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I don't think going in this direction, getting into theory of mind, is going to be productive. I try to keep everything within the area of direct experience as much as possible.What do you think "awareness" is?
I explain in my second post that I am not advocating emotional decision making. I should have anticipated this miscommunication when I made the OP.".
It's not a question of whether suffering is abnormal, but it's about whether or not we have a desire to cure it. I feel strongly that everyone has moments when they feel this desire, usually during and soon after they experience suffering. That desire should be seized and held onto.
The problem is when we think to resolve our pain those thoughts are influenced by emotion at an unconscious level. We agree we want to avoid emotional decision making.
I don't think going in this direction, getting into theory of mind, is going to be productive. I try to keep everything within the area of direct experience as much as possible.
If we've already reached a separation, I would say forget what I said to you in the previous post and instead of "bringing your awareness into your torso" instead simply feel your body in that area. If you're not feeling your body, then you're presumably in your head. It works the same in practice.
I can try to come up with a clearer way to explain what I mean, but maybe it might be helpful for me to better understand what you are unclear about.Well I think it's important to clear up what you mean by awareness since I can't get a grasp of it based solely on context. In this post you make it sound like it's the same as "feeling" (physically, not emotionally) when you say this....
"...I would say forget what I said to you in the previous post and instead of "bringing your awareness into your torso" instead simply feel your body in that area."
So in that sentence, it seems to relate to the physical sensation of touch. Yet in your previous posts, you've used the word "awareness" like this....
"For instance, if you place your full awareness on an object away from you, it is impossible to simultaneously engage in thought unless your awareness gets sucked back into your head."
In that sentence it seems to refer to something related to thought...some process that's not physical at all. So in order to understand what you're getting at here, I'm really going to need some sort of workable definition...the way you're using the word is unfamiliar to me and seems entirely inconsistent.
I can try to come up with a clearer way to explain what I mean, but maybe it might be helpful for me to better understand what you are unclear about.
When I say to feel your body, do you take that to mean to physically feel it with your hands?
Have you ever been so engrossed as a spectator that you "lose yourself"?
Are you able to comprehend the concept of mindfulness - does the idea of observing your thoughts make sense to you?
I agree. The emotional, impulsive thinking that wants revenge when we feel wronged is similar to the emotional thinking that I am saying to separate yourself from in this thread. Jesus teaches to forgive internally, in heart and mind. He's not teaching morality; he's teaching something more. Likewise, when he says to turn the other cheek.
Jesus wasn't calm all the time. There are times He got real angry, and even dodged people's attempts to hurt him.... He wasn't just going to turn the other cheek.
And frankly, you won't make a good leader if you choose to remain positive in all situations whether you're just acting or not. You'll make a good, well-tempered mascot or clown but that is not what we are going for.
Look where the Lord lead. He was a clown to those people in the end. They mocked him. That just shown the Love God has for ungrateful people though. That was the whole point i think.
That is the popular Christian belief but Christ does not want everyone, the ungrateful and the mockers will not be given a chance:
Read Please:
Mark 4:11-12
He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables
so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"
You are missing the point. This isn't about morality; it's not about saying behave this way or that way. It's about freeing yourself from impulse and compulsions. You are making false assumptions about where this would lead and those assumptions come from those exact same unconscious emotional impulses, aka fear and pain avoidance.Jesus wasn't calm all the time. There are times He got real angry, and even dodged people's attempts to hurt him.... He wasn't just going to turn the other cheek.
And frankly, you won't make a good leader if you choose to remain positive in all situations whether you're just acting or not. You'll make a good, well-tempered mascot or clown but that is not what we are going for.
He still died for the world though, thats the only point i was making.
Yeah, just notice and focus on your torso area, through feel without touch, even when there are no sensations vying for your attention. If you practice this during times of less stress, you'll give yourself a better chance to be able to do it during high stress. Again, you won't be willing to implement this until you clearly see that you have a problem that you have failed to solve.Basically, or to notice your breathing, the clothes against your skin, any aches and pains, your stomach rumbling...essentially all physical sensations.
You are missing the point. This isn't about morality; it's not about saying behave this way or that way. It's about freeing yourself from impulse and compulsions. You are making false assumptions about where this would lead and those assumptions come from those exact same unconscious emotional impulses, aka fear and pain avoidance.
Wake up or stay asleep. The ones who have settled into their sleep will come up with anything to justify it. Come back to this thread when you want more out of life.
Someone who understands, implements it into their life, and someone who implements it does not allow himself to feel victimized, does not provide excuses for himself, and does not look for sympathy. Because it prevents them from solving the problem. I wish you the best.I know most of what you are talking about.
I'm not sure why you brought it up. Although it is Biblical, it has no relevance in this discussion.
I was only saying that Jesus got angry at people and it's also in the Bible. In relevance to this discussion, I don't think we should totally suppress our emotional response as Jesus Himself did not always tried. Jesus is not really a zen master.
I always equated the phrase "listen to your heart" with the idea of paying attention to your feelings/emotions regarding a choice/problem. Is this what you mean? If you meant something else I'm afraid I don't understand and you'll need to clarify...
That said, I think it's almost always wrong to consider your emotions as the most important factor in a choice (in fact, I would suggest to most people that they try to ignore their emotions altogether). The only time I would suggest "following your heart" is when all the intellectual considerations are small/equal or the goal of the choice at hand is emotional satisfaction. Since that's rarely the case...people should consider ignoring their hearts and using their heads more.
Someone who understands, implements it into their life, and someone who implements it does not allow himself to feel victimized, does not provide excuses for himself, and does not look for sympathy. Because it prevents them from solving the problem. I wish you the best.
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