Hello! Good to meet you!

[Farine]

Another I happened to find from Panic at the Disco:

This is Gospel

I'm glad you picked that one. Why? It's awful! The despair is so thick, you could almost cut it with a knife. The lyrics even expressly say that they aren't bonded to anyone and deeply afraid. That's life without God.

The natural realm without God's active involvement is a barren wasteland. Now, I believe I mentioned these girls of mine investigate things. The real question is what do they DO when they encounter these themes and expressions. What does it MEAN to them? They don't relate to the themes of despair.. fear.. isolation. That's not who they are. They listen to it a couple of times and then pass it over for something else that does resonate to them. All my attentiveness and patience is waiting for THAT. What is it that says what they are feeling and thinking?

What is really interesting is that I'm often the Mom who is consulted by friends of my daughters. I regularly get brought into situations that concern them. My daughters tell these other girls that their mother is available and a good listener. That's why I said 'the stories I could tell you'. People think young people don't have big problems. They can.

That's not to say I haven't vetoed songs. I have. It's better, usually, not to veto listening to the songs when I can't enforce it reasonably (they all wear earphones).. to discuss lyrics like 'This Is Gospel'.. etc etc. Having rules one cannot enforce leaches power quickly. Not bragging.. when I do put my foot down it's respected.

 

[Julie.S]

Welcome

 

[faroukfarouk]

I'm glad you picked that one. Why? It's awful! The despair is so thick, you could almost cut it with a knife. The lyrics even expressly say that they aren't bonded to anyone and deeply afraid. That's life without God.

The natural realm without God's active involvement is a barren wasteland. Now, I believe I mentioned these girls of mine investigate things. The real question is what do they DO when they encounter these themes and expressions. What does it MEAN to them? They don't relate to the themes of despair.. fear.. isolation. That's not who they are. They listen to it a couple of times and then pass it over for something else that does resonate to them. All my attentiveness and patience is waiting for THAT. What is it that says what they are feeling and thinking?

What is really interesting is that I'm often the Mom who is consulted by friends of my daughters. I regularly get brought into situations that concern them. My daughters tell these other girls that their mother is available and a good listener. That's why I said 'the stories I could tell you'. People think young people don't have big problems. They can.

That's not to say I haven't vetoed songs. I have. It's better, usually, not to veto listening to the songs when I can't enforce it reasonably (they all wear earphones).. to discuss lyrics like 'This Is Gospel'.. etc etc. Having rules one cannot enforce leaches power quickly. Not bragging.. when I do put my foot down it's respected.

In any case, there is some Christian hard rock which has hard hitting lyrics. Red and Disciple seem to combine a Christian message with effective, hard rock; and maybe your daughters respond to hard rock in any case.

I can understand you not opting for the veto, anyway.

We're talking about music here of course, but often there are other issues which some conservative Christians try to enforce as no-nos, even though they are ultimately subjective.

 

[Farine]

Welcome

Hi! Thank you for your welcome... it's actually encouraging as this music/ parenting conversation is going on in the background. You didn't run screaming from the room! Go me!

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi! Thank you for your welcome... it's actually encouraging as this music/ parenting conversation is going on in the background. You didn't run screaming from the room! Go me!

So were you yourself ever into rock music years ago?

(Just wondered.)

God bless your family.

 

[Farine]

So were you yourself ever into rock music years ago?

(Just wondered.)

God bless your family.

Dan Fogelberg was from Peoria, Il and so am I. We ALL liked him out of respect for our community. Hall and Oates wasn't as out there as say Rush. Music did not speak for me or to me the way I see it active in my teens lives. My focus was friends and being active doing things with them. Portable music came a long way since I was young. If you wanted to have music with you, you either had to hoist a boom box (a LOT of weight and double D batteries)or limit your activities to an area with an extension cord. A radio wasn't so bad, but that still was relatively heavy. I think most teens in my era listened to music at home as a result. That put one's music in the hearing of one's parents.

When my cousin came to live with us to attend college, she brought her record collection. And already straining the bonds of relationship at her parents', she did not easily back down on her music choices. Queen, ELO, AIR Supply started floating on the air. This is where I made the distinction that if a song isn't saying something that relates to you then it is mentally deleted. I did not care about "We will rock you" - Queen. I went outside to hang out with the local kids to build forts or discuss what else we were building. We made a lot of items from stuff we found.

I remember the town protesting when Ozzy Ozbourne came to town. Back then, he was as extreme as it got as far as stage antics. He was deliberately trying to offend. None of us had a desire to go. We knew of him. So what.

Just like one has to fit consequences to each child, one has to evaluate the moral risks. I think my parents should have paid more attention to what I was reading....

 

[faroukfarouk]

Dan Fogelberg was from Peoria, Il and so am I. We ALL liked him out of respect for our community. Hall and Oates wasn't as out there as say Rush. Music did not speak for me or to me the way I see it active in my teens lives. My focus was friends and being active doing things with them. Portable music came a long way since I was young. If you wanted to have music with you, you either had to hoist a boom box (a LOT of weight and double D batteries)or limit your activities to an area with an extension cord. A radio wasn't so bad, but that still was relatively heavy. I think most teens in my era listened to music at home as a result. That put one's music in the hearing of one's parents.

When my cousin came to live with us to attend college, she brought her record collection. And already straining the bonds of relationship at her parents', she did not easily back down on her music choices. Queen, ELO, AIR Supply started floating on the air. This is where I made the distinction that if a song isn't saying something that relates to you then it is mentally deleted. I did not care about "We will rock you" - Queen. I went outside to hang out with the local kids to build forts or discuss what else we were building. We made a lot of items from stuff we found.

I remember the town protesting when Ozzy Ozbourne came to town. Back then, he was as extreme as it got as far as stage antics. He was deliberately trying to offend. None of us had a desire to go. We knew of him. So what.

Just like one has to fit consequences to each child, one has to evaluate the moral risks. I think my parents should have paid more attention to what I was reading....

Interesting!

Sounds like your daughters are more into rock music than you were.

 

[faroukfarouk]

... this music/ parenting conversation is going on in the background.

Yes, it's a big issue in a lot of households with teens.

There are a lot of other teen issues as well; and looking at it from a clear skies perspective rock music - which also has its Christian variety, even with hard rock and heavy metal - is probably among the lesser of concerns, if it's even a concern at all.

 

[Farine]

Yes, it's a big issue in a lot of households with teens.

There are a lot of other teen issues as well; and looking at it from a clear skies perspective rock music - which also has its Christian variety, even with hard rock and heavy metal - is probably among the lesser of concerns, if it's even a concern at all.

I'm gathering material for writing a book about the developing independence of one's child. It helps me parent to think that all this research could benefit someone besides me.

If you parse the teen issues into piles, the development of morality fits hand in glove with the development of critical thinking skills. I don't treat them as separate issues. I think a lot of morality issues is sloppy thinking. It was too much work to project the possible outcomes of an action. Besides, they are all going to live indefinitely, don't you know?

And if the parent is the perceived governing force instead of God, all rules are off once out of the jurisdiction of the parent. God is everywhere. God is the ultimate One offended by sin. I may suffer as a result of my child's choices. THat's really a side issue. You see this on university campuses all over the country. Parents who had reasonable limits and reasonable control of teens living in their home have a total shock about how their young person behaves when in college. It's a perception issue.
Alongside the development of good mental habits is the restraint of passion. See a dress at the Department store? It's so cute! Yeah, but that money was meant for something else. Someone spread a rumor about you? That's horrible! Yeah, but don't smack the gossip in the face.

All these activities take parental time. For our family, that means we trim our budget way back so I don't have to work full time. We're modeling what we expect to see in them. Yes, there's the right place for some fiscal exuberance. One cannot succeed at a budget totally devoted to it night and day. It has to be there on most days or the time gets sold to support a lifestyle that's incongruent with parenting goals.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I'm gathering material for writing a book about the developing independence of one's child. It helps me parent to think that all this research could benefit someone besides me.

If you parse the teen issues into piles, the development of morality fits hand in glove with the development of critical thinking skills. I don't treat them as separate issues. I think a lot of morality issues is sloppy thinking. It was too much work to project the possible outcomes of an action. Besides, they are all going to live indefinitely, don't you know?

And if the parent is the perceived governing force instead of God, all rules are off once out of the jurisdiction of the parent. God is everywhere. God is the ultimate One offended by sin. I may suffer as a result of my child's choices. THat's really a side issue. You see this on university campuses all over the country. Parents who had reasonable limits and reasonable control of teens living in their home have a total shock about how their young person behaves when in college. It's a perception issue.
Alongside the development of good mental habits is the restraint of passion. See a dress at the Department store? It's so cute! Yeah, but that money was meant for something else. Someone spread a rumor about you? That's horrible! Yeah, but don't smack the gossip in the face.

All these activities take parental time. For our family, that means we trim our budget way back so I don't have to work full time. We're modeling what we expect to see in them. Yes, there's the right place for some fiscal exuberance. One cannot succeed at a budget totally devoted to it night and day. It has to be there on most days or the time gets sold to support a lifestyle that's incongruent with parenting goals.

Well, it's great that you don't have to work full time.

Seems like teens these days have a lot more money than in our day. In many cases, anyway.

Often they'll spend it on electronic gadgets, make up, CDs (no knowing what they're listening to, sometimes! but you make a good point about them learning discernment), jewelry and piercing, and of course MacDonalds.

 

[Farine]

Well, it's great that you don't have to work full time.

Seems like teens these days have a lot more money than in our day. In many cases, anyway.

Often they'll spend it on electronic gadgets, make up, CDs (no knowing what they're listening to, sometimes! but you make a good point about them learning discernment), jewelry and piercing, and of course MacDonalds.

I wanted to thank you for being in this conversation with me. I've really enjoyed it. As crazy amounts of time have been invested in these two teens, there is a passion for discussing what will or will not make this investment work long term.

Your remark about teens having more money than in our day as a general rule I would agree with... to a point. My university degree is in mathematics. There's a cute website:
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

It automatically calculates what the past value of money was. For example, if you spent $3.00 in 1960 on something that translates into $24.13 into today's currency. That's how much the dollar has devalued in that time period.. or turn it another way.. that's how much inflation has affected it. As long as the teen is spending in the range of amount of money factored for inflation between then (whenever that was) and now... it's materially the same amount of economic power.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well might be).. Is it the prevailing issue of teens' spending habits due to their lack of experience (or abundance of shortedsightness of future needs) .. OR.. the tendency to linger in adolescence? You see individuals staying in that state for absurdly long periods of time IMHO.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I wanted to thank you for being in this conversation with me. I've really enjoyed it. As crazy amounts of time have been invested in these two teens, there is a passion for discussing what will or will not make this investment work long term.

Your remark about teens having more money than in our day as a general rule I would agree with... to a point. My university degree is in mathematics. There's a cute website:
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

It automatically calculates what the past value of money was. For example, if you spent $3.00 in 1960 on something that translates into $24.13 into today's currency. That's how much the dollar has devalued in that time period.. or turn it another way.. that's how much inflation has affected it. As long as the teen is spending in the range of amount of money factored for inflation between then (whenever that was) and now... it's materially the same amount of economic power.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well might be).. Is it the prevailing issue of teens' spending habits due to their lack of experience (or abundance of shortedsightness of future needs) .. OR.. the tendency to linger in adolescence? You see individuals staying in that state for absurdly long periods of time IMHO.

YW. Interesting question there.

I don't really know the answer to your question.

I do know that some parents who might think that their teens are spending too much on make up, jewelry etc. (and even boys wear jewelry a lot today, sometimes), react by cutting off or down on their allowances. I guess the best path is for them to learn discernment and restraint instead, and thus become more familiar with the value of money.

Above all, it's the 'inward man', as Paul says to the Ephesians, that really counts, in relation to righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Farine]

Farouk, I'm an armchair economist. What I mean is that I studied it in college in a moderate way. Life trained me to survive. The intensity of the battle to survive changed me profoundly.

There are many skills that were honed to a fine edge. I have made my own furniture from saplings and branches. Long before re-purposing was a 'thing', I was doing it only my grandparents called it 'making do'. I have bought garage sale items and either fixed them or took them apart to make something else. Bartering? I've done it extensively. As soon as we move to a new location, I begin to reassemble my trading partners lost from the change of address. Domestic skills? Sewing, knitting, crocheting, paper-mache, basic carpentry, gardening, jewelry-making. I've had earth worm composting going for long stretches of time. It's harder to do in my current location because of the high heat of summer (high desert).

My grand parents were from the turn of the century (1906-1910). My parents were born later in life (1943). I've been on the farm in my formative years learning how to preserve food and work around livestock. It hurts when a cow steps on your foot. Both sets of grandparents had farms.

All this background and it STILL was terribly difficult for me at times. I live near two schools. When the dismiss school bell rings and scores of young people pour out of the buildings, I really wonder how they will function. Most of them don't have an appetite to pick up skills. From my vantage point, that aptitude for learning is what greatly contributed to my being here. Let's not forget the care of God. Providence is real.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Farouk, I'm an armchair economist. What I mean is that I studied it in college in a moderate way. Life trained me to survive. The intensity of the battle to survive changed me profoundly.

There are many skills that were honed to a fine edge. I have made my own furniture from saplings and branches. Long before re-purposing was a 'thing', I was doing it only my grandparents called it 'making do'. I have bought garage sale items and either fixed them or took them apart to make something else. Bartering? I've done it extensively. As soon as we move to a new location, I begin to reassemble my trading partners lost from the change of address. Domestic skills? Sewing, knitting, crocheting, paper-mache, basic carpentry, gardening, jewelry-making. I've had earth worm composting going for long stretches of time. It's harder to do in my current location because of the high heat of summer (high desert).

My grand parents were from the turn of the century (1906-1910). My parents were born later in life (1943). I've been on the farm in my formative years learning how to preserve food and work around livestock. It hurts when a cow steps on your foot. Both sets of grandparents had farms.

All this background and it STILL was terribly difficult for me at times. I live near two schools. When the dismiss school bell rings and scores of young people pour out of the buildings, I really wonder how they will function. Most of them don't have an appetite to pick up skills. From my vantage point, that aptitude for learning is what greatly contributed to my being here. Let's not forget the care of God. Providence is real.

So you're into jewelry making? (among all your other skills).

So maybe your daughters wear earrings that you make?

 

[MotherFirefly]

welcome!

I have been reading a bit of your conversation, nosy right? But you seem to be an intelligent, and to me inspiring, woman and mother. I look forward to seeing you around the forum.

God bless you and your family!

 

[Farine]

So you're into jewelry making? (among all your other skills).

So maybe your daughters wear earrings that you make?

Hahahahahaha! That's the FUNNY part! Because it's MOM who made IT.. it's not that cool....

I don't mind. It's more to the point of illustrating technique and capacity than actually having them USE it. There may come a time after this phase when they will think it is cool..

 

[Farine]

welcome!

I have been reading a bit of your conversation, nosy right? But you seem to be an intelligent, and to me inspiring, woman and mother. I look forward to seeing you around the forum.

God bless you and your family!

Naw.. not nosy. Thank you so much for your kind words and welcome! I can say I am an original... and clearly you are unique too. That will make any conversations we have automatically one of a kind. I look forward to getting to know you more too

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Welcome to CF

 

[Farine]

Welcome to CF

Thank you! I like your signature block. It's beautiful! Thank you for the welcome.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hahahahahaha! That's the FUNNY part! Because it's MOM who made IT.. it's not that cool....

I don't mind. It's more to the point of illustrating technique and capacity than actually having them USE it. There may come a time after this phase when they will think it is cool..

Well, okay! yes, I understand that your daughters like many teens and young ppl prefer to buy their earrings from Claires and piercing parlors, etc., instead.