Hello All (looking for Arian brothers & sisters)

[Proselyte of Yah]

Hi all, just wanted to say a hello to peeps here.

Hoping to connect with some like-minded Christians here who may share the same or similar theological stances to myself.

I did attempt to post an introduction in the "No Creed-Restorationist" section here (as I hold those values), but unfortunately I am unable due to my forum restrictions (as I am non-trinitarian), which I respect/understand as per the forum rules.

However, thought I'd just say hi here regardless to make myself a bit more known to people here, and to put out a little flag for people who might also be looking to find and connect with those who share similar beliefs.

I'm a non-denominational Arian, Restorationist-minded Christian.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi all, just wanted to say a hello to peeps here.

Hoping to connect with some like-minded Christians here who may share the same or similar theological stances to myself.

I did attempt to post an introduction in the "No Creed-Restorationist" section here (as I hold those values), but unfortunately I am unable due to my forum restrictions (as I am non-trinitarian), which I respect/understand as per the forum rules.

However, thought I'd just say hi here regardless to make myself a bit more known to people here, and to put out a little flag for people who might also be looking to find and connect with those who share similar beliefs.

I'm a non-denominational Arian, Restorationist-minded Christian.

Welcome to CF. We probably won't share the same circles but am interested in learning why some Christians do not believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh.
Blessings.

 

[Proselyte of Yah]

Welcome to CF. We probably won't share the same circles but am interested in learning why some Christians do not believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh.
Blessings.

Hey Maria. I appreciate that.

It's obviously a very sensitive subject (as it should be). But many do end up calling one another a blasphemer, heretic, etc, sadly (on both sides).

I'd had quite a few fair discussions about it, including some deeper theological and philosophical discussions on the matter with Catholic theologians. And I do understand and respect people's positions on it, and can certainly see why people hold to the doctrine.

I wrote on my website a couple of articles on my reasoning, as fairly as I could, where I've raised scriptures which can support both sides of the debate, whilst also explaining why I have the views I do .

 

[Nithavela]

Hello, and welcome to christian forums.

A quick suggestion: as I understand it, arians do not follow a religion that is compatible with the Nicene creed. As such, afaik, your faith tag might be incorrect and should be "other faith" or something similiar.

I could be wrong, of course, but I suggest you check with a moderator to clear things up before any misunderstandings happen.

 

[Proselyte of Yah]

Hello, and welcome to christian forums.

A quick suggestion: as I understand it, arians do not follow a religion that is compatible with the Nicene creed. As such, afaik, your faith tag might be incorrect and should be "other faith" or something similiar.

I could be wrong, of course, but I suggest you check with a moderator to clear things up before any misunderstandings happen.

Hey Nithavela. My faith tag was actually already changed by the admins of this site to what it is based on my theological stances.

Originally, I had "Non-denom".

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Hi all, just wanted to say a hello to peeps here.

Hoping to connect with some like-minded Christians here who may share the same or similar theological stances to myself.

I did attempt to post an introduction in the "No Creed-Restorationist" section here (as I hold those values), but unfortunately I am unable due to my forum restrictions (as I am non-trinitarian), which I respect/understand as per the forum rules.

However, thought I'd just say hi here regardless to make myself a bit more known to people here, and to put out a little flag for people who might also be looking to find and connect with those who share similar beliefs.

I'm a non-denominational Arian, Restorationist-minded Christian.

Welcome!

I salute your candor while disagreeing with your theology.

 

[rturner76]

If the vote had gone Arius' way we would all be non-trinitarian.

 

[Proselyte of Yah]

If the vote had gone Arius' way we would all be non-trinitarian.

It's a very interesting history for sure. And far less one-sided than people would think. The councils were very often split in half. The Arian controversy lasted for 60 years (after 325), and the church actually declared Arianism Orthodox several times, and excommunicated the Athanasians, but it would then swing back to the other direction back and forth, until Emperor Theodosius I came along and sealed the Trinity as a permanent teaching at the second Council of Nicea (381), and executed anyone who didn't agree.

According to Richard Rubinstein's book "When Jesus became God", this was largely because he believed Arianism was the cause of Rome losing its wars (as he was persuaded to believe in the Trinity), and so he purged it and made it 100% illegal to adhere to, as opposed to it being a clean "theological agreement" voted on by the church majority.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi .. and welcome.

You might enjoy this debate-video on the topic of the Trinity.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

Hi and welcome.

 

[Proselyte of Yah]

Hi .. and welcome.

You might enjoy this debate-video on the topic of the Trinity.

Indeed yes, I have seen those videos. I watched the whole series of the debates between Greg Stafford and others.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I think hope most of us are interested in discussing unorthodox beliefs of this nature. It becomes a problem when someone starts pushing their view and denouncing an opposing view. Not that the OP comes off that way at all. Hopefully the rest of us will follow suit.

 

[Proselyte of Yah]

I think hope most of us are interested in discussing unorthodox beliefs of this nature. It becomes a problem when someone starts pushing their view and denouncing an opposing view. Not that the OP comes off that way at all. Hopefully the rest of us will follow suit.

I agree.

I haven't come to cause arguments, only to find like-minded Christians to myself. Of course, if people have questions, I'm then happy to answer them (as I have done).

 

[Ceallaigh]

I agree.

I haven't come to cause arguments, only to find like-minded Christians to myself. Of course, if people have questions, I'm then happy to answer them (as I have done).

Finding like minded might be difficult here. But I'm certainly interested in understanding your perspective. I remember on a forum a long time ago there was a member who certainly seemed to be a devoted Christian, but was non-trinitarian. He said it ruined the evangel (or something like that). And I've always wished I had talked to him about it more to understand his point of view. Hopefully I'm wrong and someone like minded will join in.

 

[Ceallaigh]

If the vote had gone Arius' way we would all be non-trinitarian.

I'll have to look into that.

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed yes, I have seen those videos. I watched the whole series of the debates between Greg Stafford and others.

Mike Winger also has a pretty interesting discussion on the Trinity --

The Trinity: Can We Defend it Biblically? - YouTube

 

[Proselyte of Yah]

Mike Winger also has a pretty interesting discussion on the Trinity --

The Trinity: Can We Defend it Biblically? - YouTube

Appreciated.

I do want to make it clear, that I have studied the topic for a number of years and have seen pretty much all arguments and defences on the subject. I've studied Catholic theology and philosophy, the scriptures, the church fathers, ancient language, manuscripts, history and so on.

And I have debated for many hours on many nights with Catholic and Protestant friends who are deeply dedicated to theology.

I've argued for both sides of the debate, for and against the Trinity/Deity of Jesus. I've come to my conclusions based upon the amalgamation of my study, knowledge and personal reasoning in all these areas. But I do highly respect the opposing arguments and frameworks and see why people would support them.

I've written my thoughts and studies on these things on my website (link in my profile), if anyone is interested in why I hold my views (as I know some people do want to at least "understand" Arian thinking, even if they don't agree, which I can respect).


I also have considered Modalism, which I found to be the weakest of the Christologies, and I consider Unitarianism as well, but I disagree with them however, as they deny Christ's pre-existence. So it gets lonely as an Arian sometimes, as it seems we're a minority on both sides of the fence, lol.

 

[rturner76]

So it gets lonely as an Arian sometimes, as it seems we're a minority on both sides of the fence, lol.

I think there is a remaining fear of even talking about Arianism because of how harshly the Church dealt with them. The same for the Cathars. They had a reasonable theology and were vegetarians, not wanting to offend the commandment "thou shall not kill." The Church hunted down and killed any "heretic" in times past so there is a stigma against anything that could be deemed "heretical." Though according to that logic, all Protestants would be considered heretics. The Church is much more tolerant now. They even say that you don't have to be Catholic as long as you are baptized.

I actually broke away from the church altogether when I was young and became a Muslim because I saw the trinity as pagan. I have a different view now. I used to work for the YMCA and the triangle in the Y on the graphic stands for body, mind, and spirit. That is how I see the Lord. A human can't live without one of the three, just like a triangle can't stand without all three sides. In the same way, being created in God's image, he also has a body, mind, and spirit that all make up the total of one God.

That is also unorthodox theology because the Bible does not describe God that way but it solved the riddle for me about how can one be three without being three. I know it's goofy but the triangle helped me understand a triune God better.

 

[Proselyte of Yah]

That is how I see the Lord. A human can't live without one of the three, just like a triangle can't stand without all three sides. In the same way, being created in God's image, he also has a body, mind, and spirit that all make up the total of one God. .

Yes, I'm familiar with this mind set.

The thinker, the thought and the thinking. The three hypostases of God being like the human mind, which consists of a thinker (conscious person), a thought or "image" in one's head, and then "actively thinking".

With God but perfect and eternal, divine simplicity would state that all three of these things would be perfectly co-equal and one, as God is one, and is not dependent on any outside source, be that random thoughts, external learning, etc.

Therefore, the thinker, thought, and thinking would be one, as God perfectly knows and thinks of himself, which becomes his perfect self-image and eternal act (for God cannot gain or lose anything).

I grasp the concept clearly.

Of course, I don't agree with it, as I feel these are external eisegetical Greek/Gnostic concepts applied "upon" scripture and its internal terminology/Jewish language.

I can accept or entertain the idea of God's mind or being as "three things that make one" just as a human's being works like that, but in this framework or "definition" of the Trinity, I would then simply say that I believe in a Jesus who is not one of the parts of these three things, but is a being who is the literal son and worshipper of this "triune-mind God".

I think there is a remaining fear of even talking about Arianism because of how harshly the Church dealt with them.

I agree. I think it's been burned into the social consciousness as something that is wicked and terrible, and therefore, most groups that adopted it were ones ran by very open minded people, or crazy people who start cults, because they're the ones brave enough and "liberal enough" shall we say, to stand against long held traditions in the face of persecution and being considered an outcast.

So it creates a stigma and pattern of behaviour. Anything "forbidden" by the masses is often indulged by people who are rebellious in nature, even if that thing isn't exactly "bad". But because of this, it creates a paradigm where these alternate views are usually found in "deviant groups", who often may hold other strange beliefs or practices.

So it's about trying to make sure not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[BobRyan]

Appreciated.

I do want to make it clear, that I have studied the topic for a number of years and have seen pretty much all arguments and defences on the subject. I've studied Catholic theology and philosophy, the scriptures, the church fathers, ancient language, manuscripts, history and so on.
..
I've argued for both sides of the debate, for and against the Trinity/Deity of Jesus. I've come to my conclusions based upon the amalgamation of my study, knowledge and personal reasoning in all these areas. But I do highly respect the opposing arguments and frameworks and see why people would support them.

you might be interested in this forum

Exploring Christianity

there may be a few there are that are already taking your particular POV