Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Seeing the very hard line fact that we all bear the tempter or his own, absolutely.

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So you don't believe you are in the book of life? Because that's who that verse is directed at and who it applies to- not Satan or his angels. They are not in the book of life.

JulieB67 said:

So you don't believe you are in the book of life? Because that's who that verse is directed at and who it applies to- not Satan or his angels. They are not in the book of life.

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The Gospel:

Jesus saves all people
and
Condemns all devils to the LoF, forever

No more complicated than that, except when you realize the parties are overlapped in this current life

Then it's much easier to tell who is who. Those who promote our neighbors to burn alive forever are WHO?

Yes, denial is part of the plot

Love your neighbors can not and does not possibly equate to "loving neighbors as SELF" when condemning them to burn alive forever. Therefore the math is clear WHO is in charge in that particular LUMP

And likewise, those who can not confess to having evil present within them and can not condemn it are WHO?

Yes, same principle.

Studyman said:

I don't believe the first death that all men are raised from results in "ceasing to exist", as something is preserved in order to be raised. But I do believe what God tells me about this death.

Ecc. 9: 4 For to him that is joined to all the living "there is hope": for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living "know that they shall die": but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, "is now perished"; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ps. 146: 2 While "I live" will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day "his thoughts perish".

Is. 38: 18 For the grave "cannot praise thee", death "can not celebrate thee": they that go down into the pit "cannot hope for thy truth". 19 "The living, the living", he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

Ps. 115: 17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Adam and Eve are still in this death and will remain there, knowing nothing, praising no one, not loving nor hating, until the Christ comes back to raise them for judgment of their works. And if Christ doesn't ever come back, they will never be raised, at least according to Scriptures.



I'm not sure whether you are joking with me, or are just haven't really though out your preaching here. If I have an opinion, and I am sharing it with you, how is that interpreted as "I don't exist"?



Yes, God does say, "The Soul that sins shall die". Adam and Eve sinned, and they died, and are still dead. I too, will die, unless Jesus comes back pretty soon. Personally I am thankful that God is Patient and Longsuffering and has given me time to repent and bring forth works worthy of repentance. And I do "press towards the mark of the prize of the high calling of God which was in Christ Jesus. I'm not there yet, but trusting in His guidance I Labor that I might be accepted of Him.

Not sure what your points are here.



No, God didn't lie. He said, "The Soul that sins shall die". I have said and understand with all my heart that I will die because I have sinned. My Mom and Dad sinned and I watched them die. They are both dead and buried, just like David. And they will stay that way, until Jesus comes back to raise them from the dead.

I'm not sure how this understanding is based somehow on the believe that God lied, and I mis-interpreted His definition of being "dead". You seem a little bitter here. Is everything OK?




I believe what God inspired to be written in the Holy Scriptures, concerning death.

Gen. 3: 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Perhaps you might show me where I invented something about death that God didn't show me.


The Scriptures say the "Soul that sins shall die". And of a truth, Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Shadrack, Paul, Cornelius, James, John all have died.

Are you interpreting this verse to mean that God strikes you down dead the second you sin? Where did you receive this philosophy from? Abraham was 75 years old before God even called him. Are you saying that Abraham never sinned?




According to what is written in the Holy scriptures, a man must eat of the "Tree of Life" to live forever. Adam and Eve were not given the "right to the Tree of life" in their life on earth, even before their sin. According to the Christ of the Bible, the opportunity to eat of this tree is only given to to men "After Jesus returns". Here is the Spirit of Christ Himself, teaching us His Truth.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man "according as his work shall be". 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they "may have right" to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

There has been only ONE man to receive this right, to date, and I believe this is the Lord's Christ, the man Jesus.

Adam and Eve were not given the right.

Gen. 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, "to keep the way of the tree of life".

So clearly, according to what is written, Adam and Eve were not allowed to "put forth their hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

Neither was Abraham, David, Paul etc. Only after Jesus raises them from the dead, are they allowed to, or forbidden to "Eat and Live forever".

It's right there in your own Bible.



That is a popular religious philosophy promoted by this world's religious system, but that's not what God or His Son teaches in the Holy Scriptures. Paul even teaches that if Jesus doesn't come back, then there is no resurrection. If there is no resurrection, there is no life eternal.




" those ideas were invented by those who rejected the truth of the gospel and changed those awful parts thewy did not like to make them say something entirely different and thus make them pleasant and easy to accept."

The Jesus "of the bible" teaches:

Matt. 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, (Of their life on earth) the same "shall be saved". When Jesus returns with His reward.

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You have overloaded your reply with unrelated scriptures and gone off in different directions while failing to defend any of the doctrines you hold to.

Not sure how it is that you've never come across --- Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die".

God said, for "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die". They ate and they died on that day, according to God. But you deny they died so you reject what God said.

Gods Word says we are all born dead, but you say we are not, so again you reject what God says because it obviously doesn't fit your denomination's interpretation of Gods Word. So your teacher was either willing or unwittingly omitting key bible doctrines.

Then you attempted to make Ecc 9:4 something entirely different to what was written. You assumed it was referring to "death" as in the life after this earthly life, "the dead know nothing" doesn't ,mean those in the graves know nothing. How about the living dead right here and now, they know nothing because unbelievers are spiritually dead and thewy know nothing about the things of God.

You can just run with everything you read in the bible, as if it was some kind of cooking book with simple recipes outlined in plain English. Each Bible doctrine must be in perfect harmony with the rest of scripture, there must never be any contradictions. But what I read from you is consistent contradictions in your theology.

What do you suppose Jesus was talking about in ---
Luke 9:60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”

Here you are claiming the "dead" cease to exist" but Jesus is saying the dead can dig deep holes and bury their dead. Whom shall I believe, you or Jesus, since you contradict each other.

Why don't you list all the different meanings of the words "death" "die" "dead" and lets see if your interpretations are actually supported by the bible and not just your denominational views.

I'm not going to dump a truck load of scriptures to refute your interpretation, one should be enough but I have given your 3 or 4 so let me know if you need more

Jipsah said:

Lotta really dubious stuff in the Revelation, IMO. Kinda hard to reconcile our Lord sd we see him in the Gospels and epistles with the radically different person we see in the Apocolypse. The Savior of the World vs. the Exterminator of Humanity, Quite a jarring contrast.

Yo still have the same problem that all damnationists have with ECT; the assumption that everyone lives forever by default, Nowhere does Scripture say any such thing, Your lot find yourselves in the curious position of believing that God gives the damed the "gift" of eternal life so as to be able to torture them forever. We're told quite explicitly that the wages of sin is death, but central assumption of damnationism is that the damned Iive eternally in torment. One or both of those assertions must be untrue.

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The Lord Jesus Christ is the Almighty God, Creator and Sustained of everything that exists. Jesus created the lake of fire for the Devil and His Demons, but we see sinners joining them there as well.

Jesus is obviously not the Saviour of the whole world, He only came to save those the Father gave Him. We know this, because Jesus will cast the majority of mankind into hell.

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jesus didn't come to bring peace the world, why would He come to make peace with the Prince of this world (Satan). No He came as a sword, to pit son against father and daughter against mother. He came to divide the world, the result is we only have two kinds of people in the world, "the children of the Devil and Gods children. There's no "in between neutral" people in this war.

There is a raging war for your soul going on all over the world, never mind nuclear weapons, which can kill your body then have no further power over you, but fear God who can cast both body and soul into hell fire.

We can't wish hell away, just because it's too awful to accept, we can't force God to change His ways.

Jipsah said:

Then none of us is guilty of anything.

And neither decision can be said to have been made "of your own free will". I

Then we all do what we were designed/destined to do. Cool!

Which happens whenever God's will dictates

Kinda like saying that a software developer doesn't tolerate wehen his software does something he didn't tell it to do. But then his code can't do anything he doesn't tell it to do.

Cool, then we needn't worry about anything. Pure determinism, and nothing at all for which we can be either praised or blamed.
Everything is equally pointless. I think I'll have another beer. Come On You Lions!

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The Bible tells us that we all inherited a carnal sin nature from Adam, so we are sinners by nature. God doesn't cause anyone to sin, sinners sin because they're sinners.
The other problem sinners have is, they are absolutely powerless to change their state. They're actually dead in sin, and they remain dead in sin for all eternity, (that's not antihalation of cessation of existence), unless God quickens them to life and they are born again with a new Spirit.

Nobody has the power to change who they are, they may fool someone by hiding their nature, but it's doesn't take long before their ugly sin nature is exposed.

This "free will" or "free choice" theory is an illusion, just look at any unbeliever's lifestyle and you will see that they are enslaved and dominated by their sin nature, which they work hard to feed and try to satisfy, but it's never satisfied and it keeps crying out for more all the time.

Then if you look at a believers life, you find the person is actually free in Christ. They're not burdened with sinful pursuits, which take all of their time and money and energy. Believers don't worry or stress about anything because God has everything under full control.

You've heard the saying "there's no rest for the wicked". They can never truly rest because Satan is a hard task Master, an their sin nature demand everything. The sinner would never choose to serve Him and their own lust if they really had a free choice or free will

You have overloaded your reply with unrelated scriptures and gone off in different directions while failing to defend any of the doctrines you hold to.

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I was setting you straight concerning my belief that you are promoting to others..

"First of all, you're presuming that the words "death" or "dead" or "die", all mean annihilation or ceasing to exist in the Bible."

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I was showing you God's Inspired Words that I believe, which show that in "death", the kind all mortal humans come to experience, we cease to think, do anything or know anything. But as I said, something exists as God will raise up who I am, just as HE will raise up who Adam was, and judge them according to that which they had done, "before" this death.

It seems important to seek the understanding of "God's teaching" concerning the death that "ALL" mortal humans shall enter, for all have sinned, except One.

Dan1988 said:

Not sure how it is that you've never come across --- Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die".

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I believe in this perfectly. And in my view, God's prophesy shown to us here, has surely come to pass as both Adam and Eve did die, and remain dead just as God Promised them. I have no reason to question God concerning the moment this destiny was placed on them. Clearly it happened when they "Ate" that which God commanded them not to eat.

I'm not sure why you would imply that I never came across this, clearly my posts would inform you otherwise, had you read them..

Dan1988 said:

God said, for "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die". They ate and they died on that day, according to God. But you deny they died so you reject what God said.

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I believe what is written;

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and "they knew that they were naked"; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Clearly the "death" this God was speaking to, isn't the "death" you are speaking to. This is shown pretty clearly in the Scriptures I posted, that you judged as irrelevant.

Ecc. 9: 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Perhaps if you were to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and join yourself to this God, as Jesus promotes, you will come to be on the same page with Him concerning Adam and Eve. Of course, it is a choice you must make.

Dan1988 said:

Gods Word says we are all born dead, but you say we are not, so again you reject what God says because it obviously doesn't fit your denomination's interpretation of Gods Word.

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Can you show me the Scriptures where it is said that God is the God of the Dead, and not the Living? Please show me where God teaches in His Word that all human children are "born dead".

I am a student of of His Word, but I have never seen where Jesus is the Lord of the Dead, or that God is the God of the dead. Perhaps you might consider to start listening to the Jesus "of the Bible", and turn away from the religious system of this world.

John 8: 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye "believe not" that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

If they were already "dead", as defined by the Spirit of Christ that was in the Author of Ecclesiastics, then how can they "Believe" or "repent" or "turn to God"?

Clearly, if a man doesn't do these things, in the time a longsuffering, Patient and Merciful God gives them, after they sinned, they shall surely die.

As this same God teaches you, if you would just believe Him.

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21 "But if" the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

In your religion, isn't this good news? And who make this possible?

Dan1988 said:

So your teacher was either willing or unwittingly omitting key bible doctrines.

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My God isn't the God of the Dead, but the God of the Living. Your god creates dead people. I can say for certain that the Holy Scriptures do not represent your god.

Dan1988 said:

Then you attempted to make Ecc 9:4 something entirely different to what was written. You assumed it was referring to "death" as in the life after this earthly life, "the dead know nothing" doesn't ,mean those in the graves know nothing.

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Well I, and David, and Isaiah disagree with your religious philosophy. And in all due respect, the Spirit of Christ that inspired these Prophets teach me about death, this Christ died, but you have never died. So it seems to me that I would be better off Trusting the God that Inspired the bible, than to trust you or this world's religions you have adopted, given you don't believe the graves of this world are filled with dead people that don't even know they are dead.

Dan1988 said:

How about the living dead right here and now, they know nothing because unbelievers are spiritually dead and thewy know nothing about the things of God.

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"Living dead", God creates "dead people"! Are you actually listening to your own preaching here? If a person that is spiritually dead, can never "know anything" about God, then you, who you preach to the world was born dead, have no hope?

Dan1988 said:

You can just run with everything you read in the bible, as if it was some kind of cooking book with simple recipes outlined in plain English. Each Bible doctrine must be in perfect harmony with the rest of scripture, there must never be any contradictions.

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This is true.

Dan1988 said:

But what I read from you is consistent contradictions in your theology.

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Please understand that you have already miss-represented my beliefs and posts on a public forum. So it would be foolish to just ignore Scriptures, and take your word for it. Perhaps if you were to show me where my posts contradict my theology, this would be more helpful.

Dan1988 said:

What do you suppose Jesus was talking about in ---
Luke 9:60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”

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John 8: 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Luke 9: 59 And he said unto another, "Follow me". But he said, Lord, "suffer me first" to go and bury my father.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but "let me first" go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

So let these men who refuse to repent and turn to God, who will die in their sins, bury others who also refuse to repent, who will die in their sins.

But if these unrepentant men would humble themselves, while they are still alive, and "yield themselves" to God in repentance, and "Follow the Jesus" of the Bible, they will still die, but Jesus Promises to raise them from the dead, and give them the gift of eternal life.

Abraham was given the same instruction.

Gen. 12: 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of "thy country", and from "thy kindred", and from "thy father's house", unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. 4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

You might notice that Abraham didn't say, "Wait God", I will follow you, but let me first go back and honor my earthly father".

Instead of using a verse here and there to justify an adopted religion, perhaps you might consider turning away from the religion of your fathers, and Follow Jesus' instruction. "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness". And let this world's religious promoters bury this world's religious promoters.

Dan1988 said:

Here you are claiming the "dead" cease to exist" but Jesus is saying the dead can dig deep holes and bury their dead. Whom shall I believe, you or Jesus, since you contradict each other.

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Clearly, even my 12 year old grandson can see that these men were destined to death, and not already dead. Just as Jesus teaches, "You shall die in your sins". In your religion, Jesus was talking about men who refused to eat His Flesh, Yes? Men who have "No life" in them? And what of Jesus' Words to the rich man?

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but "if thou wilt enter into life", keep the commandments.

And concerning Lazarus;

John 11: 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Did the dead bury the dead here?

The problem and difference here between us is that you are here to justify your religion, and you cherry pick Scriptures for that purpose, as is clearly evident. While I, a no body, am seeking to know God, as Jesus wanted, that I might grow in the knowledge of God. To do this, it is imperative to consider "ALL" that is written.

Dan1988 said:

Why don't you list all the different meanings of the words "death" "die" "dead" and lets see if your interpretations are actually supported by the bible and not just your denominational views.

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I posted Solomons understanding of the death that befalls all men. I posted David's understanding and Isaiah's understanding. But they can't be used to support, defend or further your preaching that God created "dead" people. So you don't believe them.

According to God and Jesus, I can deliver myself from a Spiritual Death, by "Turning to God".

Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Paul taught the same thing;

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

But I only have this life in which to "Yield myself" to God. Because as it is written, "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." And "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

It seems prudent to study so as to know the truth about this death, VS. being "dead in trespasses and sins".

Dan1988 said:

I'm not going to dump a truck load of scriptures to refute your interpretation, one should be enough but I have given your 3 or 4 so let me know if you need more

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It seems you are pitting one verse of God against another to prove your "God creates dead people" philosophy. I'm hoping you might reconsider, but the choice is yours.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Jesus saves all people
and
Condemns all devils to the LoF, forever

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I asked if you a question and you sidestepped once again. That verse does not apply to Satan and his angels. We both know they have already been judged to the Lake of Fire. They are not in the book of life. So that verse does not even refer to them.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Those who promote our neighbors to burn alive forever are WHO?

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Not me. That's not my belief.