best time to ask!

Really though, some parts have been really hard, especially because going to seminary has meant living in a different state than my fiancee, who is finishing up her own degree still. But the all of work I love, and my call is a source of great joy to me, so I suppose it is a mixed bag so far. I'm very much looking forward to being assigned to a teaching parish next semester.

 

[JoeCatch]

I was never around during the heyday of ELCA Lutheranism on TCL, but as it stands now I think it's probably the discussions on the main forum that keep ELCA Lutherans away from TCL altogether. Having to be able to "take the heat" will suit some personalities, but my guess is that quite a few people who would join a site that calls itself Christian Forums, might not be interested in the predominance of heated discussions at TCL. And for those who fall into that category who are also in the minority in terms of what Lutheran church body they represent, TCL really has nothing to offer them.

I love theological debate as much as anybody, but even I find the need to take frequent, extended breaks from this place. I know that I'm "really Lutheran" and can brush off the frequent suggestions to the contrary from those on the other end of the ideological spectrum, but I'm sure many have simply decided for themselves that they shouldn't have to do so.

I agree that the moderation has always been good at TCL for as long as I've been here. I wish just as much as anybody that the ELCA subforum would be more active and maintain a steady base of participants, but I completely understand why other ELCA Lutherans have decided to stay away from this place altogether.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

Hi Joe.

I really don't have the stomach for the main TCL forum. I don't mind debate. I don't mind disagreement. I don't feel the need to fight all the time however, and I get tired of some of what I perceive to be rudeness.

Anyway...nice to see ya!

 

[D.W.Washburn]

My Dad likes to joke that when I earn my Master of Divinity I should encourage people to address me as "divine master".

Did you tell him that when you get ordained your mother becomes a retroactive virgin?

Now see this is finals week, and thus probably not the best time to ask!

Anyone who thinks that seminary destroys faith, has failed to take into account the fact that finals week encourages more frequent and more fervent prayer.



Prayers and wishes of good luck for your finals!

 

[DailyBlessings]

Did you tell him that when you get ordained your mother becomes a retroactive virgin?

I think I would be too afraid of what his answer would be! But thanks for the well-wishes on my finals- I'm almost through the hump. And I wish I did pray more often, and more fervently! It seems paradoxical but seminary has kept me so busy and so stressed that I think my meditative life has suffered more than gained. I don't think seminary ever destroys faith, but it does make you look very hard and analytically at what your faith constitutes, and some people unfortunately discover that their roots were not as deep as they thought. It is a trial, and people respond to trials in different ways. All are God's children, and all are blessed along the way.

 

[RevCowboy]

Thanks for posting the link to the seminary RegularGuy! Unfortunately the website gets an update every few years or so, its a bit embarrassing...

Anyways, the bit about seminary destroying faith is always mostly myth. There was of course the time a few decades ago when profs took it upon themselves to break down one's faith while in the first year seminary only to put it back together for the next 3 years. Fortunately, I came in to seminary with a BA in History and Theology, so I mostly slept through first year since every class I had already taken in some form in undergrad. But for folks coming in with time between their last degree and when they start, that first semester can be really tough and I am glad you made it through DB. Good luck with whatever you have left and take solice in the fact usually seminary profs want you to pass, unlike some university profs.

As far the Lutheran Debate forums, I might weigh in and see how the response goes. I have found that even though many conservative Lutherans may want to label me unLutheran, they find it hard to do so when I know more about Luther than they do...

 

[DailyBlessings]

As far the Lutheran Debate forums, I might weigh in and see how the response goes. I have found that even though many conservative Lutherans may want to label me unLutheran, they find it hard to do so when I know more about Luther than they do...

Good luck, there are some smart cookies down there... and some stubborn ones. I usually end up getting goaded into some silly argument instead of having a meaningful discussion. But then, there is much that I do not know yet. At least I'm aware of that fact!

 

[D.W.Washburn]

Martin Luther once said something to the effect of:

"I have so much to do today that I will have to spend the first three hours in prayer."

The "seminary destroys faith" myth is something I've actually heard pastors say they were told by call committees.

Sigh...

RevCowboy...you're welcome.

 

[RevCowboy]

Martin Luther once said something to the effect of:

"I have so much to do today that I will have to spend the first three hours in prayer."

The "seminary destroys faith" myth is something I've actually heard pastors say they were told by call committees.

Sigh...

RevCowboy...you're welcome.

I think 98% of the people who hold to the "seminary destroys faith" myth have not actually stepped foot inside a seminary and the other 2% probably didn't finish their MDiv.

I have been thinking about threads to start here that might be ELCA/ELCIC only... maybe I will start one about the new Worship Book.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I think 98% of the people who hold to the "seminary destroys faith" myth have not actually stepped foot inside a seminary and the other 2% probably didn't finish their MDiv.

I have been thinking about threads to start here that might be ELCA/ELCIC only... maybe I will start one about the new Worship Book.

Oooh, go ahead! I'd love to see this subforum come alive.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I think 98% of the people who hold to the "seminary destroys faith" myth have not actually stepped foot inside a seminary and the other 2% probably didn't finish their MDiv.

I have been thinking about threads to start here that might be ELCA/ELCIC only... maybe I will start one about the new Worship Book.

By all means...I think a discussion of the pros and cons of the ELW could be good!

And, I think 84% of all statistics are made up on the spot.