Hello from a Newbie

[Blackice]

Hello! I have been searching for sometime for a sort of support forum for my wife and I. We both were lifelong Adventist, born, raised & married in the church. We left the church about 2 years ago, and have since been attending a couple of dynamic non-denominational evangelical churches in the area. It is unlikely that we will ever officially join any of these churches however. Even though we have split with the church we did not do so for doctrinal reasons. Well that a brief introduction as to why I am here.

 

[Avonia]

Hello! I have been searching for sometime for a sort of support forum for my wife and I. We both were lifelong Adventist, born, raised & married in the church. We left the church about 2 years ago, and have since been attending a couple of dynamic non-denominational evangelical churches in the area. It is unlikely that we will ever officially join any of these churches however. Even though we have split with the church we did not do so for doctrinal reasons. Well that a brief introduction as to why I am here.

Welcome Blackice! We are glad you are here.

I would encourage you to explore may religious and spiritual communities in your quest.

Many blessings!

 

[Blackice]

Thankx Avonia, we have explored quite a bit up to this point, which is why we are here.

 

[sentipente]

Hello! I have been searching for sometime for a sort of support forum for my wife and I. We both were lifelong Adventist, born, raised & married in the church. We left the church about 2 years ago, and have since been attending a couple of dynamic non-denominational evangelical churches in the area. It is unlikely that we will ever officially join any of these churches however. Even though we have split with the church we did not do so for doctrinal reasons. Well that a brief introduction as to why I am here.

I wish you the best. Since I am no where close to upstate NY I will have to support you here. After all, the fellowship here can be closer than some people experience when they go to church.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Hello! I have been searching for sometime for a sort of support forum for my wife and I. We both were lifelong Adventist, born, raised & married in the church. We left the church about 2 years ago, and have since been attending a couple of dynamic non-denominational evangelical churches in the area. It is unlikely that we will ever officially join any of these churches however. Even though we have split with the church we did not do so for doctrinal reasons. Well that a brief introduction as to why I am here.

welcome Blackice, Cool name

 

[JonMiller]

I don't think the perfect church exists. Worshiping with fellow Christians is the best part, I think, whether you agree with them or not.

If they get between me and God, I move on. Although the last time I went to church the last generation perfection being preached (by a visiting pastor) raised my hackles a bit.

JM

 

[Blackice]

I don't think the perfect church exists. Worshiping with fellow Christians is the best part, I think, whether you agree with them or not.

If they get between me and God, I move on. Although the last time I went to church the last generation perfection being preached (by a visiting pastor) raised my hackles a bit.

JM

Yeah I feel like we need to continue worship, after all Paul says "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together." But I also do not want to be a church hopper, just because someone annoys me. I move on because of what the church at large means to me, there will always be annoyances in the local congregations.

BTW: Sorry to disagree with you, but I do adhere to the truth of being able to attain to a state of perfection.

 

[JonMiller]

I don't think it is possible to attain a state of perfection

What raises my hackles is that is what God is looking for. Jesus saved the thief on the cross, and he died a couple of hours later. There was no perfecting there. God saves us as we are, he is looking for us as we are. While as we follow Christ we will become changed and more like Him, that isn't a requirement (perfection) that he places on us. He isn't waiting to return for people to be perfect.

edit: And I have never changed churchs/etc over someone annoying me. I have mostly gone more to a church which I feel is worshiping God and good for my spiritual growth, and gone less to churches which I feel do little or which things are preached that I disagree strongly with.

JM

 

[Blackice]

Sorry Jon I guess I misunderstood you on the changing churches thing.

No perfection is not required for salvation (that would be salvation by works). But in theory at least (since I know of no one there) it must be possible. I achieve that state when every second of every minute of every day of my life I am listening to and obeying the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Does that mean I don't need Christ? Absolutely not!! I am still a sinner, though no longer sinning, and still therefore need His atoning blood.

 

[sentipente]

Maybe we don't understand what perfection means. I think we forget that there are storms on Jupiter.

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah I feel like we need to continue worship, after all Paul says "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together." But I also do not want to be a church hopper, just because someone annoys me. I move on because of what the church at large means to me, there will always be annoyances in the local congregations.

BTW: Sorry to disagree with you, but I do adhere to the truth of being able to attain to a state of perfection.

In that case - There is a Fundamentalist Adventist section here that you might enjoy.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I don't think it is possible to attain a state of perfection

What raises my hackles is that is what God is looking for. Jesus saved the thief on the cross, and he died a couple of hours later. There was no perfecting there. God saves us as we are, he is looking for us as we are. While as we follow Christ we will become changed and more like Him, that isn't a requirement (perfection) that he places on us.

Being saved does not equal - sinless perfection.

being saved does not equal - the 2nd coming.

Being saved happens the moment a lost sinner comes to Christ.

The issue of sinless perfection or what is needed for the 2nd coming (for example preaching the gospel to all the world) is not impacting your salvation that you can not be saved until some magic event takes place after you are born-again.

Rather the problem with sinless perfection is "perseverance of the saints" it is the Matt 16 problem that Peter has where Christ responds to him "get thee behind me satan".

The problem is that God is leading down a road that goes THrouGH Rev 15 instead of AROUND it. As you have received Christ Jesus - so WALK in Him. The "challenge" is not to reach forward to what you WILL do - it is to reach back to what you DID do in accepting Christ - in full surrender, in your first love. Sinless perfection is merely the idea of NOT letting go of that trading it so quickly for what Paul calls "the sin that does so easily besset us" in Heb 12.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[JonMiller]

I don't understand you or you don't understand me because your post doesn't make sense as a response to mine.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

Also, we don't know what his issue is with the SDA church. This forum is for former SDAs, and those who don't find themselves as being 'traditional' SDAs under the definition found in the other forum. (classified as progessive or moderate here)

We are a big tent.

JM

 

[Avonia]

The "challenge" is not to reach forward to what you WILL do - it is to reach back to what you DID do in accepting Christ

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Please clarify. Thanks in advance.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

But in theory at least (since I know of no one there) it must be possible. I achieve that state when every second of every minute of every day of my life I am listening to and obeying the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Does that mean I don't need Christ? Absolutely not!! I am still a sinner, though no longer sinning, and still therefore need His atoning blood.

I believe that, if I offend in one point, I am guilty of all. Do you define "perfection" as being equivalent to "guilty of all?"

BFA

 

[Blackice]

BFA - absolutely, if you offend in one point you have offended in all, Jesus was quite clear about that. I'm a little confused as to what you mean by defining perfection as being guilty of all?? When I offend in one point that makes me a sinner and guilty of all, that however does not change or alter what I said above.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA - absolutely, if you offend in one point you have offended in all, Jesus was quite clear about that. I'm a little confused as to what you mean by defining perfection as being guilty of all?? When I offend in one point that makes me a sinner and guilty of all, that however does not change or alter what I said above.

I conclude that, if I am guilty of all, I am not perfect.

It seems that you conclude that, if you are guilty of all, you are therefore perfect.

I am trying to understand how we have reached such different conclusions. This issue gets to the heart of what you mean by the term "perfect."

BFA

 

[BobRyan]

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Please clarify. Thanks in advance.

In Col 2 we have the instruction "As you have received Christ so walk in Him".

In Rev 2 we have the command to "return to your first love".

When the lost sinner comes to Christ -- it is only through "surrender" not through "more rebellion".

In 1Cor 10 Paul points out "no temptation has befallen you but such as is common to man and God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond that which you are able and will with the temptation provide the way of escape".

This is the "escape" that the lost sinner finds in coming to Christ -- he turns to Christ and receieves the New Birth - receives pardon and embraces repentance.

It is precisely that - which enables the victory that Paul speaks of in Romans 6.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Being saved does not equal - sinless perfection.

being saved does not equal - the 2nd coming.

Being saved happens the moment a lost sinner comes to Christ.

The issue of sinless perfection or what is needed for the 2nd coming (for example preaching the gospel to all the world) is not impacting your salvation that you can not be saved until some magic event takes place after you are born-again.

Rather the problem with sinless perfection is "perseverance of the saints" it is the Matt 16 problem that Peter has where Christ responds to him "get thee behind me satan".

The problem is that God is leading down a road that goes THrouGH Rev 15 instead of AROUND it. As you have received Christ Jesus - so WALK in Him. The "challenge" is not to reach forward to what you WILL do - it is to reach back to what you DID do in accepting Christ - in full surrender, in your first love. Sinless perfection is merely the idea of NOT letting go of that trading it so quickly for what Paul calls "the sin that does so easily besset us" in Heb 12.

in Christ,

Bob

The point I am getting at here is also one that ByFaithAlone is objecting to in the 1844 and IJ thread.

It is that issue regarding Rev 15 when Christ ceases the Heb 7 and 8 work that He is doing in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

in Christ,

Bob