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Heaven, Hell, and ...?

Bethwhite

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You have not received the Holy Spirit yet. Ask God for it. Then you will know the absolute Truth.

2Cr 1:22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2Cr 5:5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

He will teach you Himself.

Jhn 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
1Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
 
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juvenissun

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Thanks for the discussion. Before I spend more time on this, I like to ask one key question I have asked but got no answer:

Does the New Jerusalem equal to the Heaven? Does it have a boundary?
Who is going to live outside the city of New Jerusalem?
If you are allowed to live in the New Jerusalem, could you travel out of the Holy City? If you do, then WHERE are you going?

...
 
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Bethwhite

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Thanks for the discussion. Before I spend more time on this, I like to ask one key question I have asked but got no answer:

Does the New Jerusalem equal to the Heaven? Does it have a boundary?
Who is going to live outside the city of New Jerusalem?
If you are allowed to live in the New Jerusalem, could you travel out of the Holy City? If you do, then WHERE are you going?

The New Jerusalem is in God's garden at the throne of God in heaven, currently.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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As I have lived more, witnessed more I see fewer things in black and white. Not all Christians or religious people are righteous and not all non-Christians are evil.

I suspect there are more than two destinies. I have often wondered about persons of other religions. Perhaps there are a parallel destinies, such as a Christian heaven and a Muslim heaven. I'm speculating here because, obviously, these are matters of faith that cannot be imperically proven.

God sees a person's heart and I do not. I am at peace leaving judgment to God, believing he will be completely just and fair and merciful.

IMHO if people reject the salvation that God provided in Jesus then God our Father honors their choice. He is a gentleman. He will not over ride anyone's will. He has given the world plenty of time to chose Him.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Beth said it.

No, there is not an alternative and everyone has the Light light them from the time they come into the world, so as to seek, and find, or to deny, or ignore, or to blaspheme when they have sought and found -like Judas did.

But the doctrine of Sheol below earth and the Lake of Fire are first, totally recorded as foundational doctrines by Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam -which writing is "Canon" in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

In the Lake of Fire below, there are differing degrees of eternal punishment which are rewards for evil done in the body and which are based on the works of evil one did with full willful understanding against the Light that lights every man that comes into the world.

Christ is that Light, says John, and Christ is the Judge of all the secrets of every heart, and He will make them all manifest in the day of Judgment. No one will be cast into the Lake of Fire for our first father/Adam's sin, which is covered once, for all, but all will be judged for their own sins committed in their own bodies which they did against the Light/Christ -the Conscience given to every man that comes into the world and which they did not repent of, by conviction given to them by the Light that lights every man that comes into the world.

One does not need to know the Name of Jesus to sin against the Light, but when one seeks that Light, they find, and that Light leads them on. to know Christ.


No baby who died before coming to the age of understanding good and evil and doing either with will is accountable for any sins, but they did not get to live and earn eternal rewards for heaven, but indeed, they are saved by the Atonement -that includes, even, adults who are mental babies who are full grown and not accountable.

Just as there are differing degrees of rewards in the Lake of Fire, there are also differing degrees of rewards in eternal Life, and each man is judged for their own works of righteousness after they are saved, but no one can be acceptable for any righteous thing they have done if they are not saved, for God teaches us an unclean vessel, defiled and ruined, cannot bear the Glory, and must be remade to be able to bear the Glory.
No Adam person is clean and able to bear the Glory to present any acceptable offering to the Glory above, and will not even see His face forever -no matter how "earthly good" they may be in man's eyes.

All babies and mental babies will receive the regeneration of their body made in the image of Christ's New Man body, for the blood of the Atonement ransoms them back to God.


Also, heaven is not outside time and the creation. It is part of it, for in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and the heavens were powers that were stretched out between the divided waters of earth's creation, on day 2.
Above the heavens are half the waters of creation, and between the waters are three heavens.

Adam was placed in the Garden of Eden, which is in the third heaven, where the Tree of Life is, as the Scripture states.

The redemption of the Adam race by the Kinsman' Redeemer by the Atonement and adoption and regeneration makes us fit to be raised up again, to God's Garden, and earth below will be totally restored to that which it was made to be in the beginning.
God is not outside time, but the whole creation is separated form the Glory since the fall, when Adam was cast down to earth below fron Mount Eden, in heaven above.

Sheol below earth is only the temporary holding place for the dead who will be judged, but only the unrepentant go there since the Atonement.

The Lake of Fire, however, is outer darkness, and is the kingdom of darkness made for the Satans, where they will torment the fallen angels, the demons, and the unrepentant Adam souls, forever.


As to the word "Hell" it is from the Hebrew "Sheol", and is the hollow of earth.

As to the word "Hades", it is coined from the Hebrew word Qadesh [holy in an unclean way/temple prostitutes] at the time of the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah Genesis 14: In the Greek Septuagint it is already changed to Kades, and the H stuck. Q/H/K/hard C are all gutterals and since Bab-El, interchange language to language, and the "sh" is shortened to just "s".
Moses, writing of Abraham's pursuing the kings who raided Sodom and Gomorrah, gave the places Abraham chased them as the coined names they had come to have already -long before Greeks were anything but lowly shepherds [they invented nothing, and adopted all the cultures histories which they captured, later]

Gen 14:7 And they returned, and came to Enmishpat[well spring of judgment], which [is] Kadesh[קדש Qadesh ], and smote all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites, that dwelt in Hazezontamar.


קדש Qadesh -coined to describe a sodomite, from "holy" in an unclean way.

The English version of the Septuagint text, Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton
Gen 14:7 And having turned back they came to the well of judgment; this is Cades, and they cut in pieces all the princes of Amalec, and the Amorites dwelling in Asasonthamar.

Septuagint N.E.T translation:
Gen 14:7
And after they had turned back they came to the spring of judgment (this is Kades)...

So the coined word from Hebrew, coined at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, is now written "Hades", but that is its history -as Jude also states:

Jude1:6,7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Got buried
.....
 
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zeke37

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This question enhanced in my mind recently. So, I am seeking your opinion on it.

In Christian doctrine, we have a space called Heaven, and another space called Hell (the Lake of Fire).
If we count the current space, the earth and our universe, as a temporary one,
do we have the third, or more space beyond the Heaven and the Hell.

The meaning of this question is: Whether people would have a third place to go except the Heaven and the Hell?
when a person dies, they go immediately to heaven,
and they exist there in a heavenly body, like the angels have.

whether one is good or bad, one goes to heaven at death.

at Christ's Coming, He brings the righteous dead with Him,
and raises them here

about a 1000 years later, the lake of fire will be active for bad folks to be destroyed in
 
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zeke37

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How about a child died before he/she understood?
my pastor teaches that there is an age of accountability, different for each person.
before that age, they are considered innocent

How about people who never, or barely have a chance to hear the Gospel? I believe many Muslim and Buddhism people who probably never have a chance. And I believe there are many other such cases.
so do I.
those that died before Jesus,
were given the chance to believe upon Him when Jesus was in the grave.
He spoke to many, and many believed.

I believe that if a person is a good person, they WILL accept Christ when they are given the chance.
all of us will be given the chance. God is Fair
if we are not given it on earth, we shall be given it in heaven


How about people who have a very weak faith, such as seldom attend church worship. Can you say that they do not believe? I can not.

I can think of many cases in which people do not really believe, but do not either fight against the faith. They do not reject the Lord.

ya, and many of "us" are hypocrites too.
God has a plan to refine us, and weed out the bad apples

And if you like to, you may count in all those who got aborted and have never seen the light of day. Do they go to the Heaven?

Yes

If so, why don't we encourage abortion so they won't have the chance to go to the Hell?
don't be stupid
God told us to live and multiply, not kill to avoid a thing

Would God put them into the Lake of Fire? I am not sure, or I don't think so. But I don't think they are qualified to be in the Heaven either.
everyone goes to heaven at death...good and bad...
there's a place for good guys to wait, and there's a place for bad guys to wait.

judgement doesn't come until later.

what ever happens between their death and judgement
will include a fair chance at Christ, if they have not had it

Would it be correct if I say:

Jesus the Lord says: do this, then you will be with Me.

But He does not say: if you don't do this, then you will be put in the Lake of Fire.

I guess what the Lord really says is: If you do't do this, then you will not be with me. That does not mean the person will automatically be put in the Lake of Fire.

There could be a place where people do not see God (is that the definition of the Hell?), but is not as terrible as the Lake of Fire either. I think the Lake of Fire is a place for those who actively fight against God.

the lake of fire is not active right now.
it is the destination for all evil souls, at final judgement, at the end of the Mill.
it's right here on earth, and surrounds the camp of the Saints

This is not all my speculation. I do read this implication from the Bible. On the other hand, you do have to prove to me that there is no other (middle) place except the Heaven and the Hell. I don't really read this message anywhere in the Bible. And I do feel this understanding will cause some theological problems.
some theologians suggest there is a holding place for the fallen angels
that is a separate place than heaven.

but I think you are over thinking it a bit.
remember that judgement does not happen at death.
so the lake of fire is not an issue today.
not yet.

everyone goes to heaven, like Lazarus and the richman
 
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zeke37

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... on the NEW earth.

No no. Except God, nothing else is spaceless or timeless. Do not blindly use these two words. Remind you that the so-called "forever" shows a nature of TIME. If you have time, then you have space.
well, the new heaven and earth is right here on this current earth,
this earth is to be refined.
it's gonna be beautiful and abide forever!
 
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zeke37

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The way I read it is like this:

First, the person would be checked if his name is written on the Book of Life. If not, then he goes to the Lake of Fire. Clear and simple.

Second, if his name IS on the Book of Life, then he WILL NOT go to the Lake of Fire. However he would still be "judged" according to what he did in his life, which is all recorded in those "books". (how would this matter with his eternal life?)
good understanding

Now, the problem is: For those whose names are found on the Book of Life, are they all going to the Heaven? Or, do they simply escape the Lake of Fire, but not necessary go to the Heaven? (depends on his deeds)
they go to heaven, because that will be the only place left to go.
heaven will be remade on a refined earth.
what they are wearing in heaven, is dependant on their deeds
their station so to speak.

but all go to heaven
 
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zeke37

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you questioned her, so you don't have the Holy Spirit.
don't you know that?
lol.

her witness is the most disgusting kind.
she should be reported for questioning anyone's faith.

however, the point being given is correct,
which is that there is only one end result, and you can't get there without Christ
 
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juvenissun

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Thanks for the discussion. Before I spend more time on this, I like to ask one key question I have asked but got no answer:

Does the New Jerusalem equal to the Heaven? Does it have a boundary?
Who is going to live outside the city of New Jerusalem?
If you are allowed to live in the New Jerusalem, could you travel out of the Holy City? If you do, then WHERE are you going?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Thanks for the discussion. Before I spend more time on this, I like to ask one key question I have asked but got no answer:

Does the New Jerusalem equal to the Heaven? Does it have a boundary?
Who is going to live outside the city of New Jerusalem?
If you are allowed to live in the New Jerusalem, could you travel out of the Holy City? If you do, then WHERE are you going?
It is in heaven, and it is measured exactly in Revelation, by the angel.
 
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toolite

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This question enhanced in my mind recently. So, I am seeking your opinion on it.

In Christian doctrine, we have a space called Heaven, and another space called Hell (the Lake of Fire).
If we count the current space, the earth and our universe, as a temporary one,
do we have the third, or more space beyond the Heaven and the Hell.

The meaning of this question is: Whether people would have a third place to go except the Heaven and the Hell?


No.. There is a Heaven made of levels based on your growth.. There is torment which people call Hell.. Unless you factor earth.. souls do walk the earth.. lost souls those are ones people give an account for ghost or say they saw a ghost..

Glory To God
 
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