Having To Attend Class: Question

[~Beauty_from_Pain~]

So do you like the fact that some teachers base some of our grades (if not a lot) on class participation? Does this bother anyone else but me? I mean, I'm a good student. I get good grades. I pay them to teach me...so..why should my grades fall because I can't always make it to class? Does this bother anyone else?

 

[vibrant]

no. participation and attendance benefits us more than our professors. giving it a mark value provides an incentive for us to do something that's actually in our best interest.

 

[Boss_BlueAngels]

Starling, you're not alone! I dispise it when teachers want us all to gather and talk about previous assignments, or readings. Like you said... I'm paying the Prof to be the professional in that situation. They know the material, not the idiot hung-over freshman next to me. (sadly, this has happened).

Asking questions is fine, but FORCING everyone (ie by grading us down for not asking questions) I believe is completely stupid.

 

[zmastah]

If you ask me, it really says something about a professor when you are able to miss a few classes and can still pass the course with an A. I have friends that have missed all but a few classes from certain professors, and they still aced the course. It kinda makes me think that that class was never very important or challenging to begin with. Then again, I know other professors that, if you miss even one day, you fall so far behind that it jeopardizes your grade. But I guess that kind of thing is something to keep in mind come evaluation time.

 

[fishstix]

So do you like the fact that some teachers base some of our grades (if not a lot) on class participation? Does this bother anyone else but me? I mean, I'm a good student. I get good grades. I pay them to teach me...so..why should my grades fall because I can't always make it to class? Does this bother anyone else?

It can be rather frustrating for a professor to constantly have a good portion of the class missing. Sure, some of those may actually need to miss the class for a good reason, such as being horribly ill or something. But most of them are just skipping or double booked their time. One would think that people who are paying to be in class would show up to get their money's worth, but it doesn't seem to work that way. One motive behind participation grades might be to provide a little extra incentive for students to actually show up in class.

It can also be really frustrating for a professor when he/she is trying to have a class discussion and the same few people are the only ones who ever say anything while everyone else just sits back and doesn't participate. There are a number of reasons why a professor might choose to have class discussions in the first place, other than laziness.

A good professor is going to use a variety of teaching techniques to keep the class interesting and to have something for students with different learning styles. In-class group discussions can certainly have a place in a university class, as some people do learn better by talking themselves than by listening to a prof lecture. And in university classes, there is often room for original thought by the students - not everything is written down in stone in textbooks. Group discussions can be a way for the professor to make sure that everyone is keeping up with the class material and is actually thinking about it instead of just pushing it aside until the night before the midterm. Also, certain subjects can really become biased by opinion - a professor can show respect to the students by allowing them to express their opinions to the class instead of just teaching his opinion as if it were a fact. Sure, sometimes students will come up with comments that are completely wrong or based on ignorance - but that gives the rest of the class the opportunity to learn how to sift through information and pick out what is useful and what is not (certainly a skill needed in real life). So even the dumb comment by the hung-over freshman may be a learning opportunity.

 

[zmastah]

Fishtix has some great points. And usually professors can pretty much tell which students are the slackers and which students have valid reasons for missing class. Another thing that you'll notice is that the slackers start to get weeded out the further into classes you go, though they won't be gone completely.

And teaching can be challenging. There are some classes where lecture is definitely valid, such as literature classes. I expect my professors to have us discuss the texts. But that's mainly because there's so much of a difference of interpretation when it comes to literature. And I imagine that in those settings, it can be frustrating for the professor to stand up there and receive nothing but blank stares from his/her students because none of the students did any of the reading.

At the same time, I wouldn't really expect to see much discussion coming out of a calculus class. But that's just me.

So, I think what it comes down to is that you get from class what you put into it. Umm...yeah.

 

[septemberskies]

I think there is a good medium. I do think students should attend class and participate (meaning that they should be teacher-student interaction to understand the material better and for the teacher to get feedback on how he or she is teaching the course).

But i don't think you should get away with never showing up, or get penalized for missing one day either... i mean in both cases that's not fair.

I agree when fishstix when he said: "Group discussions can be a way for the professor to make sure that everyone is keeping up with the class material and is actually thinking about it instead of just pushing it aside until the night before the midterm". I know that for me if i get to an exam and maybe i missed something in the book, i'm able to recall what we've talked about in class and successfully answer the question anyhow.

I've had two professor this semester that made attendance apart of the grade. The first one gives everyone an A but lowers the grade for every two classes you miss or leave in the middle of class (he was sneaky about it too because it said it in the syllabus but he never announced how the grading would work in class). The second professer made 20% of your grade attendance, but she didn't actually take class role, she took a picture of everyone and just tried to remember who came to class often and remember us all by name... that was just stupid. Memory isn't always reliable so she may end up lowering a person's grade because she assumed someone wasn't there.


So i guess the answer is that it depends on the terms of the attendance/participation grading. If its within reason (like 3 unexcused absences will result in a lowered grade)than its fair to me. I also think you should be encouraged to speak but not forced.Some professor i had before use speaking in class as more of an incentive for extra points which wasn't a half bad idea because your learning and helping your grade.

 

[MetalBlade]

I love it, because it is essentially the easiest way to attain points for a course!

 

[Llauralin]

So do you like the fact that some teachers base some of our grades (if not a lot) on class participation? Does this bother anyone else but me? I mean, I'm a good student. I get good grades. I pay them to teach me...so..why should my grades fall because I can't always make it to class? Does this bother anyone else?

No.

There's a lot of really important stuff that goes on in class, and I'm somewhat more annoyed when teachers could care less if I come or not. If I wanted to read a book and take a few tests to learn about something, that's what I'd do. Class time is about interaction between students and the professor, and is important.

 

[Matt.9:22]

I disagree. I think that attendance separates the good students from the excellent students. When we get in to the work force, do you really htink you could legitimately argue to your boss "I'm a really good worker, and I know how to do my job. I don't think my pay should be docked just because I can't always make it to work"? No!

 

[Wroth]

I disagree. I think that attendance separates the good students from the excellent students. When we get in to the work force, do you really htink you could legitimately argue to your boss "I'm a really good worker, and I know how to do my job. I don't think my pay should be docked just because I can't always make it to work"? No!

I don't agree with that analogy. I've missed a total of... 6, maybe 7 days of work across 3 summers, mostly with a horrible flu (3 days one summer) or having a rather important personal matter the evening before (friends I was with were drugged... that killed me getting home before 6 am... my normal wakeup for work), etc... And yet I bust my butt every day at work.

School, on the other hand... I pay to learn, yes, but the testing of that knowledge is the key thing. If I understand what is needed to pass the course, I have gotten what I paid for - credit and certification in that course. Going to class is sometimes worse than staying home and reading the textbook - some of my friends commented the other day, "So you've got the right idea for math - going to class confuses you more than staying home and sleeping." I understood the lab handed out that day perfectly fine. Or at least as well as the other guys. At some point this'll catch me, but my habits have changed lately anyways, attending more and more classes, so as of next semester, when the other shoe drops, I'll be awake and in class to catch it.

 

[Singin4Him]

I agree with the fact that in the "real world" you can't miss work and expect to be paid the same for your self chosen day off. If it's a legitimate excuse like a family emergency that's one thing but if you're just skipping that in my opinion should be taken off for. You may be paying to learn but your teachers are also being paid to teach. It's very disrespectful to skip just because you don't want to go to class. You shouldn't expect to just be able to do what you please, there should be stipulations this teaches us responsibilities and prepares us for careers and just responsibilities in general.

If you feel the need to skip so much that it effects your grades then college might not be for you.

 

[Llauralin]

I don't agree with that analogy. I've missed a total of... 6, maybe 7 days of work across 3 summers, mostly with a horrible flu (3 days one summer) or having a rather important personal matter the evening before (friends I was with were drugged... that killed me getting home before 6 am... my normal wakeup for work), etc... And yet I bust my butt every day at work.

School, on the other hand... I pay to learn, yes, but the testing of that knowledge is the key thing. If I understand what is needed to pass the course, I have gotten what I paid for - credit and certification in that course. Going to class is sometimes worse than staying home and reading the textbook - some of my friends commented the other day, "So you've got the right idea for math - going to class confuses you more than staying home and sleeping." I understood the lab handed out that day perfectly fine. Or at least as well as the other guys. At some point this'll catch me, but my habits have changed lately anyways, attending more and more classes, so as of next semester, when the other shoe drops, I'll be awake and in class to catch it.

But you're going entirely on the assumption that a class is necessarily ONLY about aquiring information, but not applying that information and displaying competency in the area the class covers in other ways. While there are indeed many classes where that assumption would be valid, there are nearly as many where it would not. We also have to do presentations, and watch other people's presentations because they need an audience to get anything out of the experience. I'm an art ed. major, and art lab classes absolutly need mandatory class time - and weekend time to fire the kilns, and studio cleaning time, and critiques, etc. There's a name for classes you don't regularly attend; it's independent study.

Personally, I consider it to be very valid, and even a good idea for a professor to include questions in the test that were covored in class time only, and are not in the textbook, as some of mine have done.

If college were only about information for tests, I would be at home reading a book, not at college.

EDIT: and a bad flue is generally considered a valid excuse, and not counted against you. Except sometimes, when it's really important - I had to go to final critique and an essay test with a flue, but I really did survive the experience, because it was essential to the class.

 

[Wroth]

But you're going entirely on the assumption that a class is necessarily ONLY about aquiring information, but not applying that information and displaying competency in the area the class covers in other ways. While there are indeed many classes where that assumption would be valid, there are nearly as many where it would not. We also have to do presentations, and watch other people's presentations because they need an audience to get anything out of the experience. I'm an art ed. major, and art lab classes absolutly need mandatory class time - and weekend time to fire the kilns, and studio cleaning time, and critiques, etc. There's a name for classes you don't regularly attend; it's independent study.

Personally, I consider it to be very valid, and even a good idea for a professor to include questions in the test that were covored in class time only, and are not in the textbook, as some of mine have done.

If college were only about information for tests, I would be at home reading a book, not at college.

EDIT: and a bad flue is generally considered a valid excuse, and not counted against you. Except sometimes, when it's really important - I had to go to final critique and an essay test with a flue, but I really did survive the experience, because it was essential to the class.

I guess I see your point. But the difference also might be from our courses - I have no courses from the Arts faculty. Every course is from the Engineering or Sciences department, and there are a few redundant courses that just are stupid to go to. I've had math majors and even teachers asking why we're being taught some stuff in math because even to *them* it's simply theoretical and useless for any real life application (integrate: arctan(cos(sin(arccos(x-sin(x))))) or something stupid like that. I emailed my dad, a math prof, and he just emailed me back "Why?") I can't say I've actually had a class where the teacher gave us the answers or something like that to the test, though there have been times where the review questions from the previous year were actually the midterm exam questions. Knowing the answer to double check your solution against it is an amazing surprise gift.

But it's somewhat of a moot point right now for me anyways... I have to attend class next semester, if only to relieve some of the exam-time stress and get some easy marks from actually being constantly reminded about the assignment due-dates. That was killer this semester and the finals might be about ready to take me out back and beat me mercilessly with a club. Though from what I understand... no one else I know understand the material either and they all did horribly on the midterms too... I don't know what to make of it. I guess it would have made it easy for me to pull the high marks out of the curve had I really known what was happening.

EDIT: About the flu, definately was horrible - nearly collapsed at work on my 3rd last shift and got sent home. Missed the next two (and final) shifts then had to try to play in my football team's innaugural games (I was one of my school's innaugural captains). Worst football games of my career. Normally played almost 90% of the games, maybe played 45% of the match, and blew a buncha plays.

 

[fishstix]

I guess I see your point. But the difference also might be from our courses - I have no courses from the Arts faculty. Every course is from the Engineering or Sciences department, and there are a few redundant courses that just are stupid to go to. I've had math majors and even teachers asking why we're being taught some stuff in math because even to *them* it's simply theoretical and useless for any real life application (integrate: arctan(cos(sin(arccos(x-sin(x))))) or something stupid like that. I emailed my dad, a math prof, and he just emailed me back "Why?") I can't say I've actually had a class where the teacher gave us the answers or something like that to the test, though there have been times where the review questions from the previous year were actually the midterm exam questions. Knowing the answer to double check your solution against it is an amazing surprise gift.

The difference is more likely the professors and curriculum at your school. I took mainly science classes. While a few of them were as you describe, the majority of them were classes where a person did learn things by attending that weren't found in the textbooks. Professors usually do emphasize certain concepts that end up appearing on tests. Someone who hasn't been attending class won't know which those concepts are. Sometimes the professor will even say right out that something is especially important to remember.

 

[Adela]

It bothers me but none of my professors have been too strict on it. Some will drop people after the third absence no matter the reason. I think that's pretty insensitive. It doesn't necessarily reflect how you will be as an employee. It hurts your employer if you don't show, but it doesn't affect a professor.

 

[renaistre]

So do you like the fact that some teachers base some of our grades (if not a lot) on class participation? Does this bother anyone else but me? I mean, I'm a good student. I get good grades. I pay them to teach me...so..why should my grades fall because I can't always make it to class? Does this bother anyone else?

It doesn't bother me if it's like 5% of the grade. If it's 10% it's borderline, and it depends on the teacher. Any more than that would bother me.

That's all assuming we're not talking about labs, of course. Also, I don't mind it as much when it's not a straight attendance grade. If you can get your points by being attentive, asking questions, and generally being involved in the class, even though you might miss a few sessions, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[orange crush]

I just find that often I am 10 times more productive if I do not go to class. Taking all math classes, there is only so much you can learn that isnt in the text book (theres actually very little). I find that when I go to class I pick up and understand the concept, and thus can figure out its applications, within the first 10 mins of class and then proceed to try and stay awake as he explains this more indepth and uses examples and stuff to help those that dont pick it up so quickly.

I'm not saying that its the profs fault, because its not, they are doing their job to make it clear for all of the students. My problem is that I often feel like I'm way ahead of the game, and get really bored, so I just dont go.

 

[Terri12345]

I ditch about half of the sessions in most of my classes. I only attend the hard classes or the classes that pertain directly to my major.

In fact, I've started taking as many classes as I can online; I prefer to teach myself and not to have to listen to professors' "stories" or when they go off on a tangent.

At my school, the taechers are required to go over their syllabus the first day and let us know if attendance counts as part of the grade. I have dropped a few classes after the first day because of attendance policies. I have better things to do a lot. Sometimes I have to go into work, sometimes the weather is bad and I dont' feel like driving the 45 mins to school. I can learn on my own and I don't need to be "babysat" like in highschool

 

[EbonNelumbo]

I'm with Terri. College is great but I have a real life that cannot revolve constantly around it.
I love college but seriously major stuff has arisen.

I had to take a cognition upper division psychology course as well as a human interaction course. Neither were all that important, ie just review of what we read, but still attendance was seriously like 40%. It was ridiculous.

Attendance should be optional by college. If you're 18 and don't know better than not to skip every class, yay the college has your money for more repairs through fees and youre going to be there with your grandkids. I think it's utter disrespect to hold college students in check for whether or not they attend classes.