He Comes With Clouds

[it'sme]

And you belief that all JW's are united and all believe the same things?

This is something many will not understand until they experience it.

 

[2ducklow]

This is something many will not understand until they experience it.

I don't care to experience non independant thinknig.

 

[it'sme]

to be united everyone has to think independantly and be united in what they believe. JW's are not allowed to think independantly so no one knows what the average JW believes . No one knows if JW's are united cause even JW's don't know what they believe because they aren't allowed to think independantly. there is no unity of belief in JWism. there is only submission to what higher ups tell them.

This is interesting in what you said , because you do have to think independently and yet have the same understanding about God and the bible . This is exactly what I was talking about. We all have diffent backgrounds come from different countries, we different personalities. And yet we have the same understanding, we get the same information world wide with in 24 hours.
I can tell you many things about this, but you have to experience it. Isn't this what you would expect from God's organization on earth.

 

[FredVB]

>"what you said does not seem the case, meaning if true that you are not monotheist."
The bible says that Jehovah alone is God. He was never created and was never the first born. He had no beginning. Jesus was the first creation of Jehovah's and it was through Jesus that all other creation happened.

Yes, Yahweh alone is God, that is what I have been saying. He did not make another that was then a god. " 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. " Genesis 1 v 1. So another god did not create all things, or, as faultily translated, all "other" things. "1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning." John 1 v 1 and 2. And then starting verse 14, "14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory". "16For by him all things were created" first part of Colossians 1 v 16. There are many other such passages, and if taken directly as it is said, and it is said so in the Greek texts, because Yahweh alone is God and is the creator of all things (I just pointed that out above), these passages named above and the others mean that Jesus as the Creator is that God, or you have contradictions. Letting human reasoning get in the way of seeing that persons, as applied to God, does not mean different beings, will get in the way of seeing these passages making this true.

>The Holy Spirit is not a person but Jehovah's active force that he uses to get things done. ( though the Holy Spirit is personalized in many places in the bible but other places show that the Holy Spirit is not a being.)

I will go with what the Bible teaches of the Holy Spirit the way it says, and if in "other places" the Holy Spirit is not personalized those do not contradict where the Holy Spirit is so.

>The idea of a trinity came from pagan origins, and is not in the bible.
When the bible uses the term son, we know what that is. That is why it is used in the bible. Jesus didn't get immortality untill be died on the earth and then was resurrected .Jehovah gave that to him.

Of the trinity, I have responded to this, and certainly as Der Alter has said Der Alter has very adequately done so. it'sme you have never yet answered the valid objections we made. And you gave no regard to the explanation of the Son being so with the incarnation, a word justified by the meaning found in scripture, and not contradicted by scripture. This understanding furnishes the correct position on the rest of that statement.

>Mark 10:17 And as he was going out on his way, a certain man ran up and fell upon his knees before him and put the question to him: “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” 18 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.

Yes, only God is fully good, as no mere human on Earth would be. Jesus needed to make that point, not needing to make a case at that time that he was God, or one with the Father. Certainly we can know that Jesus was always sinless, and so Jesus really was good.

>John 17:3, RS: “[Jesus prayed to his Father:] This is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God [“who alone art truly God,” NE], and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” (Notice that Jesus referred not to himself but to his Father in heaven as “the only true God.&#8221

I have adequately answered this position, without disagreeing with these sorts of Bible passages where the Father is referred to as God. You can see it answered in the past dialogue that it need not be repeated, as so many things are.

>John 20:17, RS: “Jesus said to her [Mary Magdalene], ‘Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” (So to the resurrected Jesus, the Father was God, just as the Father was God to Mary Magdalene. Interestingly, not once in Scripture do we find the Father addressing the Son as “my God.&#8221

Certainly repeated, and answered. But scripture is found with the Son referred to as God, as was pointed out, even with the Father's address.

>John 1:1, RS: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [also KJ, JB, Dy, Kx, NAB].” NE reads “what God was, the Word was.” Mo says “the Logos was divine.” AT and Sd tell us “the Word was divine.” The interlinear rendering of ED is “a god was the Word.” NW reads “the Word was a god”; NTIV uses the same wording.

I too have interlinear from Greek as I have said, and if you do and you use it, you should be familiar with matter that in another language, and specifically in Greek in this case, the same word order does not occur to give the same meaning, but it is understandable to those who understand the language, and "the Word was God" is the correct rendering, and there is not justification from the wording to say "a god".

>Col. 1:15-17, RS: “He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation . . . All things were created through him and for him. He is before all things.”
John 17:5, RS: “[In prayer Jesus said:] Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.” (Also John 8:23)

See the point above I made that while this is true, God alone made all things. And we can all see, from this, that Jesus shared the glory with the Father before the world, which no one created by God could ever do. And God said in Isaiah 42 v 8 " 8 I am Yahweh, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another", and in John 5 v 23, "23all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father."

>Matthew 16:13 Now when he had come into the parts of Caes‧a‧re′a Phi‧lip′pi, Jesus went asking his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E‧li′jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “YOU, though, who do YOU say I am?” 16 In answer Simon Peter said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jo′nah, because flesh and blood did not reveal [it] to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did

Yes, the Father is acknowledged for his role when it was human accomplishment. When Peter said that Jesus, the Christ, was the Son of God, it must have been with understanding that Jews who were to stone him had for saying he was the Son of God, because that would mean he was equal to God (the words of scripture).

>Jesus, told us who he is. But some people today will put more trust into their church says than what Jesus says.

Some people do so. I am sure nothing I have said suggests this is what I do. Are you so sure it is not what you do? I have made a case, to which more can be added, sufficing for my point about Jesus, from just the Bible. But you could admit you have relied on quotes that have been shown to be unreliable, and made allegations on the trinity, which you brought up, which are still unsubstantiated.

>As for ganging up on me , that is expected, actually if you didn't I that it would not be a good sign.

I have not taken part on ganging up on you, but have only been addressing the point about Jesus, and discussion related to it. You might come to see this position is right, and if so, I know you have a difficulty then with your congregation, and will need to see about having other fellowship, and I have said I would be there for you.

>we have the same understanding, we get the same information world wide with in 24 hours. I can tell you many things about this, but you have to experience it. Isn't this what you would expect from God's organization on earth.

No, I do not expect that from an organization of God on earth. God gave us his revelation, we have the Bible, I take and promote so taking the basis of our faith from it.

 

[FredVB]

I will be waiting for a response. Let me know if you have thought these things out.

 

[FredVB]

Even trying to erase unintended doubles of messages does not work for me.

 

[Der Alte]

Even trying to erase unintended doubles of messages does not work for me.

Click "Edit", bottom right of the window, replace all the words of the double post with a short statement such as "Inadvertent double post" then click "Save." also bottom right.

 

[it'sme]

>"what you said does not seem the case, meaning if true that you are not monotheist."
The bible says that Jehovah alone is God. He was never created and was never the first born. He had no beginning. Jesus was the first creation of Jehovah's and it was through Jesus that all other creation happened.

The bible says there are many Gods and many Lords. Even Satan is called a God.


2 Corinthians 4:4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.
Jesus is the image of God, not God himself.

>The Holy Spirit is not a person but Jehovah's active force that he uses to get things done. ( though the Holy Spirit is personalized in many places in the bible but other places show that the Holy Spirit is not a being.)

I will go with what the Bible teaches of the Holy Spirit the way it says, and if in "other places" the Holy Spirit is not personalized those do not contradict where the Holy Spirit is so.

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit (“Holy Ghost,” KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa‧ra′kle‧tos; “Comforter,” KJ; “Advocate,” JB, NE) that ‘teaches,’ ‘bears witness,’ ‘speaks’ and ‘hears.’ (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were “filled” with holy spirit, that some were ‘baptized’ with it or “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God’s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.
So there is a president, in personifying non person things as a person.
The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father—Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as ‘filling’ people; they can be ‘baptized’ with it; and they can be “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.
For example, wisdom is said to have “children.” (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit “spoke,” other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also “the water and the blood” are said to ‘bear witness.’ So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.
The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will.—Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31. JWP
We don't say wisdom is a person because the bible says it can have children. Or do we say sin death are persons because the bible calls them kings.

 

[FredVB]

Click "Edit", bottom right of the window, replace all the words of the double post with a short statement such as "Inadvertent double post" then click "Save." also bottom right.

Thank you, Der Alter, for the information to do that. The problem may have been from my connection to the internet. I had done that before, but it would not work when I was trying it with the last message.

 

[Der Alte]

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit (“Holy Ghost,” KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa‧ra′kle‧tos; “Comforter,” KJ; “Advocate,” JB, NE) that ‘teaches,’ ‘bears witness,’ ‘speaks’ and ‘hears.’ (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were “filled” with holy spirit, that some were ‘baptized’ with it or “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God’s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.
So there is a president, in personifying non person things as a person.
The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father—Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as ‘filling’ people; they can be ‘baptized’ with it; and they can be “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.
For example, wisdom is said to have “children.” (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit “spoke,” other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also “the water and the blood” are said to ‘bear witness.’ So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.
The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will.—Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31. JWP
We don't say wisdom is a person because the bible says it can have children. Or do we say sin death are persons because the bible calls them kings.

The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. He is fully God. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, has a distinct will, a distinct mind, a distinct self, and can speak. He is alive. He is a person. He is not particularly visible in the Bible because His ministry is to bear witness of Jesus (John 15:26).

Some false teaching religions like the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., claim that the Holy Spirit is nothing but an impersonal force (Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 406-407). This is false. If the Holy Spirit were merely an impersonal force or power, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); and He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11), a self, (Jn 16:13), or a mind, (Rom 8:27).

The truth is, there are, at least, seventy two (72), possibly more, personal characteristics or attributes, listed in scripture for the Holy Spirit and He is a person the same as the Father and the Son are, within the Trinity.

Names of the Spirit

1. God -Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17
2. Lord - 2 Cor. 3:18
3. Spirit - 1 Cor. 2:10
4. Spirit of God - 1 Cor. 3:16
5. Spirit of Truth - John 15:26
6. Eternal Spirit - Heb. 9:14

Attributes of (9)

7. Eternal -Heb. 9:14
8. Omnipotent - Luke 1:35
9. Omnipresent - Psalm 139:710
10. Distinct Will from the father and the son– 1 Cor. 12:11
11. Loves - Rom. 15:30
12. Speaks - Acts 8:29; Acts 13:2
13. Distinct Mind from the father and the son – Rom 8:27
14. Distinct Self from the father and the son – John 16:13
15. Alive – John 14:17

Symbols of (3)

16. Dove - Mat 3:15
17. Wind - John 3:5
18. Fire - Acts 2:3

Sins Against (6)

19. Blasphemy - Mat 12:31
20. Resist (Unbelief) - Acts 7:51
21. Insult - Heb 10:29
22. Lied to - Acts 5:3
23. Grieved - Eph 4:30
24. Quench - 1 Thes 5:19

Power in Christ's Life (6)

25. Conceived of - Mat 1:18-20
26. Baptism - Mat 3:15
27. Led by - Luke 4:1
28. Filled with Power - Luke 4:14,18
29. Witness of Jesus - John 15:26
30. Raised Jesus - Rom 8:11

The Works of the Holy Spirit (42)

1 Access to God - Eph 2:18
2 Anoints for Service - Luke 4:18
3 Assures - Rom. 8:15-16; Gal 4:6
4 Authors Scripture - 2 Pet 1:20-21
5 Baptizes - John 1:32-34; 1 Cor 12:13-14
6 Believers Born of - John 3:3-6
7 Calls and Commissions - Acts 13:24; Acts 20:28
8 Cleanses - 2 Thes 3:13; 1 Pet. 1:2
9 Comforts - Act 9:31
10 Communion with believers – 2 Cor 13:14
11 Convicts of sin - John 16:9,14
12 Counsels - John 14:16
13 Creates - Gen 1:2; Job 33:4
14 Empowers - 1 Thes 1:5
15 Empowers Believers - Luke 24:49
16 Fellowship with believers – Phil 2:1
17 Fills - Acts 2:4; Acts 4:29-31; Acts 5:18-20; Acts 9:17
18 Forbids action - Acts 16:6
19 Gives gifts - 1 Cor. 12:8-11
20 Glorifies Christ - John 16:14
21 Guides in truth - John 16:13
22 Helps our weakness - Rom 8:26
23 Indwells believers - Rom 8:9-14; Gal 4:6
24 Inspires prayer - Eph 6:18; Jude 20
25 Intercedes -Rom 8:26
26 Interprets Scripture - 1 Cor 2:1,14; Eph 1:17
27 Leads - Rom 8:14
28 Liberates - Rom 8:2
29 Molds Character - Gal 5:22-23
30 Produces fruit - Gal 5:22-23
31 Raises from the dead - Rom 8:11
32 Regenerates - Titus 3:5
33 Reveals – Luk 2:26
34 Sanctifies - Rom. 15:16
35 Seals - Eph 1:13-14; Eph 4:30
36 Sends - Acts 13:4
37 Sent - Gal 4:6; 1 Pet 1:12
38 Strengthens - Eph 3:16; Acts 1:8; 2:4; 1 Cor 2:4
39 Testifies of Jesus - John 15:26
40 Victory over flesh - Rom. 8:2-4; Gal 4:6
41 Warns – Acts 20:23
42 Worship helper - Phi 3:3

[91]​

 

[it'sme]

The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. He is fully God. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, has a distinct will, a distinct mind, a distinct self, and can speak. He is alive. He is a person. He is not particularly visible in the Bible because His ministry is to bear witness of Jesus (John 15:26).

Do you also agree that wisdom is a father and can have children?

Do you also agree that sin and death are kings with countries of their own?

If ones become filled with holy spirit, does that means they are possessed?

Or does it mean that we get help from Jehovah through his energy and power?
Can the holy spirit possess more than one person at a time?

Satan and his demons did an unnatural thing by possessing people before the flood. So does Jehovah condone this.

Names of the Spirit

1. God -Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17
2. Lord - 2 Cor. 3:18
3. Spirit - 1 Cor. 2:10
4. Spirit of God - 1 Cor. 3:16
5. Spirit of Truth - John 15:26
6. Eternal Spirit - Heb. 9:14
God is a title there are many Gods. Satan is called a God.
Lord also is a title like Lord Nelson.
Spirit can mean breath, or a spirit person, Satan is a spirit person. Spirit has many meanings.
Spirit of God can also mean his vital force or power.
Spirit of truth, can mean he has spirit, in the way we mean when a person gets knocked down and he keeps getting up, we say he has spirit. So this is spirit for the truth.
Eternal, just means forever. So Jehovah can use his spirit ( or active force , or power )forever.

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's active force or power.

 

[FredVB]

>The bible says there are many Gods and many Lords. Even Satan is called a God....that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. Jesus is the image of God, not God himself.

>God is a title there are many Gods. Satan is called a God.

We had this discussion, with my answer to that, before. There are other gods mentioned in the Bible, but they are so from human recognition. God never made another god. God as we see does not acknowledge any other being as truly God. The "gods" mentioned are those of human recognition. Satan is not approved to be a god by God himself, only acknowledged as such with human recognition. As we know Yahweh said in Isaiah,
"Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. I am Yahweh, and there is none else, there is no God beside me". God gives no recognition to any other god.

No creation is ever declared to be of God's very substance or essence (upostaseos): therefore the eternal Word, who is "the fullness of Deity bodily" (Colossians 2 v 9), cannot be a creation or created being. In then Greek it reads, ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς with Greek letters transcribed to the letters we use by me, oti en auto katoikei pan to pleroma tes theotetos somatikos, It literally means, For in him dwells all the fullness of Deity bodily. The image of God is the fullness of Deity bodily. There's nothing less than full Deity in Jesus.

>These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person

But you use a limited meaning to the word person, justified only if a person is only a human. God is everywhere, and not limited to a location. Jesus is wherever believers gather for prayer and fellowship in his name. The Spirit is not limited to a physical location, and is anywhere and certainly with every believer, and it is possible to offend the Spirit, grieve the Spirit, lie to the Spirit, which in Acts 5 we can see is equal to lying to God, and blaspheme against the Spirit, even though blasphemy is only against God. To be be filled with Spirit is to be fully given over to the influence of the Spirit. You recognize there can be metaphors, but it not a right conclusion that it is as a person that there must be metaphors.

>The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father—Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.

We can have the perspective that the Father does not give us his name either, and for that matter, there was originally the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, each not with a name revealed to us, and Jesus had this name given when "the Word became flesh and we beheld his glory". The perspective I have given and fully supported is that Jesus is with the Father one being, the one God, and it is God's name that is Yahweh. And you brought up the topic of the Spirit, which I show is not unique in not having a name revealed to us.

>the Bible also personifies wisdom

I am glad you recognize this at this point. Earlier you were using the case of wisdom personified to argue the "creation of Jesus", which had no scriptural basis (I have already explained meaning for the word "firstborn").

>Satan and his demons did an unnatural thing by possessing people before the flood. So does Jehovah condone this[?]

Der Alter just contributed a very good list showing there is overwhelming support in scripture for personhood for the Spirit, over the rest that you, it'sme, say mean the Spirit is otherwise. Those that are metaphors are probably the ones in the minority. Does Yahweh condone his Spirit possessing people? Absolutely, but it is our choice to surrender to God.

 

[it'sme]

We had this discussion, with my answer to that, before. There are other gods mentioned in the Bible, but they are so from human recognition. God never made another god. God as we see does not acknowledge any other being as truly God. The "gods" mentioned are those of human recognition. Satan is not approved to be a god by God himself, only acknowledged as such with human recognition. As we know Yahweh said in Isaiah,
"Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. I am Yahweh, and there is none else, there is no God beside me". God gives no recognition to any other god.

Jehovah was never created. Jesus was the first born of creation. Thus he is God's Son. Jesus when on the earth gave credit to his Father who was in heaven. He even prayed to him. Jesus even said not my will but your will. Jesus when being resurrected to heaven said
(John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”

John 8:17, 18, RS: “[Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees:] In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.” (So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)
So Christendom is taking the side of the Pharisees, in this.

there is really no question in this at all. The Pharisees were not looking for truth, they were looking to keep what they had. Their life style. It is no different today.

 

[Der Alte]

Do you also agree that wisdom is a father and can have children?

Do you have any vss. in mind or what? The fact that other things are spoken of in personified terms, once or twice, is NOT relevant to anything! That does NOT prove anything at all about the Holy Spirit! I just listed at least seventy two personal characteristics applied to the Holy Spirit and guess what you haven't made any attempt to address any of them. That is what you must do, disprove a majority of those 72, not just claim something else is personified a few times.

Do you also agree that sin and death are kings with countries of their own?

Same reply. None of this proves that the H.S. is NOT a person. Just saying something else may or may not have been personified, 1-2 times, does NOT prove anything about the H.S.

If ones become filled with holy spirit, does that means they are possessed?

Or does it mean that we get help from Jehovah through his energy and power?
Can the holy spirit possess more than one person at a time?

Same question to you, if one is filled with the Father or Jesus does that mean they are possessed? Can Jesus or the Father fill/possess more than one person at a time?

Satan and his demons did an unnatural thing by possessing people before the flood. So does Jehovah condone this.

Do you have specific verses in mind? If so, what do you think this proves?

Names of the Spirit

1. God -Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17
2. Lord - 2 Cor. 3:18
3. Spirit - 1 Cor. 2:10
4. Spirit of God - 1 Cor. 3:16
5. Spirit of Truth - John 15:26
6. Eternal Spirit - Heb. 9:14

God is a title there are many Gods. Satan is called a God.
Lord also is a title like Lord Nelson.
Spirit can mean breath, or a spirit person, Satan is a spirit person. Spirit has many meanings.

So what? How does this prove anything about the ninety one (91) vss. and seventy two (72) personal characteristics I listed? Other than the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is there anything else in the Bible who is called Spirit, God, Spirit of Truth, Eternal Spirit, etc?

Spirit of God can also mean his vital force or power.

Cite some vss. which show this?

Spirit of truth, can mean he has spirit, in the way we mean when a person gets knocked down and he keeps getting up, we say he has spirit. So this is spirit for the truth.
Eternal, just means forever. So Jehovah can use his spirit ( or active force , or power )forever.

So what, saying something can be this or that does NOT prove anything! None of this proves anything about my post. If you are going to try to prove something about the Holy Spirit you will have to PROVE that a majority of the vss. I posted do not mean what they say. Just saying that one or two other things are personified a few times does NOT prove anything about the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's active force or power.

There is NOT one single verse in the entire Bible which states or implies this.

Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.​

This passage, Act 5:3-4, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.

Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.​

This passage Act 28:25-27, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [יהוה/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see יהוה/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]​

This passage, Heb 10:15-17, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [יהוה/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Ps 95:10]
11[/b] So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]​

This passage, Heb 3:7-11, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.

Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Deu 1:34 And the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,​

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[it'sme]

So what? How does this prove anything about the ninety one (91) vss. and seventy two (72) personal characteristics I listed? Other than the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is there anything else in the Bible who is called Spirit, God, Spirit of Truth, Eternal Spirit, etc?

The so what ,is all the contradictions you have to have to understanding the meaning of this .

I was wondering what you though of the question I posed.

If as Christendom says, men that died before Jesus ,have an after life. So why did Jesus die, to give man life? Since, as Christrendom says they already had it.
This is a contradiction?
I was wondering why you don't answer this?

 

[Der Alte]

The so what ,is all the contradictions you have to have to understanding the meaning of this .

You haven't mentioned any contradictions concerning the Holy Spirit.

I was wondering what you though of the question I posed.

If as Christendom says, men that died before Jesus ,have an after life. So why did Jesus die, to give man life? Since, as Christrendom says they already had it.
This is a contradiction?
I was wondering why you don't answer this?

There is no such thing as "Christendom!" I am Christian! The general term for the historical Christian faith is "Christianity." if you want to discuss that let me know. But before we get to this, are you going to answer all the questions I have asked you and you have ignored? For example, you quoted from Hislop's "Too Babble On" You claimed it proved that the Trinity was copied from Babylon but in fact Hislop said pagan religions copied and misrepresented "the Triune God."

Next question. You claim that life after death is pagan. If that is true why would both God and Jesus use pagan lies to speak truth to God's people? I have posted the vss. several times. All I have seen is you saying "It is symbolic.""It is symbolic." What kind of truth does God and Jesus use pagan lies to symbolize?

And OBTW I have already answered your question more than once.

 

[it'sme]

Ok I'll rephrase it.

Many in Christianity, say that when you die,your spirit or soul lives on. This means that before Jesus came to the earth and died for mankind, these ones had an after life. So why did Jesus die, to give man life, since, they already had it?
And since the animals have the same eventuality as us, does that mean Jesus died for them also?

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.

 

[Der Alte]

Ok I'll rephrase it.

Many in Christianity, say that when you die,your spirit or soul lives on. This means that before Jesus came to the earth and died for mankind, these ones had an after life. So why did Jesus die, to give man life, since, they already had it?
And since the animals have the same eventuality as us, does that mean Jesus died for them also?

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. [Mark 12:27, Luk 20:38]

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.​

 

[2ducklow]

This is interesting in what you said , because you do have to think independently and yet have the same understanding about God and the bible . This is exactly what I was talking about. We all have diffent backgrounds come from different countries, we different personalities. And yet we have the same understanding, we get the same information world wide with in 24 hours.
I can tell you many things about this, but you have to experience it. Isn't this what you would expect from God's organization on earth.

your JW magazine says JW's are not to engage in independant thinking, you say you do. So looks like you're not united with them on this.

Also, aren't you JW's forbidden to come into debate forums like this? which would be another example of you not being in unity with JW's. I've heard other JW's , one I worked with, say that you guys are not to come into christian debate forums. so you are not in unity with that JW. so where's the unity you speak of. I found 3 examples right off the bat.

 

[it'sme]

your JW magazine says JW's are not to engage in independant thinking, you say you do. So looks like you're not united with them on this.

Also, aren't you JW's forbidden to come into debate forums like this? which would be another example of you not being in unity with JW's. I've heard other JW's , one I worked with, say that you guys are not to come into christian debate forums. so you are not in unity with that JW. so where's the unity you speak of. I found 3 examples right off the bat.

Non independent thinking on the scripture is correct.
And we are not encouraged to debate others, it can be a danger, to some. So I think that is a good reminder, I was enjoying these conversations, it helped me to talk to some because I am on a disability. I don't get out that much right now.
So I think I will leave you guys to your own ways.
But you can never say someone didn't tell you.