Head of state like Nero, Un, Mao, Stalin, Obama, God's choice?

[DennisTate]

In the word of God, such as Romans 13, and by the example of Daniel in the Old Testament, whoever is in power seems to be appointed by God. Some were alright while others were grossly wicked. How can this be?

Was Paul before Nero rightly tormented or was Paul to convert Nero, or was Nero the wrong man? If Nero was converted by Paul, it would demonstrate healing, did Paul fall short? Bonhoeffer demonstrated it was right to lie to the authorities. But was a bit too honest and did not take an opportunity to escape and was hung one month before Germany was liberated.

I think Dr Carson ought to have been the USA's first black president.

President's backing abortion, 61,000,000 babies aborted?
WW2 and Hitler, and Churchill taking over after France was blunder lost.
Stalin ruled Russia, millions died. Hitler Nero and Stalin had in common, criminal insanity.

I think heads of state must sometimes be the wrong people.

One explanation for what is going on is that God......
has kind of gotten into the business of reality film production and
our lives are actually of far more value than we tend to imagine but........

....... if the need to send the Word / Logos to play out the role of Messiah the Passover Lamb became obviously necessary as soon as Even and Adam decided to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ......
then the obstacles that we face in life are comparable to some of the problems that Adam and Eve went up against.......

There is an ancient writing.... The Book of Adam and Eve that does an amazing job of elaborating on what life may perhaps have been like for our first great, great, great.... .grandparents.

Participating in a plan to "restore all things" was something that we may have known would be difficult.. .. even before we were born.

Matthew 17:11

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."

Wicked political leaders and relatively righteous political or religious leaders are partly the result of choices by humans........ and God has delegated a surprising amount of power over events to us. But of course... God pleads guilty for raising up an especially stubborn Pharaoh so that God could shock the world of the time period of the Exodus......

Exo 10:1

And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

 

[SBC]

In the word of God, such as Romans 13, and by the example of Daniel in the Old Testament, whoever is in power seems to be appointed by God. Some were alright while others were grossly wicked. How can this be?

People have freewill - they can submit to being under the Authority of whom they choose. People wanting to be under the Authority of a foolish man, is not too much for God to oblidge.

Isa 3
[4] And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.

I think Dr Carson ought to have been the USA's first black president.

I think people whining about racial differences, racial bating, while promoting racial division is an oxymoron.

First black president? Funny what does race have to do with the Presidency? Funny, never have I heard, the First white President term, nor ever heard a legitimate President introduce himself by announcing his skin color as part of an introduction of himself.

President's backing abortion, 61,000,000 babies aborted?

Irrelevant what an individual supports, even if that individual is the President, a female having an abortion, or the doctor who performs an abortion.

If an individual does not find abortions a suitable choice, then do not do it or support it financially or otherwise.

I think heads of state must sometimes be the wrong people.

Sure they are.
Most of the voters who set corrupt politicians in offices are themselves corrupt.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[ambc]

If God chooses the leaders of nations, that would mean Obama, a staunch abortion supporter, was divinely appointed to be president of the United States. God would never give a pro-abortion politician so much power.

 

[tulc]

If God chooses the leaders of nations, that would mean Obama, a staunch abortion supporter, was divinely appointed to be president of the United States. God would never give a pro-abortion politician so much power.

uhmmm...actually that would sort of be the point of this thread, if people want to say "We all need to get behind President Trump because he's who God made the President!" it sort of begs the question: "Then why weren't those same people, who make this claim, so supportive of President Obama when HE was the person God made President?".
tulc(welcome to CF by the way!)

 

[ambc]

uhmmm...actually that would sort of be the point of this thread, if people want to say "We all need to get behind President Trump because he's who God made the President!" it sort of begs the question: "Then why weren't those same people, who make this claim, so supportive of President Obama when HE was the person God made President?".
tulc(welcome to CF by the way!)

Thanks for the welcome. And I agree with your point. People who say God appointed Trump but think Obama wasn't divinely appointed need to rethink their ideas.

 

[JackRT]

If God chooses the leaders of nations, that would mean Obama, a staunch abortion supporter, was divinely appointed to be president of the United States.

Those of us who support legal abortion are not necessarily "staunch abortion supporters: --- in fact most of us are not. Please choose your words more carefully.

 

[ambc]

Those of us who support legal abortion are not necessarily "staunch abortion supporters: --- in fact most of us are not. Please choose your words more carefully.

I understand the pro-choice mentality. I was specifically referring to Obama in my post, not everyone who supports legal abortion. Because Obama wanted to force Catholics to provide abortions, I think my words are spot-on.

 

[DennisTate]

Right, because Republicans own Christianity? I don't think so.

I got one for you that is pretty wild........
A then fifteen year old Israeli named Natan had a near death experience back in 2015.....
at the thirty minute mark in the video linked to the article about it
a specific role is given for President Obama.... .a role from the Bible........

Near death experiencer, at the minimum, can be compared with Prophet Balaam who
gave King Balak a way to attempt to mess up Israel......

The role that is predicted for President Obama could create an international incident between Israel and the USA unless........
some sort of a modern Hushai type of person goes right in there and messes up the "Counsel of Ahithophel" situation that we are in..........

Israeli teenager has near death experience and predicts....

 

[tulc]

I got one for you that is pretty wild........(snip)

cool story bro.
tulc(not actually pertinent or interesting but ok)

 

[pat34lee]

If God chooses the leaders of nations, that would mean Obama, a staunch abortion supporter, was divinely appointed to be president of the United States. God would never give a pro-abortion politician so much power.

You should reread Daniel.

 

[tulc]

I'm curious what people make of the bolded portion :

1 Set the trumpet to thy mouth. He shall come as an eagle against the house of the Lord, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law.

2 Israel shall cry unto me, My God, we know thee.

3 Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him.

4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off. (emph. added)

it appears to me? Not every leader is chosen by God.
tulc(just came across that again while reading yesterday)

 

[Jamsie]

I'm curious what people make of the bolded portion :

it appears to me? Not every leader is chosen by God. tulc(just came across that again while reading yesterday)

"Great" minds...check out post #46

 

[SeventyOne]

I'm curious what people make of the bolded portion :

it appears to me? Not every leader is chosen by God.
tulc(just came across that again while reading yesterday)

Did you read further in the chapter and see the reference is to crafted idols? These aren't actual people.

 

[tulc]

Did you read further in the chapter and see the reference is to crafted idols? These aren't actual people.

I did indeed read further and I'm not seeing any reason why He couldn't be talking about both. It says kings and princes and then it talks about gold and silver being made in to idols. I kind of suspected someone was going to try and say that's what it was about.
tulc(who is now finishing his last cup of coffee for the day)

 

[SeventyOne]

I did indeed read further and I'm not seeing any reason why He couldn't be talking about both. It says kings and princes and then it talks about gold and silver being made in to idols. I kind of suspected someone was going to try and say that's what it was about.
tulc(who is now finishing his last cup of coffee for the day)

Good instincts, since that is what the passage is actually about.

 

[tulc]

Good instincts, since that is what the passage is actually about.

Or it isn't.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

 

[Jamsie]

Did you read further in the chapter and see the reference is to crafted idols? These aren't actual people.

Verse 4 is taken in light of Jeroboam, and his successors, after the break with the "house of David". The idols aren't actual people or gods, but the Kings and princes (judges, governors, elders, etc.) certainly are, are the idols worshipped as gods or by the people thought to be kings and princes? Makes no logical sense to conflate... premise of decretive and permissive will.