Heavens gate

[Tellyontellyon]

I was watching this stuff on YouTube about a cult called Heavens Gate.. it was tragically sad.
I thought... did they really believe that..?

They seemed to draw on some Christian ideas but put them into some very far out narratives.

It seems that there are some Christian groups or groups that purport to be Christian that have some strange ideas.... Not all are necessarily dangerous or controlling... but their ideas are unconventional.

Questions:

What constitutes a cult?

How do you tell if you are getting involved in something dodgy?

Are they always abusive?

 

[Unqualified]

They either don’t believe Jesus is God or they don’t believe He is a man too. One or the other or both.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Yeah, in terms of those who claim to believe the Bible, there's a reasonably easy test to distinguish what can be considered Christian and what is a cult. Basically, any movement, group, or institution that denies the creeds is a cult — they may have grown into their own religions, but for the most part, they are cults and are completely divorced from Christianity.

For other faiths, religions, and philosophies, it gets very complex. Overall, though, I think we can define cults by cultish traits. So, for example, although Scientology may be a religion from a legal standpoint, I think they are a good example of what a cult is, judging by what they believe and practice.

 

[sandman]

I was watching this stuff on YouTube about a cult called Heavens Gate.. it was tragically sad.
I thought... did they really believe that..?

They seemed to draw on some Christian ideas but put them into some very far out narratives.

It seems that there are some Christian groups or groups that purport to be Christian that have some strange ideas.... Not all are necessarily dangerous or controlling... but their ideas are unconventional.

Questions:

What constitutes a cult?

How do you tell if you are getting involved in something dodgy?

Are they always abusive?

Isn’t a cult something that doesn’t fall into line with mainstream thinking?

How many churches were cults before they became accepted?

How long before those who don’t embrace LGBGQ etc, etc…. get labeled as a cult?

There are telltale signs of a cult when you are viewing from the outside. But for the most part people who are involved in them …don’t see it. If you don’t know the Bible, you can’t discern biblical truth from error. And Stockholm syndrome probably plays a large part for those in a controlling environment….

Religious people will give you a variety of cult markers based on their beliefs …that doesn’t mean they are right …. it’s just what they think based on their belief.

How do you get to the point of Heavens Gate…..I don’t know ….you certainly have to dispense with logic and reason …..and be willing to follow and swallow someone’s unconventional, irrational …yet persuasive oratory.

Edit ....Thanks to Mark

 

[Tolworth John]

What constitutes a cult?

A Christian cult has certain characteristics:-

They deny that Jesus is God or the Son of God.

They will have some other source of information that is more authoratve than the bible. Rather than talk about the bible they will be quoting this other book/source.

They often have a self appointed leadership that is not answerable to the membership.

They regard themselves as the 'only' true Christian church.

They isolate members from family, friends etc.

They discourage questioning and independant thinking.


Any group promoting these ideas is a cult, are they dangerous?
History shows that groups with charismatic authoritarian leaders are dangerous, not all like Jonestown but certainly in a sexual preditory and money hungry way.

Unfortunetly they prey on the ignorant Christian and nonchristian who are vunerable to being manipulated.

A large part of the answer in the Christian church is to educate the church members.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Isn’t a cult something that doesn’t fall into line with mainstream thinking?

How many churches were cults before they became accepted?

How long before those who don’t embrace LGBGQ etc, etc…. get labeled as a cult?

There are telltale signs of a cult when you are viewing from the outside. But for the most part people who are involved in them …don’t see it. If you don’t know the Bible, you can’t discern biblical truth from error. And Helsinki syndrome probably plays a large part for those in a controlling environment….

Religious people will give you a variety of cult markers based on their beliefs …that doesn’t mean they are right …. it’s just what they think based on their belief.

How do you get to the point of Heavens Gate…..I don’t know ….you certainly have to dispense with logic and reason …..and be willing to follow and swallow someone’s unconventional, irrational …yet persuasive oratory.

Not sure I follow your point there. Did you mean, Stockholm Syndrome? Helsinki Syndrome "describes a situation where the hostages will not cooperate with their captors." (my emphasis). What is Helsinki Syndrome? (scandinaviastandard.com)

 

[sandman]

Not sure I follow your point there. Did you mean, Stockholm Syndrome? Helsinki Syndrome "describes a situation where the hostages will not cooperate with their captors." (my emphasis). What is Helsinki Syndrome? (scandinaviastandard.com)

Yes, thank you Mark .......Posting when I am tired sometimes does not go well....I will edit.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Yes, thank you Mark .......Posting when I am tired sometimes does not go well....I will edit.

Boy am I familiar with that! Not to mention as I get older how much easier it is to be tired...

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I was watching this stuff on YouTube about a cult called Heavens Gate.. it was tragically sad.
I thought... did they really believe that..?

They seemed to draw on some Christian ideas but put them into some very far out narratives.

It seems that there are some Christian groups or groups that purport to be Christian that have some strange ideas.... Not all are necessarily dangerous or controlling... but their ideas are unconventional.

Questions:

What constitutes a cult?

How do you tell if you are getting involved in something dodgy?

Are they always abusive?

A cult would normally be defined as a church that has left the basic ideas about Jesus/God as defined in the bible. Even within church circles, there are ideas that are not biblical. As an example, although the church I attend is good on most levels with its adherence to scripture, it still ordains women preachers, an idea that was not supported by Paul in the bible. To be honest today, you will not find any church that 100% adheres to the bible, there are too many man-made traditions in all denominations. But to recognize a cult you need to study the bible, really there is no other way.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I was watching this stuff on YouTube about a cult called Heavens Gate.. it was tragically sad.
I thought... did they really believe that..?

They seemed to draw on some Christian ideas but put them into some very far out narratives.

It seems that there are some Christian groups or groups that purport to be Christian that have some strange ideas.... Not all are necessarily dangerous or controlling... but their ideas are unconventional.

Questions:

What constitutes a cult?

That's a question that sociologists and academics and many others debate quite frequently. The definition of a cult depends on who you ask usually.

I think that the term cult is best used formally when speaking of certain religious groups that meet certain criteria. A cult, in this sense, is a religious group that is predatory and exploitative. Rather than defining cults based on simply what they believe, a cult should be defined by its behavior. Red flags that something might be a cult include whether or not people in the group have freedom of choice--can they travel freely? Are they being forced or pressured to cut off contact with friends, family, and loved ones outside of the group or do they have freedom of association? Are people within the group allowed to ask questions? Does the group's leadership have some kind of accountability? These are relevant questions, and the more red flags that come up with these questions are asked the more likely it is that we are talking about a cult.

How do you tell if you are getting involved in something dodgy?

If that were a simple and easy question we wouldn't see people get caught up in dangerous and destructive groups. But keeping a watchful eye to look out for those kinds of red flags, and not ignoring them when they present themselves would be prudent.

Are they always abusive?

I think some level of abuse or at least predatory and exploitative behavior is what makes a cult a cult.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ligurian]

Questions:

What constitutes a cult?

How do you tell if you are getting involved in something dodgy?

Are they always abusive?

(1) "A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader."
cult --- thefreedictionary

(2) Matthew 23:8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master: Christ; and all ye are brethren.[9] And call no man your father upon the Earth: for one is your Father, which is in Heaven.[10] Neither be ye called teachers: for one is your Teacher: Christ.

(3) Depends on your definition of abuse.

 

[chilehed]

I was watching this stuff on YouTube about a cult called Heavens Gate.. it was tragically sad.
I thought... did they really believe that..?

Yeah, they really did, I remember it well. Applewhite had an open meeting in Jackson, Wyoming in July of '94, I was in town with my wife and saw a flyer full of loony stuff about aliens and chips in your brain. I wanted to go for a laugh, but no one was in so I missed it. I kept the flyer, and then in '97 when they OD'd I realized that it was the same group.

Their website is still active, there's one member who was left behind with a special mission and apparently he still believes it all.