Healing by Faith

[LynnMcG]

We're reading "To Know Him" in my weekly bible study and the subject of healing came up at today's meeting. Basically, what I got out of this today, is that we suffer because we don't accept God's healing. Because Jesus bore our sicknesses, our illness, our iniquities on the cross and that by His stripes we WERE healed. This means, that I could potentially die from cancer if I don't receive God's healing, in faith.

Let's discuss this. I'm a little confused. I've always believed that since we have an appointed time, that we can and will die from illnesses. We are fearfully, and wonderfully made in His image so God doesn't cause us to be come sick. Satan creates illnesses and diseases because the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. God gave us wisdom which includes research, doctor's and medicine. And God can (and will if we allow Him) use these situations to His glory. But is it really all in our hands? Does our free will extend to this point?!


I've got plenty more where this came from, but let's see what you all think. BTW, my home church is WOF.

Also, could you please provide scriptural support so I can use that for my edification?

God bless and thank you!

 

[victoryword]

Let's discuss this. I'm a little confused. I've always believed that since we have an appointed time, that we can and will die from illnesses.

What is the foundation of your belief concerning this? Is it something that you have read in God's Word or is it something that you simply believe because you were taught this? It would help for you to post the Scriptures (if there are any) that support your belief in this area and we can discuss how they are understood from your perspective and ours.

For example, are you basing this "appointed time to die" on passages such as Hebrews 9:27? If so, how do you reconcile those with passages that teach that it is within our power to do things that could lengthen or shorten our time on the earth?

And God can (and will if we allow Him) use these situations to His glory.

It is a valid question, though the way the question is phrased, you seem to lean toward the belief that God can be glorified by our suffering sickness. Again, it would come to how one understands the Scriptures on this matter (vice personal experience). I wrote an article on this some years ago. It is a clumsy article which needs revision, but I would still encourage you to peruse it to see a scriptural perspective on this point:

http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/glorify.html

But is it really all in our hands? Does our free will extend to this point?!

To a certain extent, yes indeed it is. Take notice of some of Jesus' statements:

But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour. (Matt. 9:22)

Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. (Matt. 15:28)

And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way. (Mark 10:52)
​

Now we know and Jesus knows that it was the power of God that healed each of these folks, yet Jesus gives credit to their faith. Why? Because God is always willing to heal but He is never willing to force His will on anyone. Faith freely exercised appropriates God's blessings. So our "free-will" does have a stake in whether or not we receive from God.

I've got plenty more where this came from, but let's see what you all think. BTW, my home church is WOF.

Also, could you please provide scriptural support so I can use that for my edification?

God bless and thank you!

I enjoy sincere discussions and inquiries of this nature, especially when a person wants to work this out through Scripture.

 

[Trish1947]

I was noticing in the Bible. Was there anyone in the Bible that died of illness? I mean the major people that were following God? When you read the begats, it just says they lived to a certain age, and died. Today we always say they had cancer and died, or a heart attack and died, or diabetes and died, etc. There is no mention of all the major people in the Bible dieing of some disease. The only ones I'm aware of are those that weren't discerning the Lords body, and died prematurely due to sickness.

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

Let's discuss this. I'm a little confused. I've always believed that since we have an appointed time, that we can and will die from illnesses.

That is a religious/traditional idea that has to be slaughtered.

The verse actually says this:

Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

This was said in the context of Jesus dying for us. IOW, just as man will die once, Christ NEED ONLY die ONCE too.

And notice that all it says is that man is appointed unto death once (probably becos of sin/the fall).

It DOES NOT say that there is an appointed or set time/date for every one to die. Neither does it talk about sickness or fatal accidents.

I also believe that post cross, becos Jesus has conquered death and holds the keys to death -- both spiritual and physical -- and given us authority, we are able to also conquer death -- physical. Or at least we can hold it off by living in divine health until like Paul said -- I have finished the race, fought the good fight of faith, and now I want to go home.

IOW, YOU decide. When you are satisfied and you want to go, you go. That is reigning in life, over sickness and death.

I am NOT saying that we are now immortals. But it is very possible to put off death, and live in divine health all the days of our lives. You don't have to die of sickness or a tragic accident, you can go peacefully in your sleep without sickness or just 'take off' when you are ready to go. Many great men of God have done that.

Psalms 91:16
16 With long life I will satisfy him,
And show him My salvation [Hebrew-Yeshua]."

God wants to give you long life, not a long and miserable one -- but a long and satisfying one!

 

[Tatu]

Gloria Copeland is a wise woman. Here are my favorite videos of her's on healing, they're free to view: http://tinyurl.com/rzqcr

 

[Christina M]

Gloria Copeland is a wise woman. Here are my favorite videos of her's on healing, they're free to view: http://tinyurl.com/rzqcr

She always goes to the Word...... to the Word!

She has a saying: "It's in consistency that lies the power!"

It's not in believing once.... reading it once.... obeying once. You have to consistently, persistently continue in the Word in order to be victorious.

 

[LynnMcG]

She always goes to the Word...... to the Word!

She has a saying: "It's in consistency that lies the power!"

It's not in believing once.... reading it once.... obeying once. You have to consistently, persistently continue in the Word in order to be victorious.

And that's exactly where this discussion came from. We were discussing how we must abide in Him. And I think healing was used as a sort of broad example.


Thanks everyone. This is a great start for me. I intend to ready everything you've suggested.

Victoryword - I cannot think of specific scripture to go back to on this. It's just what I've been taught I would guess.

As far as God being glorified in our suffering, I meant that God will use what the devil intended for evil to His glory. Not that he ever intends for us to suffer, but as Jesus said, In this world you will have troubles...

 

[victoryword]

Victoryword - I cannot think of specific scripture to go back to on this. It's just what I've been taught I would guess.

We had a discussion on this on the PC forum some time back but I can't find the link to it. Most people use Heb. 9:27 and a passage from Ecclesiastes (I can't remember it off the top of my head) to support the "appointed time to die" doctrine, which I personally believe is a misunderstanding of Scripture, especially when Scripture teaches that one can do things that will lengthen or shorten their lives.

I wish I could find that thread. It would save me the trouble of looking up all that info again.

As far as God being glorified in our suffering, I meant that God will use what the devil intended for evil to His glory. Not that he ever intends for us to suffer, but as Jesus said, In this world you will have troubles...

I agree with you fully here. We'll never escape trials, tribulations, and persecutions. We are in a warfare. Last week I started a similar discussion on this subject which didn't get to far, but here is a link to it if you are interested:

http://www.christianforums.com/t3060847-romans-828-a-new-understanding.html&page=1

 

[KingZzub]

I am going at my time, but I am just going to go. No sickness, no nothing.

Just leave my body on the floor for my wife to pick up, just like I always do , and go and be with Jesus. For me to die is gain, to live is Christ.

 

[LynnMcG]

OK, so if we're responsible for our own healing (by faith), then praying for another's healing is pointless. Right?

Because of free will, we really can't do anything about what another thinks or feels, so praying that God would heal them is useless.

Am I wrong?

 

[KingZzub]

No.

You can through the anointing of God release power into them that they could not tap into inside themselves because of a lack of a renewed mind.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

 

[LynnMcG]

No.

You can through the anointing of God release power into them that they could not tap into inside themselves because of a lack of a renewed mind.

Blessings,
|ZZ|

I don't want to be difficult, but I want to be sure I understand. I feel like my concept of healing was sort of turned upside down last week...

I know I can heal someone in faith, by the laying of hands. But how do I know, scripturally, that I can pray for someone, on their behalf, and expect healing if I'm now being told we cannot be healed unless we believe we can be healed. It's almost by works...but I know that's not true either.

Last year, a sister in Christ from my church died of a rare form of cancer. Hundreds, possibly thousands, of believers were praying for her. She believed she was going to be healed. God even revealed her illness to many (including myself) before she knew. God told us to pray for her. Why did God allow her to die, to leave her husband and three young children? Was her faith not great enough? If not, weren't we enough?

This is just one of a few examples I can think of off the top of my head.

I truly appreciate your help while I work my way through this. Any books, articles and scriptural references would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KingZzub]

If someone is in neutral, then I can place my hands on them, teach them the Word and get them healed.

If someone is in tradition and unbelief, then they can actually resist my laying on of hands. The anointing will not flow into them.

In addition, there comes a point in every child of God's life where Father expects them to grow up and stop looking for men of God and start being a man of God.

I remember that moment very vividly in my life, as a healing evangelist refused to pray for my sick son and told me to get in the Word and believe for myself. That was a turning moment for me. I got in the Word, my son got healed, and now I have a healing ministry.

But my main passion is to bring people to the place where they have the faith to walk in the fulness of the goodness of God for themselves.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[LynnMcG]

In addition, there comes a point in every child of God's life where Father expects them to grow up and stop looking for men of God and start being a man of God.

This was the very subject of my prayers this morning.

Thanks Ben.

 

[KingZzub]

It is the greatest day of your life when you realise you are not looking for healing, but people are looking to you for healing.

You stop looking for the man with the jug and start being the man with the jug.

Blessings,
|ZZ|