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Der Alte

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Obviously so. I couldn't agree more.
Self deprication soundes good comming from you. I didn't know you had it in ya.

Here are more scripture for you to ignore. Here are twenty six (26) passages from the O.T. which refer to יהוה/YHWH, paired with verses in the N.T. which identify Jesus as יהוה/YHWH
[1] Isa 40:3 ¶ The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD [יהוה], make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

N.T. reference.
Matt 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. [Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4, John 1:23]

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[2] Ps 8:1 ¶ <<To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.>> O LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

N.T. reference.
Matt 21:15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
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[3] Ps 68:18 You have ascended on high; you have carried away captives; you have taken gifts in the form of men, Yes, even the stubborn ones, to reside among them, O Jah God." ("Jah" is an abbreviated form of the name Jehovah.)

N.T. reference.
Eph 4:7-10: "Now to each one of us undeserved kindness was given according to how the Christ measured out the free gift. Wherefore he says: 'When he ascended on high he carried away captives; he gave gifts in men.' Now the expression 'he ascended,' what does it mean but that he also descended into the lower regions, that is, the earth? The very one that descended is also the one that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might give fulness to all things."

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[4] Mal 3:1 ¶ Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; ] of hosts.

N.T. reference.
Luk 1:76 And thou, child, [John] shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord [Jesus] to prepare his ways;

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[5] Isa 10:33 Behold, the Lord, the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be hewn down, and the haughty shall be humbled.

N.T. reference.
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
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[6] Isa 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;]: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

N.T. reference.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him [the Lord Jesus vs. 9] shall not be ashamed.

1 Pet 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
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[7] Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] shall call.

N.T. reference.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [Jesus vs. 9] shall be saved.
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[8] Isa 45:23 I [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; vs. 21, 24] have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

N.T. reference.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, [Christ, vs. 10] every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Philip 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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[9] Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth:for in these things I delight, saith the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] .

N.T. reference.
1 Cor 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. [Christ, vs. 30]
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[10] Num 16:5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.

N.T. reference.
2 Tim 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
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[11] Ps 130:8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

N.T. reference.
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
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[12] Ps 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.

N.T. reference.
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
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[13] Ps 45:6 ¶ Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

N.T. reference.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
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[14] Ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end

[15] Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation [&#1497;&#1513;&#1473;&#1493;&#1506;&#1492;] /Yeshuah] shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

N.T. reference.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, [[Jesus/&#1497;&#1513;&#1473;&#1493;&#1506;] /Yeshua, vss. 2, 5, 8, 9] in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
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[16] Ps 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

N.T. reference.
1 Pet 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
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[17] Isa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

N.T. reference.
1 Pet 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: [Christ, vs. 16]
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[18] Zech 12:10 And I [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

N.T. reference.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
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[19] Jer 17:10 I the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

N.T. reference.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
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[20] Ps 62:12 Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.

[21] Isa 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

[22]Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] the first, and with the last; I am he.

[23]Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

[24]Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

[25] Isa 62:11 Behold, the LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation [&#1497;&#1513;&#1493;&#1506;&#1492;/Yeshuah] cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

N.T. reference.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, (Isa 40:10, 62:11), to give every man according as his work (Ps 62:12, 34:8) shall be.
13 I [Jesus/&#1497;&#1513;&#1493;&#1506;/Yeshua] am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (Isa 41:4, 44:6, 48:12)
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[26] Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. . .
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

N.T. reference.
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. (Is 6:10)
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. (Isa 6:1)​
And OBTW that is a total of 62 scripture which address or refer to Jesus as God.
 
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Der Alte

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Son of Israel

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Deralter, you throw scripture around, then ADD your twisting touch. You are a terrible expounder of scripture. Always adding your superstition into it. All the scriptures are beautiful. Your twist upon them that people live forever tortured by God is blasphemy. You should cancel teaching and listen to what God says. You would do well to be a student before ever thinking to teach. It will be quite plain then that the wicked DIE.

You should know, that I was taught your same disgraceful manner of reading scripture. When I got rid of my bias and let God speak and not go BEYOND His words, then I see clearly quite a different picture than what YOU say.

Goodbye.
 
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Son of Israel

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And OBTW that is a total of 62 scripture which address or refer to Jesus as God.

Of course Jesus is God.
I'm glad you are realizing that.

(Eph 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(Eph 4:6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

the Name of this One Lord God is Jesus.

Here is that same person in prophecy;

(Isa 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

No more adding your word "three" that you seem to just love to add to everything.
 
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Pythons

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Of course Jesus is God.
I'm glad you are realizing that.

(Eph 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(Eph 4:6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

the Name of this One Lord God is Jesus.

Here is that same person in prophecy;

(Isa 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

No more adding your word "three" that you seem to just love to add to everything.

That's Modalism S.O.I., which is heretical.

"In my Father's house are many mansions"

"until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom"

"wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

"make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."

When you said previously that the Holy Spirit was "God's"....
...Like you would say YOUR TEMPER got the better of you.
...I knew it was as bad as I feared.

But then again when a person hypes soul sleep in 99 out of 100 times...
...It ends up the person is an advocate of Adventist theology.

Adventist churches being Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, WWCOG, SDA, and other less known splinter factions.
...Are you maintaining that the above is simply Jesus talking about Himself in the 2nd person positive?

If I tell you that I'm going to take you to my Dad's store in your mind....
...That means I'm going to take you to my store?
 
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Der Alte

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Of course Jesus is God.
I'm glad you are realizing that.

(Eph 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(Eph 4:6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

the Name of this One Lord God is Jesus.

Here is that same person in prophecy;

(Isa 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

No more adding your word "three" that you seem to just love to add to everything.

Please tell me when God/&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; changed his name to &#1497;&#1513;&#1473;&#1493;&#1468;&#1506;/Jesus?
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] is my name for ever, and this [&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492;] is my memorial unto all generations.​
This is still part of "forever" and we are part of "all generations!" And no &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; is not the same as &#1497;&#1513;&#1473;&#1493;&#1468;&#1506;. Although &#1497;&#1513;&#1473;&#1493;&#1468;&#1506; means "&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; is salvation."

A more correct translation of Isaiah 9:6 is "father (originator) of eternity." Check any Lexicon, Thepohoric names which begin with "Abi" are translated "father of."
 
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Der Alte

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Deralter, you throw scripture around, then ADD your twisting touch. You are a terrible expounder of scripture. Always adding your superstition into it. All the scriptures are beautiful. Your twist upon them that people live forever tortured by God is blasphemy. You should cancel teaching and listen to what God says. You would do well to be a student before ever thinking to teach. It will be quite plain then that the wicked DIE.

You should know, that I was taught your same disgraceful manner of reading scripture. When I got rid of my bias and let God speak and not go BEYOND His words, then I see clearly quite a different picture than what YOU say.

Goodbye.

Nonsense! I twisted NOTHING and added NOTHING! I listed sixty two passages of scripture with NO, ZERO, NONE commentary of my own. All I did was highlight certain words in the passages. And OBTW there is no such thing as an ex-Trinitarian. Nobody has ever explained to me how someone can have a life altering encounter with the king of king, Lord of Lords, walk with him for any length of time then suddenly realize he is the wrong Jesus.
 
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Pythons

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Genesis 1: 29 "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;"

That Scripture makes it tough on Modalism as does the following Scripture...
...As well as a host of others!

Matthew 3: 16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

It's an unfortunate that folks, in their feverish lust to throw out Sacred Tradition...
...Never realize that those Traditions protect and serve what it to be believed and held as Faith.

This is why nearly every person who advocates soul sleep and annihilationism also promulgates....
...Disturbing teachings such as Michael the archangel as Christ / Christ could have screwed up and God would have annihilated Him.
...etc, etc, etc.
...That the Trinity is pagan and therefore false.

Generally, the people who advocate the above blow a lot of smoke when it's asked if they are thological Adventists....
...Adventist churches being; JW's, Christadelphians, WWCOG, SDA's and a few other less known splinter groups.

However, because the various Adventist denominations are having their cards called...
...The members are attempting to cloak their memberships in these denominations.
...By hiding behind Faith Icons at CF, which are associated with belief in the Trinity.

So, naturally, when someone asks a question about hell in a thread the theological Adventists who have dumped their actual icons...
...Start to promulgate their soul sleep theory.
...And like clock-work when I ask them if they hold other Adventist doctrines.
...All I get is what's Adventist? Go find your Adventist, etc.

Anyone wanting to read over this thread can witness the progression of how it happens.....
...And it happens over and over again.
 
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Son of Israel

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That's Modalism S.O.I., which is heretical.

"In my Father's house are many mansions"

"until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom"

"wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

"make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."

When you said previously that the Holy Spirit was "God's"....
...Like you would say YOUR TEMPER got the better of you.
...I knew it was as bad as I feared.

But then again when a person hypes soul sleep in 99 out of 100 times...
...It ends up the person is an advocate of Adventist theology.

Etc, etc, etc...
...Are you maintaining that the above is simply Jesus talking about Himself in the 2nd person positive?

If I tell you that I'm going to take you to my Dad's store in your mind....
...That means I'm going to take you to my store?

Lol, you are quite new to scriptures aren't you Pythons? You handle them like a snake, fitting name. In time, you will learn as Jesus speaks as the obedient Son, and the other times when He speaks as the Father. But it is certain He isn't your Holy Spirit yet.
Bye now
 
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Pythons

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Lol, you are quite new to scriptures aren't you Pythons? You handle them like a snake, fitting name. In time, you will learn as Jesus speaks as the obedient Son, and the other times when He speaks as the Father. But it is certain He isn't your Holy Spirit yet.
Bye now


So, allow me to make sure I'm understanding you S.O.I.
...You are claiming that there is ONE entity called God who has adopted three different "roles"...
...Roles being Father, Son & Holy Spirit.
...But it's the same Divine Person in each case.
...Because in your view there is ONLY one Divine Person.

Therefore you believe that God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit are NOT separate Persons which make up what we know about God but instead it's the SAME "Person" who reveals Himself in different modes whch are identified in Scripture as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Do I have that right?

Hmmm, did you just change your faith Icon?
 
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JESUSIAM

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Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. -1 Corinthians 1:20,21
 
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Son of Israel

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Please tell me when God/&#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; changed his name to &#1497;&#1513;&#1473;&#1493;&#1468;&#1506;/Jesus?

Lol. Ridiculous questions after ridiculous remarks. Did Jesus come in the Name of the Lord or did He not?

(Mar 11:9) And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:

A word to the wise Der alter, He won't come to you until YOU receive HIM in the NAME of the LORD.

(Luk 13:35) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

What is the Lord's Name? Kind of a problem for someone with 3 different Lords in a 3 headed monster, but good luck with it.

Bye now
 
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Pythons

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Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. -1 Corinthians 1:20,21

What's the understanding you bring to this discussion Jesusiam?
...Do you believe that a single entity showed Himself by three modes?
...Those modes being Father, Son & Holy Spirit?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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What's the understanding you bring to this discussion Jesusiam?
...Do you believe that a single entity showed Himself by three modes?
...Those modes being Father, Son & Holy Spirit?
What does that have to do with the topic of "Hell" :confused:
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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Lol. Ridiculous questions after ridiculous remarks. Did Jesus come in the Name of the Lord or did He not?

(Mar 11:9) And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:

A word to the wise Der alter, He won't come to you until YOU receive HIM in the NAME of the LORD.

(Luk 13:35)Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, untilthe timecome when ye shall say, Blessedishe that cometh in the name of the Lord.

What is the Lord's Name? Kind of a problem for someone with 3 different Lords in a 3 headed monster, but good luck with it.

As I said there is no such thing as an ex-Trinitarian if you had ever been a Trinitarian you would have known that real Christians do not believe in a three headed anything.

Right, Jesus came in the name of the Lord. What is your point? David came against Goliath in the name of YHWH Tsabaoth, YHWH of hosts. You claim that God's name is now Jesus, when did he change it?
1Sa 17:45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Pythons

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Now, all I know is that I believe !!!

This topic is about "HELL", is it not !!!

Do you believe the Scriptures teach "soul sleep" & "annihilationism"...
...So that there is no such thing as Hell as taught by historic Christianity?

Do you believe that the dead "don't know anything" and remain in that state until the Resurrection of the body?

One thing you can bank on - answer that and I'll have the answer as to my other question.
 
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