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Headcovering

Izdaari Eristikon

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I hope I'm not digging too deeply into archaeology here. I've just discovered this very interesting thread.

I have long hair, and I wear skirts the majority of the time. I'll wear shorts (but not to church) if it's very hot, and I'll wear slacks (but not to church) if it's very cold. I do not traditionally cover my head, but sometimes I am convicted to do so during private prayer. If He tells me to do it, I'll do it. And for the record, if Mike asked me to wear a headcovering in obedience to Scripture--and he wouldn't--I'd gladly do so.

I've seen many applications of the headcovering doctrine. A neighbor from several years ago simply wore what resembled a small doily on top of her head, and when my daughter asked about it, she explained her reasoning. "I wear it to show that I am a Christian woman in submission to God and my husband." She wore it not only to church but whenever she appeared outside her own home. Yet it really didn't make her stand out in any way. It covered only the crown of her head, and was quite pretty.

Then there are those who wear an attractive hat or bonnet to church, and figure that answers the command. A full nun's habit, or a hijab similar to that worn by Moslems, is the route taken by others. Some rely on the hair to be a covering, whether it is cut or not, as long as she is not bald. Different interpretations.

Some even take it farther than I do. Not only long hair--which means DON'T EVEN TRIM THE ENDS--but also no makeup and no jewelry. Not only refrain from slacks and shorts, but skirts must cover the knee, sleeves must cover the elbow, and necklines must cover the collarbones. Then there are those who take it farther still: the clothing must cover all those areas AND be of a solid, dark color, AND a bonnet or veil must be worn that covers all of the hair. This is at all times, not merely in church. (No--they don't believe in going to beaches or public swimming pools, where even the most "modest" bathing suits don't cover up more than they have to.)

Most people would say I dress very modestly. But those of some past churches I've attended would be appalled when they see me sleeveless, or in shorts, or wearing makeup and jewelry. Yeah, I've got long hair, but I do keep the broken ends trimmed off. The legalism makes no sense to me. The Bible says "modest," but where does it spell out exactly what body parts must be covered, and where does it say clothing must be a dark solid color or else it isn't modest? And where, when it says long hair, does it say never to groom that hair by trimming off broken ends? In the churches that teach that, the men are forbidden to wear hair past their collars. So, if a woman has waist length hair that has been trimmed, but a man keeps his hair consistently at shoulder length, her hair is "short," his is "long," and both are disobeying the commandment.

A case can be made against makeup and jewelry, but I don't interpret those verses the same way. They're not saying DON'T wear it, they're saying that's not where your true beauty comes from. If we took those verses literally, we can read it to mean don't wear clothes at all, and never wear your hair in a braid. (Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; I Peter 3:3 in the KJV).

Legalism can always go too far. :)
All of this is culturally relative, but I'll not criticize anyone for what they wear to show that they love God. It's the best of all possible motives. For me, I don't see any of that as showing how much I love God.

For me, well, my church is Assemblies of God, conservative evangelical and Pentecostal, but there's nothing special we wear. We dress modestly (but some of you might not think so), cleanly and neatly, but there's no special rules. The only head covering I wear to church is my hair, which isn't that long. It was a sunny, very warm day last Sunday, and I wore shorts, a tank top and sandals to church (looking much like my avatar), and that was pretty much the same as the other young women there (ok, I'm not that young, but I think I am). That might not have been appropriate for the earlier services, which tend to be an older, more traditional demographic, but I go to an evening service that's youth-oriented and "come as you are" casual.
 
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NorrinRadd

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I've not read this whole thread, so if I'm retracing old tracks... too bad!

Thing 1: This article by William Welty might be interesting or even useful. Note that he uses the ISV translation, which renders some parts, including v. 10 and vv. 14-16, in a rather non-standard way.

Thing 2: While I do find some appeal to the "man as protector, provider, and 'prince'" idea, Scripture persuades me that men and women are to be equals. That being the case, I wouldn't want to be involved with some needy little flower who expected me to follow the "leadership is male" ideals.

Thing 3: If I were *already* involved with such a one... I suppose I'd use my authority to command her to stop being so submissive!
 
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NorrinRadd

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Izzy, I've not been to my local AG in quite a while, but if it's anything like it was back then, if you walked in like that, half the congregation would have been laying hands on you, and the other half would have "fallen out" -- and not "in the Spirit."
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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Izzy, I've not been to my local AG in quite a while, but if it's anything like it was back then, if you walked in like that, half the congregation would have been laying hands on you, and the other half would have "fallen out" -- and not "in the Spirit."
I guess that just shows that congregations vary a lot within a denomination! ^_^

And I wouldn't dress quite so casually at the morning services. They're an older, more traditional demographic, and I wouldn't want to draw any attention for how I dress... so I would still dress casually, but less so. Even at those, the pastor is still likely to be wearing jeans.
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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I've not read this whole thread, so if I'm retracing old tracks... too bad!

Thing 1: This article by William Welty might be interesting or even useful. Note that he uses the ISV translation, which renders some parts, including v. 10 and vv. 14-16, in a rather non-standard way.
Very interesting article! Thanks! :thumbsup:

Thing 2: While I do find some appeal to the "man as protector, provider, and 'prince'" idea, Scripture persuades me that men and women are to be equals. That being the case, I wouldn't want to be involved with some needy little flower who expected me to follow the "leadership is male" ideals.

Thing 3: If I were *already* involved with such a one... I suppose I'd use my authority to command her to stop being so submissive!
:amen:
 
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desmalia

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Jesus submits to the Father. Does that make Him in any way less than equal to the Father? Personally, I do not believe so. The Father, Son, and Spirit are all equal, but with different roles.

I think much of the problem with this sort of issue is the Biblical understanding of the word submission itself and why it is commanded in the first place. We live in a world where we are taught from an early age to fight for our rights and stand up for ourselves. But the Christian family is called to unconditional submission, service, sacrifice, etc. as bondservants (slaves) to Christ. Our will and our "rights" are no longer the focus. Our carnal human will naturally fights against that though.
 
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DarkNLovely

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My granparents and great grandparents would probably be classified as Fundamentalist/Pentecostal/Charismatic what-have and we ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS cover when we pray! I also like to cover in daily life from time to time! When I started to cover at my Church, more and more women started to do it. It's wonderful. It gives you a greater sense of The Presence!
 
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DarkNLovely

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I bought this one some months ago, only mine is white. The Amish headcoverings are black if unmarried and white if married! I found that interesting.

almon_flat.gif


Currently, I am following the tradition of my grandmothers and am wearing the covering in daily public life. I do not know if I always will, but for now I am pleased. My grandma never leaves the house without hers and my great- grandma even wore her scarf in the house. When I wear one, It looks something like this.

0fcf_1.JPG


I thinks to not stand out so, I may switch to hats too!
http://www.cpfoodmenu.com/ProductPics/686_lg.jpg
 
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DarkNLovely

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What's the deal! I just posted pics of the type I wear and it said something about moderated approval. It's about COVERING so I hope they don't think they are dirty pics! Lol!

0fcf_1.JPG


It worked! This is actually from a Jewish site called Kol-Bo Boutique! This is the syle I wear in daily life.
 
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DarkNLovely

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The verses say the opposite of what you claim they do. It says if a woman does not cover her head, let her be as those who shave it off completely. If a woman does not want to publicly acknowledge that in Church she is not to have authority over men, that is, if she wishes to assert her supposed right to be an elder, then she ought be considered as rebellious as a prostitute.

Now, you can claim this whole thing is only cultural, and does not apply today, but do not change the plain meaning of the text. Three types of women are here referenced: those with balled heads (publicly proclaiming they are temple prostitutes), women with hair who cover it in Church as an external sign of recognition they are not to exert authority there, and women with uncovered hair. The latter group, Paul says, should be treated as the first: disobedient to God.

Frankly, I find it very suspicious that for 2,000 years the head covering was the uniform, and then, just as "women's lib" and their anti-Christian message of rebellion becomes accepted, the coverings vanish with hardly a discussion. The Church ought not copy the World, and in head coverings, it clearly did.

JR

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

Speaking of which, my favorite covering from ages past is the French Hood.
 
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Criada

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The moderated post thing is a bug, not a comment on your post!
Sorry... we are approving them as fast as we notice them... if it happens again PM me, or any staff member who is on line and we will sort it!

I find a hat is less conspicuous... that said, it gives less opportunity for witnessing as people are less inclined to ask why!
 
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DarkNLovely

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The moderated post thing is a bug, not a comment on your post!
Sorry... we are approving them as fast as we notice them... if it happens again PM me, or any staff member who is on line and we will sort it!

I find a hat is less conspicuous... that said, it gives less opportunity for witnessing as people are less inclined to ask why!

Cool bean Criada! I just remebered another mod already told me that! :blush:

Do you think a covering shoudn't be inconspicuiss?<<I can't spell that!^_^
 
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Criada

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Cool bean Criada! I just remebered another mod already told me that! :blush:

Do you think a covering shoudn't be inconspicuiss?<<I can't spell that!^_^

I don't think it matters... it is for God not man.
But it is something God can use as a conversation starter... and if it gives us a chance to witness, that has to be a good thing. :)
 
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DarkNLovely

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I don't think it matters... it is for God not man.
But it is something God can use as a conversation starter... and if it gives us a chance to witness, that has to be a good thing. :)

I never really thought of it like that. Witnessing SCARES me period but adding this and it gets saryier! I think it's fine that some women choose not to cover, but I just don't understand when they are AGAINST it and this is intimidating. Maybe it's diffferent when you aren't raised that way.
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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Question for those who believe (as I do) in long hair for women:

It has also been asserted that a grown woman should never wear her hair down except in private with her family. Appearing in public with hair down would be immodesty. From what principle does this come?

Thanks. :)
 
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Criada

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I never really thought of it like that. Witnessing SCARES me period but adding this and it gets saryier! I think it's fine that some women choose not to cover, but I just don't understand when they are AGAINST it and this is intimidating. Maybe it's diffferent when you aren't raised that way.

Well, I wasn't raised that way ^_^. In fact, my mother thinks that I'm mad... tho that's not entirely due to headcoverings.
Witnessing can be scary if you make a big thing of it and put yourself under pressure.... but if you just think of it as talking about someone you love.... it's not so daunting!
And, as Francis of Assisi said "Witness at all times. If necessary use words"
Your life is a witness, sis.... and people will see that and ask questions :)
 
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desmalia

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Question for those who believe (as I do) in long hair for women:

It has also been asserted that a grown woman should never wear her hair down except in private with her family. Appearing in public with hair down would be immodesty. From what principle does this come?

Thanks. :)
I think primarily from culture and the fact that men tend to love long hair on women. So it may be considered a way of keeping them from the temptation to lust after her.

I'm not that strict about women having to have long hair because it is a cultural issue. The key that is biblical is that we women should look and act like women and men should look and act like men. In our culture men generally have short hair. In Jesus day, the grew it long. Neither is wrong. It depends on the context.

I also believe that women should be submissive to their husbands. So while I've had short hair (long before I met hubby), I won't have it again because he doesn't like it. LOL and my hair is a nightmare to take care of, so it is a challenge!
 
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Criada

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Question for those who believe (as I do) in long hair for women:

It has also been asserted that a grown woman should never wear her hair down except in private with her family. Appearing in public with hair down would be immodesty. From what principle does this come?

Thanks. :)

Tradition? Never heard that one, tbh...
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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@DarkNLovely:
This is what the neighbor I mentioned in my previous post wore. If I remember correctly, the family was Mennonite, and I found this at a Mennonite site. :)
Coveri36.jpg
 
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