Hell is a correctional jail

[LJSGM]

There are also many who are rich in the eyes of the world who are rich in faith.

Do all men love God before He calls them? Once He has drawn, once He gives the gift of repentance, once we are instructed... then we love Him.

Yes, and it is a choice now isn't it? We are not FORCED to love him.

I actually wouldn't call it 'force' either, He has great powers of persuasion, and knows how to soften a heart. All men aren't believer's now, only those who are the firstfruits. The firstfruits are the promise of the harvest.

1 Corinthians 15


23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him


Christ IS the firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15


20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Are you reading it? Why does it say especially of believers when all will be believers eventually anyways. It singles them out. I think it's misinterpretation here.

As I said I didn't use the word 'force'. It wasn't only one little verse with the word 'draw'. He gives us over to our own will for His own good purposes. That doesn't mean He can't override that same will 'when' He chooses.
Can you deny the convicting power of the Holy Spirit in drawing those whose wills are against Him.. while we were yet sinners?

well, yes, the Holy Spirit is powerful to convict, but perhaps it just shows how hard hearted men can be that they can still resist the draw of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, I agree, we do have freewill in 'working out' our salvation. That is the basis of what we build on our foundation, and everything not of Him gets burned up.

Especially men, since it only mentions burning them up and not anything else (except perhaps the physical earth as well in the end).

We have the choice of whether to obey or disobey, that is not in regards to our initial salvation.

How do you know that it's not exactly in regards to our salvation? You do realize that is what the scriptures proclaim?

 

[LJSGM]

Even though we disagree on things, LJSGM, I love your gentle spirit that comes through in your posts!

I try

sometimes I sound harsher then I mean to

 

[Tavita]

Yes, and it is a choice now isn't it? We are not FORCED to love him.

No. We're not forced 'after' being saved. We cannot possibly love Him before we are saved.

1 Corinthians 15
23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him

Christ IS the firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15

20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

(Jam 1:18 NASB) In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.

(Rev 14:4 MKJV) These are those who were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, as a firstfruit to God and to the Lamb.

Are you reading it? Why does it say especially of believers when all will be believers eventually anyways. It singles them out. I think it's misinterpretation here.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, LJSGM.

Jesus Christ has already redeemed every person in the world, and we are a kind of firstfruits (the new creation), in this age, in this lifetime, it says 'especially of believers'.

well, yes, the Holy Spirit is powerful to convict, but perhaps it just shows how hard hearted men can be that they can still resist the draw of the Holy Spirit.

That makes it sound like men's hard hearts are more powerful than God. That He is not omnipotent but has to bow to the whim of man.

Especially men, since it only mentions burning them up and not anything else (except perhaps the physical earth as well in the end).

In these verses it shows that it's men's works that will be burned up, not the men themselves.

1Co 3:11 For any other foundation can no one lay than the one being laid, who is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
1Co 3:13 each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
1Co 3:14 If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

In Revelations at the Great White Throne judgment, we find mankind is judged by their works (judged by the Law)...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.

How do you know that it's not exactly in regards to our salvation? You do realize that is what the scriptures proclaim?

What do the scriptures proclaim? That men have freewill? Nowhere is it written that man has freewill. Everywhere is it written that it is His will that ALL men be saved. Who can oppose His will? If God is omnipotent and sovereign, then a man's hard heart is no obstacle for Him.

 

[spiritlead]

No. We're not forced 'after' being saved. We cannot possibly love Him before we are saved.





(Jam 1:18 NASB) In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.

(Rev 14:4 MKJV) These are those who were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, as a firstfruit to God and to the Lamb.




I'm not exactly sure what you mean, LJSGM.

Jesus Christ has already redeemed every person in the world, and we are a kind of firstfruits (the new creation), in this age, in this lifetime, it says 'especially of believers'.




That makes it sound like men's hard hearts are more powerful than God. That He is not omnipotent but has to bow to the whim of man.





In these verses it shows that it's men's works that will be burned up, not the men themselves.

1Co 3:11 For any other foundation can no one lay than the one being laid, who is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
1Co 3:13 each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
1Co 3:14 If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

In Revelations at the Great White Throne judgment, we find mankind is judged by their works (judged by the Law)...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.



What do the scriptures proclaim? That men have freewill? Nowhere is it written that man has freewill. Everywhere is it written that it is His will that ALL men be saved. Who can oppose His will? If God is omnipotent and sovereign, then a man's hard heart is no obstacle for Him.

Tavita, I agree with everything you are saying, but it has only been about six months since God opened my eyes, how long for you?

Also,95% of the rest of the church believe in hell, agree?

 

[Tavita]

Tavita, I agree with everything you are saying, but it has only been about six months since God opened my eyes, how long for you?

Also,95% of the rest of the church believe in hell, agree?

Hi spiritlead,

Yeah, it's only been about six months for me too! How good is that!!

Yes, roughly 95% believe in eternal torment/torture. They consider us heretics, spiritlead.

I believe in hell, but I don't believe that anyone has been judged already and suffering fire and torture in it. I believe hell to be the resting place of the dead. Then, at the judgment hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, but the dead will have been resurrected first to stand before the judgment seat.

 

[spiritlead]

Hi spiritlead,

Yeah, it's only been about six months for me too! How good is that!!

Yes, roughly 95% believe in eternal torment/torture. They consider us heretics, spiritlead.

I believe in hell, but I don't believe that anyone has been judged already and suffering fire and torture in it. I believe hell to be the resting place of the dead. Then, at the judgment hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, but the dead will have been resurrected first to stand before the judgment seat.

Have you read any of L Ray Smith

 

[spiritlead]

Hi spiritlead,

Yeah, it's only been about six months for me too! How good is that!!

Yes, roughly 95% believe in eternal torment/torture. They consider us heretics, spiritlead.

I believe in hell, but I don't believe that anyone has been judged already and suffering fire and torture in it. I believe hell to be the resting place of the dead. Then, at the judgment hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, but the dead will have been resurrected first to stand before the judgment seat.

I'm going to really on fire church, i don't think i should leave church over doctrine of hell do you?

 

[Tavita]

I'm going to really on fire church, i don't think i should leave church over doctrine of hell do you?

No, I don't think you should leave unless you feel God is telling you to. If you're happy to be there then that is good.

 

[spiritlead]

No, I don't think you should leave unless you feel God is telling you to. If you're happy to be there then that is good.

Well, its good to know others believe in the spiritual lake of fire, its been refreshing to know that loved ones and freinds that might not serve God in this life aren't going to burn forever, and they'll be in eternity with us, even if they might be gate keepers, at least we'll see them

Its also opened up more revelation and realization of the kingdom being now in us and among us

 

[spiritlead]

No, I don't think you should leave unless you feel God is telling you to. If you're happy to be there then that is good.

Thanks T, Beautiful kids, by the way, they look happy!

 

[Tavita]

Its also opened up more revelation and realization of the kingdom being now in us and among us

Yep! I've found that to be so true too!

 

[Ben12]

I speak of the unveiling of Jesus Christ as if it pertains to The Book of Revelations; but it is not; it is the whole Bible. That veil in my temple has been torn from top to bottom; and because of that the unveiling of Jesus Christ is what my walk in Christ is all about. When eternalhellist speak of the veil being torn back; it is in the letter not the living reality.

2 Cor 3:12-18
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech-- 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord. NKJV

Psalm 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel. Moses went up that mountain by Himself; all deep people of God need to come to a place where they can face God’s glory by them selves; Moses knew that the children of Israel could not climb those high place where God’s glory was. Eternalhellist see God’s acts; but not His ways.

Eternalhellist are contained by their own fear and their bondage of condemnations towards themselves and the Hugh majority of God’s people who they pretty much have given up on; billion have gone to the grave already without Christ. They do not have the total freedom to hear that deep quiet voice within all of us so they cannot move freely from glory to glory; because their eyes are still veiled (they are spiritual blind or example would be the OT priest (type of Melchisedec) who cannot have a blemish in their eye. The word "blemish" used in connection with the eyes is from the Hebrew CALLUS denoting a disease of the eyes, namely, cataracts. Cataracts have obscured the vision of more people throughout the ages than any other affliction of the eye.

Rev 3:18

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. KJV


Lev 21:16-23
6 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. 18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, 19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, 20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; 21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. 22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. KJV

 

[Ben12]

I guess I am the old timer; I left Baby lon in 1975. Best thing I ever did.

 

[Tavita]

I guess I am the old timer; I left Baby lon in 1975. Best thing I ever did.

Hey Gramps... can you give us the low down on Baby lon? I mean why you don't write it as Babylon.

 

[Ben12]

Hey Gramps... can you give us the low down on Baby lon? I mean why you don't write it as Babylon.

It is all in the spelling; it just silly. It speaks of the milk for babes not the meat; Baby goats; not mature sheep that know His voice. God uses Baby lon and is a golden cup in His awesome hands.

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

 

[Tavita]

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

OhMyGosh!!!

God wouldn't do a thing like that would He???

 

[Ben12]

OhMyGosh!!!

God wouldn't do a thing like that would He???

Notice it says ALL the earth.

 

[james415]

God uses Baby lon and is a golden cup in His awesome hands.

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is saying basicly the same thing here:

Habakkuk 2:16 You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed! The cup from the LORD's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.

 

[Ben12]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is saying basicly the same thing here:

Habakkuk 2:16 You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed! The cup from the LORD's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.

I agree. I like that; thanks I will put that in my ammo box.

 

[james415]

I agree. I like that; thanks I will put that in my ammo box.

Ammo box... ROFL

I put yours in mine...