Healthcare, lets take one lie head on.

[reverend C]

as you may or may not know, the congressman vomiting "liar" in the joint session of congress voted for a bill that supplied money to emergency rooms to compensate them specifically for the treatment of illegal aliens.
oh, you didn't know that?

 

[Loudmouth]

so unless we can eliminate the possibility of fraud in any program or entity of government, it should be dismantled? say goodbye to everything that you hold dear now. this is an imbicilic argument, simply a way of throwing a wrench in anything obama. extrapolate this argument to a program you find valuable. apply the same standard. then simply say you're sorry for not thinking this through.

Exactly. If Congress proposes a bill to raise the drinking age to 25 the conservatives would argue that this bill actually supplies alcohol to those 24 and younger because it is easy to get a fake ID. Not only that, but this is a plan to force people to drink alcohol as part of a socialist new world order.

 

[Gawron]

Posted by the Reverend C:

“as you may or may not know, the congressman vomiting "liar" in the joint session of congress voted for a bill that supplied money to emergency rooms to compensate them specifically for the treatment of illegal aliens.”

So?

“oh, you didn't know that?”

I know it doesn’t matter to this discussion. The fact that illegal’s have access to emergency room care is not justification for allowing them access into the health care program. These are two separate and distinct issues. One cannot go into an emergency room and demand cataract surgery, or a coronary bypass, or a hip replacement, or a host of any other ailments. Emergency room care is for emergency treatment, so all of this discussion about the fact that an illegal can receive care in an emergency room and therefore there is no difference between that and Obama care is a canard.

Posted by Loudmouth:

“Which doesn't address the specific language which bans them from receiving federal dollars”

What you keep ignoring is that there is nothing in the bill which requires that the status of someone be verified or how that verification would take place. This leaves the door wide open, and Democrats are defending that door with all of their might. I have posted links to articles and commentary on this already. Add to this that if it is such an iron-clad, rock-solid, no quarter given ban, why is the question still being debated in the Senate? The House bill may currently state that illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits, but the statement is MEANINGLESS because the bill contains no verification mechanism to ensure that illegal immigrants will not receive benefits.

Posted by the Reverend C:

“so unless we can eliminate the possibility of fraud in any program or entity of government, it should be dismantled?”

Not what I said. You are attacking the argument you want instead of the one actually made.

Posted by loudmouth:

“The conservatives have argued that the bill will cover illegals. This is false.”

Your statement is false, given that the bill in question has not reached its final form, contains no language mandating verification of legal status or the mechanism for how that will be done, and allows for a bureaucrat to make the final decision concerning who will and who will not receive care based on a whole range of interpretative criteria.

Geez, even the non-partisan Congressional Research Service discussed information on this issue, citing some “troubling” information on the question of illegal aliens and access to Obamacare.

Quote:

CRS states that H.R. 3200 “does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens – whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently – participating in the [taxpayer-subsidized Health Insurance ] Exchange.”

While section 142(a)(3) of H.R. 3200 states the responsibility of the Health Choices Commissioner to administer the “individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits,” no specific enforcement mechanism is outlined in the bill.

CRS also notes that “there could be instances where some family members would meet the definition of an eligible individual for purposes of the credit, while other family members would not. For example, in a family consisting of a U.S. citizen married to an unauthorized alien and a U.S. citizen child, the U.S. citizen spouse and child could meet the criteria for being a credit-eligible individual, while the unauthorized alien spouse would not meet the criteria. H.R. 3200 does not expressly address how such a situation would be treated. Therefore, it appears that the Health Choices Commissioner would be responsible for determining how the credits would be administered in the case of mixed-status families.”

End Quote. Link: http://www.familysecuritymatters.org...pub_detail.asp

But, hey, I understand where you guys are coming from. Obama said it, therefore it has to be true.

 

[Loudmouth]

What you keep ignoring is that there is nothing in the bill which requires that the status of someone be verified or how that verification would take place.

I haven't ignored it. I agree that there should be enforcement of the bill. However, the argument over how to enforce the bill is a far cry from claiming that the bill supplies health care to illegals.

Your statement is false, given that the bill in question has not reached its final form, contains no language mandating verification of legal status or the mechanism for how that will be done, and allows for a bureaucrat to make the final decision concerning who will and who will not receive care based on a whole range of interpretative criteria.

And that bureaucrat is not allowed to fund illegals, as spelled out in the bill.

Geez, even the non-partisan Congressional Research Service discussed information on this issue, citing some “troubling” information on the question of illegal aliens and access to Obamacare.

Quote:

CRS states that H.R. 3200 “does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens – whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently – participating in the [taxpayer-subsidized Health Insurance ] Exchange.”

You are using the same quote mine as conservative talking heads. The lack of restrictions is for entering the health insurance exchange which is not an insurer. Here is the full quote:

"
Under H.R. 3200, a "Health Insurance Exchange" would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option. The Exchange would not be an insurer; it would provide eligible individuals and small businesses with access to insurers' plans, including the public option, in a comparable way. Individuals would only be eligible to enroll in an Exchange plan if they were not enrolled in other acceptable coverage (for example, from an employer, Medicare and generally Medicaid). H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens -- whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently -- participating in the Exchange. However, as discussed above, H.R. 3200 would only mandate that resident aliens would be required to have health insurance. [Page 4]"
Hannity falsely claims health bill doesn't have "any restrictions" on undocumented immigrants | Media Matters for America

Since the bill states elsewhere that illegals can not receive federal money they would not be eligible to enroll into the public option even if their employer has ACCESS to Exchange.