hell?

[fishing]

Leaving account; sorry! Thanks for the help everyone! God bless

 

[Harry3142]

fishing-

Welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you with us.

There's an old saying concerning hell: "Those who go to hell have to climb over the cross of Christ to get there." That describes the foundation of Christianity. Our trust for eternal life doesn't lie in whatever we can accomplish, but rather in what God himself has already accomplished on our behalf:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

The righteousness that we need in order to have salvation is a righteousness that we cannot earn as a salary or purchase as an asset. It is God's own righteousness. And this righteousness he is willing to give as a free gift to all who will accept the sacrifice of his Son as the perfect atonement for our sins. What we cannot earn or purchase, God has seen fit to give us freely.

One question which comes up is, "What exactly does 'atonement' mean?" The best way to answer that question is to refer back to the annual sacrifices made on The Day of Atonement, including why those sacrifices were made. We find the description of the ceremony involving those sacrifices in Leviticus 16:1-27.

The priest chose 4 animals; there was 1 bull, 2 goats, and 1 ram selected for the sacrifice. On that day the entire community gathered around the altar, including the priest's own household.

First the bull was sacrificed. Its blood was the cleansing agent for the sins which the priest and his household had committed during that year. Then one of the goats, chosen by lot, was sacrificed. Its blood was the cleansing agent for the sins which the community had committed during that year.

However, the second goat was kept alive. After sacrificing the bull and the first goat, the priest would then lay his hands on the head of that goat, and while his hands were there he would recite all of the sins which he, his household, and the community had committed during that year, thus transferring those sins to the goat. It was then driven into the wilderness, taking the sins of all those who had participated in the ceremony with it. Afterwards the ram was offered as a burnt offering.

And the reason for this annual sacrifice was not to keep the people from sinning. As people they knew that this was impossible. Instead, it was a ceremony which atoned for their sins, cleansing them of those sins and taking the sins away from their community.

But these were the imperfect sacrifices which Jesus perfected via his accepting all the roles. He accepted the role of the sacrifice itself, with his blood being the perfect cleansing agent for all our sins. He took on his own head the sins of all who are willing to accept him as our atoning sacrifice, and has taken those sins 'into the wilderness'. And he has accepted the role of the perfect priest, and has himself taken into The Holy of Holies that is not made with human hands his own blood as the perfect atonement for the sins of all mankind:

First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.(Hebrews 10:8-14,NIV)

I hope this helps you understand a little better the foundation of our faith. God bless-

 

[fm107]

Hi Fishing!!

It's lovely to hear that your seeking after God because scripture says:

Acts 17:27
God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Matthew 7:7
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

The Bible tells us God is love and we know from John 3:16 that he loved the world so much that he gave his one and only son.

Romans 5:7-8
Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

No, one can possibly question God's love for all mankind. He paid the ultimate price by giving his son, and the Lord Jesus paid the highest cost - his own life.

But the thing is this, God isn't only love, he is also a Just and Holy God (see short clip)...

Street Preaching 8 Dec 09 - YouTube

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one

There is no good person except Christ, we need to realise our sinful condition before a Holy God before we can get the cure.

 

[fishing]

Thank you all.

 

[fm107]

If your still unclear or unsure about something, do ask! Or if we have missed something!!

We are always happy to help!

 

[fishing]

Well I guess I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that many people may have just not heard the Gospel, or are pressured by different cultural expectations, so they don't really come to know the Word. I understand that it is only through Jesus that we can know God.

Also, sin machine, if you could elaborate, I would appreciate it.



opengate07, thanks so much for your links. The song was incredibly moving and keyway is exactly the sort of resource I was looking for.

 

[fm107]

The name of Jesus is probably the one word in the whole world that everyone has heard of, let's face it. You don't have to travel very far to hear of this man, either sadly being cursed or being spoken about.

Or, think about it like this, who hasn't heard of America? Supposedly a Christian Nation.

Secondly, missionaries have travelled into the far corners of the Earth, e.g. the Amazon and into Africa, right into the deep parts where the have preached to isolated tribes and that still happens even today.

But let's pretend someone has never heard of the name of Jesus. The Bible says creation shouts that there is a God.

Psalm 19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

And the scriptures I posted previously tell us that if we are genuine about wanting to know God and if we are willing to acknowledge our sins and humble ourselves before him, he will make himself known to us.

God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4) so IF someone hasn't heard of him and he genuinely wants to know who God is and to have a relationship with him, God can make himself known to him through be it a dream, a vision, an angel or even by sending a missionary to that area to preach - examples of these can be found in the Bible. There are so many ways God can make that happen.

God sees men for who they are, he knows their hearts and wants men to escape Hell but most, sadly, are not willing to give up their sins and follow him. They rather "live life to the full," supposedly, but in the end, they will lose it. And if you think about it, "living life to the full" means finding short-term happiness in a bottle. They have no real peace. True peace can only be found in Christ.

God bless you.

 

[parsley]

People tend to equate "intellectual" with anything we have already confirmed as tangible and visible. That's awfully limiting in a vast universe where were are just dust specks that expire every 80 years.

If we went with those limits, that would mean intellectualism confined itself to the safety of a cave. God's history and capabilities would fit into the 2,000 pages.

We have been given information in the simplest of terms, that help us treat each other civilly on earth. We also get a grasp that God is loving, dislikes abuse of power, has terms for us that we are part of His family and forgiven...but there is so much more to Him.

the second goat was kept alive. After sacrificing the bull and the first goat, the priest would then lay his hands on the head of that goat, and while his hands were there he would recite all of the sins which he, his household, and the community had committed during that year, thus transferring those sins to the goat. It was then driven into the wilderness, taking the sins of all those who had participated in the ceremony with it.

(-:

many people may have just not heard the Gospel, or are pressured by different cultural expectations, so they don't really come to know the Word

There are some amazing stories of people who have had encounters with God, without any missionaries. Probably our prayers increase this phenomenon.

Visions of Jesus appearing to Muslims?

I have heard this happen in remote jungle tribes, inuit tundras, and with children whose parents were agnostic. God still tries to reach people.

 

[Bible2]

sin machine said in post 4:

Hell Is A Pagan Myth

Actually, hell is a scriptural fact. There are two literal hells, one temporary and one eternal. The temporary hell, called Hades in Greek (Luke 16:23) and Sheol in Hebrew (Psalms 86:13), is where the souls of unsaved people go when they die, and where they're tormented by flame (Luke 16:23-24). Before Jesus' first coming, Hades was also where the souls of saved people went when they died, but the part of Hades for the saved was a place of comfort (Luke 16:25).

After Jesus fulfilled the gospel by dying for our sins on the Cross and rising from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), he went to Hades and preached the fulfillment of the gospel to the souls there (1 Peter 3:19; 1 Peter 4:6) and then drew the souls of obedient believers there up with him when he ascended into heaven (Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 12:22-24). Since then, the souls of obedient believers go directly into heaven to be with Jesus when they die (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8, Revelation 6:9-11).

At Jesus' second coming, he will bring with him from heaven the souls of all obedient believers who have ever died (1 Thessalonians 4:14), and their bodies will be resurrected into immortality at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53). They will then reign on the earth with Jesus for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). After the thousand years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-10), all unsaved people of all times will be resurrected out of Hades and judged (Revelation 20:12-13) and cast into the eternal hell, called the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15, Revelation 21:8), where they will be tormented along with Satan and his fallen angels in fire and brimstone forever (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11). This eternal hell is also called Gehenna in Greek (Luke 12:5, Mark 9:45-46) and Tophet in Hebrew (Isaiah 30:33).

Tophet was also the name of a place in ancient times called the valley of Hinnom (2 Kings 23:10), just outside the southern wall of Jerusalem (Joshua 15:8). "Gehenna" literally means "the valley (ge) of Hinnom". Just as the ancient Tophet/Gehenna was outside the wall of ancient Jerusalem, so the eternal Gehenna, the lake of fire, will be just outside the wall of New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8) on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8). Saved people will go forth from New Jerusalem to witness the eternal torment of the unsaved in the lake of fire (Isaiah 66:24, Mark 9:46, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11).