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Discussion Hebrew Roots; error or something else?

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SpiritPsalmist

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I didn't say anything about Adam and Eve. Do you think they spoke Latin? LOL
 
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MoreCoffee

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Here is the Hebrews ref in full context:
...
Hebrews 9:1-22 ...

...
I have several bibles at hand and I read Hebrews from chapter one verse one to chapter thirteen verse twenty five more than once in the past few days. I am sure that one of my earlier posts quoted chapter nine almost in full. You are welcome to reply to it.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Snippet:
a small piece snipped off; a small bit, scrap, or fragment: an anthology of snippets.

I consider pieces of citations to be snippets. If you want to correct me on that, oh well.

Otherwise, you are correct that it is lazy for people to not check it out in full.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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I disagree with your commentary.
 
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MoreCoffee

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A number of the HRM leaders/preachers claim that "Jesus" is a pagan name. And some insist that a sacred name (by which they evidently mean Yeshua) must be used. There are in the ranks of the HRM those who teach that Rabbinic Jews ought not to be evangelised by Christians because they are apparently already chosen by God for salvation. With beliefs like that in the movement one hopes those errors are refuted in sermons and writing by those in the movement who reject those teachings.
 
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Frogster

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The Yeshua word is a power word, a clique word, an elitism code word. The odd thing is, gentiles are being subordinated, made to feel like second class people in this movement, not all, but me plenty are. There is a show on TV, where the host says believes that Jesus hears us better if we speak Hebrew. They try to also make like Paul made talits, not tents.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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I reject those teachings. I have heard about Jesus being a pagan name and while it does sound similar to the pagan god being referred to I'm not convinced. No, I've not heard that Yeshua is the supposed sacred name but I have heard that Yahwea is. I'm not convinced of that one either. I have heard Jewish musicians use that term in their songs though. I believe that Rabbinic Jews do need to be evangelized. They need to hear that Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah and took the place of The High Priest who never sleeps nor slumbers and He's sitting on the right hand of the Father, making intercession for us 24/7, as the writer of Hebrews testified. I have personally never heard these things taught by any of the Hebrew Roots Ministries that I listen to. We can't judge all HR people by the mistakes of others....just like we would not say that all Baptists are like the Westboro Baptists
 
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MoreCoffee

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Excellent. So why are you in the HRM?
 
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Messy

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Yes how is that nailed to the cross those two tablets of stone? You can't nail stone to a cross.

If He blotted out His own law then He can't condemn the unrepentant mocker and murderer next to Him on the cross. If that law is now gone then what is testifying against that man that he's a sinner? Where's the rules to judge him with?
The law is still here. If I open my Bible I can still read it. It isn't blotted out. Maybe the tablets of stone are even still in the Ark somewhere.
After Jesus died the law of sin and death was still in Paul's flesh.

The law is spiritual, you can't just kill that.
Romans 8
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

That law of sin and death in his members sounds more like a rule, a natural law: I have to sin, I can't obey God. Flesh can't please God.

I think here's that written thing testifying against us that had to be blotted out:

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
 
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MoreCoffee

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So your post is asking how the ministration of death and the ministration of condemnation written on stone can be nailed to the cross because it is stone?
 
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Messy

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So your post is asking how the ministration of death and the ministration of condemnation written on stone can be nailed to the cross because it is stone?
Yes that too, sorry I tend to visualise things and take it literal and then it makes no sense. Moses threw them on the ground so they broke but he couldn't red rid of the law that way. It's spiritual.
The 10 commandments still count otherwise all killers that keep rejecting Jesus have nothing to be judged by if there is no law anymore.
And you can't say that only counts for those who accept His offer because if you do and keep living in wilfull sin Paul says you won't inherit the Kingdom.

And we still have some written law that we have to obey.
Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.
 
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In one of my earlier posts I said:
The laws in the old covenant are good; nobody should say otherwise yet to return to them as a religious observance and as an obligation is to return to carnal ordinances about food and drink and days and feasts which cannot cleans one's conscience or make one good or make one pleasing to God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. And returning to the law as the way of life is to abandon the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord is himself the way that leads to eternal life.
So I do not get why your posts keep implying that nailing the law to the cross somehow means that it is bad and that Christians will be running riot in debauchery and immorality because they are nailed to the cross.
 
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Messy

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I don't think going to Dr Brown will do any good.
He knows more than I do and I haven't seen much christian teachers who could explain from the Old Testament the Trinity to rabbi's.


For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The key thing is the word telos (τέλος). Aside from the fact that it’s ludicrous to think that Paul would contradict himself within the very same letter of careful teaching to the Romans, we have to ask and what is that word telos mean?Telos can mean ‘end’, and telos can also mean ‘goal’.

We get the word telos in telescope and things like that. So what Paul is saying is not that Christ, the messiah, is the end of the law for everyone who believes, so once what you believe in him that terminates the law. No, rather the Messiah is the goal to which the torah is pointing so that everyone who believes in and can be justified.

He’s really saying the same thing in both of those places. By rightly understanding the role of the Torah, and by rightly understanding what the Torah teaches us about faith (being that it establishes the Torah), we see that the Messiah is ultimately the goal to which the Torah is pointing us. Once we take telos and instead of translating it ‘end’ we translate it with ‘goal’, the objection disappears.
 
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