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So you don't believe you are in the book of life? Because that's who that verse is directed at and who it applies to- not Satan or his angels. They are not in the book of life.Seeing the very hard line fact that we all bear the tempter or his own, absolutely.
The Gospel:So you don't believe you are in the book of life? Because that's who that verse is directed at and who it applies to- not Satan or his angels. They are not in the book of life.
You have overloaded your reply with unrelated scriptures and gone off in different directions while failing to defend any of the doctrines you hold to.I don't believe the first death that all men are raised from results in "ceasing to exist", as something is preserved in order to be raised. But I do believe what God tells me about this death.
Ecc. 9: 4 For to him that is joined to all the living "there is hope": for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living "know that they shall die": but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, "is now perished"; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ps. 146: 2 While "I live" will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day "his thoughts perish".
Is. 38: 18 For the grave "cannot praise thee", death "can not celebrate thee": they that go down into the pit "cannot hope for thy truth". 19 "The living, the living", he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
Ps. 115: 17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Adam and Eve are still in this death and will remain there, knowing nothing, praising no one, not loving nor hating, until the Christ comes back to raise them for judgment of their works. And if Christ doesn't ever come back, they will never be raised, at least according to Scriptures.
I'm not sure whether you are joking with me, or are just haven't really though out your preaching here. If I have an opinion, and I am sharing it with you, how is that interpreted as "I don't exist"?
Yes, God does say, "The Soul that sins shall die". Adam and Eve sinned, and they died, and are still dead. I too, will die, unless Jesus comes back pretty soon. Personally I am thankful that God is Patient and Longsuffering and has given me time to repent and bring forth works worthy of repentance. And I do "press towards the mark of the prize of the high calling of God which was in Christ Jesus. I'm not there yet, but trusting in His guidance I Labor that I might be accepted of Him.
Not sure what your points are here.
No, God didn't lie. He said, "The Soul that sins shall die". I have said and understand with all my heart that I will die because I have sinned. My Mom and Dad sinned and I watched them die. They are both dead and buried, just like David. And they will stay that way, until Jesus comes back to raise them from the dead.
I'm not sure how this understanding is based somehow on the believe that God lied, and I mis-interpreted His definition of being "dead". You seem a little bitter here. Is everything OK?
I believe what God inspired to be written in the Holy Scriptures, concerning death.
Gen. 3: 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Perhaps you might show me where I invented something about death that God didn't show me.
The Scriptures say the "Soul that sins shall die". And of a truth, Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Shadrack, Paul, Cornelius, James, John all have died.
Are you interpreting this verse to mean that God strikes you down dead the second you sin? Where did you receive this philosophy from? Abraham was 75 years old before God even called him. Are you saying that Abraham never sinned?
According to what is written in the Holy scriptures, a man must eat of the "Tree of Life" to live forever. Adam and Eve were not given the "right to the Tree of life" in their life on earth, even before their sin. According to the Christ of the Bible, the opportunity to eat of this tree is only given to to men "After Jesus returns". Here is the Spirit of Christ Himself, teaching us His Truth.
Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man "according as his work shall be". 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they "may have right" to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
There has been only ONE man to receive this right, to date, and I believe this is the Lord's Christ, the man Jesus.
Adam and Eve were not given the right.
Gen. 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, "to keep the way of the tree of life".
So clearly, according to what is written, Adam and Eve were not allowed to "put forth their hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
Neither was Abraham, David, Paul etc. Only after Jesus raises them from the dead, are they allowed to, or forbidden to "Eat and Live forever".
It's right there in your own Bible.
That is a popular religious philosophy promoted by this world's religious system, but that's not what God or His Son teaches in the Holy Scriptures. Paul even teaches that if Jesus doesn't come back, then there is no resurrection. If there is no resurrection, there is no life eternal.
" those ideas were invented by those who rejected the truth of the gospel and changed those awful parts thewy did not like to make them say something entirely different and thus make them pleasant and easy to accept."
The Jesus "of the bible" teaches:
Matt. 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, (Of their life on earth) the same "shall be saved". When Jesus returns with His reward.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Almighty God, Creator and Sustained of everything that exists. Jesus created the lake of fire for the Devil and His Demons, but we see sinners joining them there as well.Lotta really dubious stuff in the Revelation, IMO. Kinda hard to reconcile our Lord sd we see him in the Gospels and epistles with the radically different person we see in the Apocolypse. The Savior of the World vs. the Exterminator of Humanity, Quite a jarring contrast.
Yo still have the same problem that all damnationists have with ECT; the assumption that everyone lives forever by default, Nowhere does Scripture say any such thing, Your lot find yourselves in the curious position of believing that God gives the damed the "gift" of eternal life so as to be able to torture them forever. We're told quite explicitly that the wages of sin is death, but central assumption of damnationism is that the damned Iive eternally in torment. One or both of those assertions must be untrue.
The Bible tells us that we all inherited a carnal sin nature from Adam, so we are sinners by nature. God doesn't cause anyone to sin, sinners sin because they're sinners.Then none of us is guilty of anything.
And neither decision can be said to have been made "of your own free will". I
Then we all do what we were designed/destined to do. Cool!
Which happens whenever God's will dictates
Kinda like saying that a software developer doesn't tolerate wehen his software does something he didn't tell it to do. But then his code can't do anything he doesn't tell it to do.
Cool, then we needn't worry about anything. Pure determinism, and nothing at all for which we can be either praised or blamed.
Everything is equally pointless. I think I'll have another beer. Come On You Lions!
You have overloaded your reply with unrelated scriptures and gone off in different directions while failing to defend any of the doctrines you hold to.
"First of all, you're presuming that the words "death" or "dead" or "die", all mean annihilation or ceasing to exist in the Bible."
Not sure how it is that you've never come across --- Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die".
God said, for "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die". They ate and they died on that day, according to God. But you deny they died so you reject what God said.
Gods Word says we are all born dead, but you say we are not, so again you reject what God says because it obviously doesn't fit your denomination's interpretation of Gods Word.
So your teacher was either willing or unwittingly omitting key bible doctrines.
Then you attempted to make Ecc 9:4 something entirely different to what was written. You assumed it was referring to "death" as in the life after this earthly life, "the dead know nothing" doesn't ,mean those in the graves know nothing.
How about the living dead right here and now, they know nothing because unbelievers are spiritually dead and thewy know nothing about the things of God.
You can just run with everything you read in the bible, as if it was some kind of cooking book with simple recipes outlined in plain English. Each Bible doctrine must be in perfect harmony with the rest of scripture, there must never be any contradictions.
But what I read from you is consistent contradictions in your theology.
What do you suppose Jesus was talking about in ---
Luke 9:60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”
Here you are claiming the "dead" cease to exist" but Jesus is saying the dead can dig deep holes and bury their dead. Whom shall I believe, you or Jesus, since you contradict each other.
Why don't you list all the different meanings of the words "death" "die" "dead" and lets see if your interpretations are actually supported by the bible and not just your denominational views.
I'm not going to dump a truck load of scriptures to refute your interpretation, one should be enough but I have given your 3 or 4 so let me know if you need more
I asked if you a question and you sidestepped once again. That verse does not apply to Satan and his angels. We both know they have already been judged to the Lake of Fire. They are not in the book of life. So that verse does not even refer to them.Jesus saves all people
and
Condemns all devils to the LoF, forever
Not me. That's not my belief.Those who promote our neighbors to burn alive forever are WHO?
I don’t think it’s a matter of corruption, but a matter of the imperial family using different images to convey the same thing, namely the history of their lineage, and in particular, God being born among them.There is good reason for you to think that way, but it is quite simple. Noah knew God and all of the things his ancestors passed down to him. His sons then carried that information as they spread across the known world. As normal with such things, the stories were corrupted, which increased after the Tower of Babel, but some things remained. You can find similarities in all myths and religions, because they all had the same original source. The story of the flood is the most obvious example. If you want to look at the results of many studies, you can find comparisons of Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Hindu, and Native American mythology on the Internet.
I've never sidestepped. You just continually fail to grasp a simple concept, which (again and again) is this:I asked if you a question and you sidestepped once again.
See above, rinse, repeat.That verse does not apply to Satan and his angels. We both know they have already been judged to the Lake of Fire. They are not in the book of life. So that verse does not even refer to them.
Reading the entire parable you would see this is a false statement. Mark 4:15 only applies to the ones that are by the way side-Mark 4:15 is a reality for everyone
I do not let myself off the hook. But there is a difference between a believer and non believer. Someone who has repented and hasn't repented. Not sinless but choosing to always strive to put the spirit over the flesh.and you let yourself, your own "sinning SELF" off the hook, as if you are the better sinner
Your argument is with the Word, not me. All throughout the bible it's always been life or death. And no, we aren't talking about Satan and his angels.(or be eternally annihilated as if that is better)
I'm not the one that ignores scripture. I take the bible as a whole. Something you refuse to do. And I'm sure after this post you will continue to do so.no matter how many times it's repeated. It can be set right in front of your eyes and you will continually fail to grasp it.
I don’t know what “the imperial family” is. However, there are four things going on:I don’t think it’s a matter of corruption, but a matter of the imperial family using different images to convey the same thing, namely the history of their lineage, and in particular, God being born among them.
Which Imperial royal family?I’m talking about the authors of the Bible. The Imperial royal family. They wrote most of the other religions we have. That’s why they have common themes.
No Word of God stops applying to everyone. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3Reading the entire parable you would see this is a false statement. Mark 4:15 only applies to the ones that are by the way side-
You merely use context in order to eliminate God's Words from applying to YOUYou continually refuse to see the context. And you continually ignore scripture all the while stating you accept every word.
UH, no. You only accept them as applied to someone else if you don't like themWe can accept every word of God all the while applying context to them.
All 4 groups apply to everyoneChrist starts every verse in this parable with the words - "And these" There are 4 groups. So no, 4:15 does not apply to everyone.
I do not let myself off the hook.
I accept every Word BUT the tempter in me does not. It's no different with you but you just can't differentiate and dominate. Nothing personal. It happens with everyoneI'm not the one that ignores scripture. I take the bible as a whole. Something you refuse to do. And I'm sure after this post you will continue to do so.
That pesky context if it only went away……You merely use context in order to eliminate God's Words from applying to YOU
Christians trying to eliminate God's Words remain under the influences of the adversaryThat pesky context if it only went away……
The adversary uses out of context verses to fool Christians.Christians trying to eliminate God's Words remain under the influences of the adversary
Nothing personal
I use context in order to rightly divide the Word. Something you continue to refuse to do. What you're basically stating is that Christ wasted his time separating them into groups with the parable in Mark chapter 4. Why didn't he just say these apply to everyone if that was certainly the case?? But he didn't. He specifically separated them. So why don't you? We are to follow his lead. You continue to make no sense with how you are reading and comprehending the Word.You merely use context in order to eliminate God's Words from applying to YOU
Well, you must be completely tied to the adversary since you throw out much of the Word in order to form your unbiblical doctrine. We can't just cherry pick verses. For example, you can't just keep posting one verse of a parable and purposely omit the rest.Christians trying to eliminate God's Words remain under the influences of the adversary
Here's a primer on "dividing"I use context in order to rightly divide the Word. Something you continue to refuse to do.
The separation was delineated in Mark 4:15. You know, the part where Satan SINS in everyone via theft (and apparently continues to do so as we all see only in part)What you're basically stating is that Christ wasted his time separating them into groups with the parable in Mark chapter 4.
He did. 3 times. Cited to you how many times now? Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3Why didn't he just say these apply to everyone
Uh, yes it was a direct statement from God in Christ multiple times. People just have a hard time wrapping their heads around it, because, you know...if that was certainly the case?? But he didn't.
No need to toss aside any Word of God for applicability to "me" or "you" or anyone else.He specifically separated them. So why don't you?
You zoomed off the conversation course is all that happened. You might at least take the time to actually understand where someone else is coming from. I understand most positions because I've probably been there already and I listen.We are to follow his lead. You continue to make no sense with how you are reading and comprehending the Word.
No doubt in my mind that the tempter operates in my mind. Only one of us seems to be able to tell the truth of the matter. Pity.Well, you must be completely tied to the adversary
That strawman ain't cutting it. But if you need it to think you are somehow "winning" it really doesn't matter to me if you think you win nor does it matter to me what you believe. I am largely into the rile up the enemies to the Gospel business. Love to antagonize the opposition movement and ready them for their eventual spear from God, you know, just to remind them what's coming.since you throw out much of the Word
Oh, you mean the "love your neighbors part?" Got it. I think that I may one up you there since I really believe God in Christ actually is The Savior of the world who will save ALL people. My bad?in order to form your unbiblical doctrine.
I accept Jesus' Standard of Parables. There are 3 parties to every parable. God/people/devils. IF any of the 3 are missing in people's understandings, the tempter has stolen from them and their understanding is VOID.We can't just cherry pick verses. For example, you can't just keep posting one verse of a parable and purposely omit the rest.
You might figure out I might not be here to actually convince you of anything. There's other things going on that you aren't seeing yet. But you might. God Willing. I actually do hope He Leads you to love ALL your neighbors as yourself. Which is my HOPE for all believers.And since you refuse to see context it's pointless to continue this.
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