Have your core beliefs ever changed?

Servant of Jesus · Nov 16, 2008

My core beliefs:

A Christian is a person who willingly believes:

1. That the Universe was created by God.
(Genesis 1:1)

2. That the Bible is divinely inspired by God, and describes how we are to live our lives in a manner that is pleasing to God.
(Matthew 24:14)

3. That we are all sinners and as such, are destined to go to hell.
(Romans 3:23)

4. That God came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ and promised that if we repent of our sins, and ask God through the power of the Holy Spirit to guide us through life according to His will, that we will have eternal life and a place with Him in Heaven.
(John 3:16)

They haven't changed although I probably didn't really think about them as well as I do now.

Floatingaxe · Nov 16, 2008

MoNiCa4316 said:
I wonder if satan could give me a greater awareness of my sins and a desire to repent of them? a kingdom divided against itself can not stand..

Self-awareness tells us what is right and wrong, and reveals where we go astray in addition to the Holy Spirit, but Satan offers subtle condemnation that we have all known.

Yes, a kingdom divided against itself will never stand---for long.

if you're praying in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit...and asking Christ's Mother to pray for you...and God decides how to answer.. I don't see that as misdirected prayers. Misdirected prayer would be something like..asking Buddha to heal your friend. Asking Mary to pray to God so that He heals your friend, that's different.

One crosses the line when adding any one person or thing or god as the receiver of one's prayer. God will not share his glory with another! It is a breach of the commandments to commit such idolatry.

Mary can't hear you. She only has ears for Christ.

We don't pray TO Saints, we ask them to pray for us.

Where does it say that we can only 'talk to' Christ? All it says is that we shouldnt' worship anyone but Him. Well..all is well, since Catholics only worship God too.

Saints don't pray. They don't hear you. Asking dead people to pray for you is only a futile religious act. Jesus hates the religious.

Catholics worship countless things apart from God. It is a soiled religion.

How do you know? Have you studied the theology in depth? Have you read what the Church MEANS by "Mediatrix"? I have. I think it is strange to say the least when non Catholics attempt to tell us what our own Church teaches. hmm... you can disagree, but unless you have studied our theology in depth, and read the Pope's encyclicals, the Catechism, etc, you can't say what we teach or don't teach, I'm sorry.

Anything believed to mediate on behalf of anyone with God apart from Christ is from the demonic.

God's Word is not to be argued with, but believed and followed.

Actually, what all those verses talk about is necromancy. Asking the dead for information. (check out the passages..)
We don't do this.

Yep, you do. It's the same sin with the same consequence.

I never said it was about feelings. I simply asked God to show me what the truth is, and got an answer.

Asked God alone through Jesus Christ? That is the only way you will see His answer.

The Bible tells us to stay true to the traditions taught by word OR letter. If you research the early Church, you'll see they asked the Martyrs for their intercession. The early Church martyrs.. I find it difficult to believe that the Church went SO wrong SO soon and God didn't do anything for 1500 years? and did you know that even the Reformers, like Martin Luther, had no problem with Mary?

and the very idea that 'we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses'.. that means that they are with us, they're not dead.

Peace

Of course they are alive in Christ, but not available to you!

Tradition is a Catholic thing, and the admonition in the first place has been taken WAY out of context! It is not taught in Scripture to hold to tradition at the expense of Scriptural truth!

Floatingaxe · Nov 16, 2008

As I have responded with the truth, I believe that this kind of argument is not suitable for the non-denominational forum or this thread, and so I am done with it. There are other fora where this can be conducted.

MoNiCa4316 · Nov 16, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
One crosses the line when adding any one person or thing or god as the receiver of one's prayer. God will not share his glory with another! It is a breach of the commandments to commit such idolatry.

God is ALWAYS the receiver of our prayers, even when we pray to Mary, because we ask her to pray for us TO God. He is the one who answers.

Saints don't pray. They don't hear you.

if I were in Heaven, and saw more clearly the darkness here on earth... wouldnt I want to pray for my brothers and sisters here? I would btw. So do the Saints and anyone, really.

Asking dead people to pray for you is only a futile religious act. Jesus hates the religious.

so you are saying He hates me?

Jesus doesn't hate the religious. He doesn't hate anyone. He however is against the actions of those who have forgotten about love. MANY Catholics I know are very "religious" (by your definition) AND very loving.

Catholics worship countless things apart from God. It is a soiled religion.

well thank you very much for informing me on my own faith.

Asked God alone through Jesus Christ? That is the only way you will see His answer.

I was a Protestant and asked God to show me the truth, He lead me right to many Catholic ideas. Soo that's my story.

Of course they are alive in Christ, but not available to you!

the Saints are filled with God's love, they love what He loves..which is us.. that is how they are Christ-like, by loving what He loves..

Tradition is a Catholic thing, and the admonition in the first place has been taken WAY out of context! It is not taught in Scripture to hold to tradition at the expense of Scriptural truth!

well thankfully it's not at the expense of Scriptural truth.

I will only say one last final thing.

If you ask God to show you, and keep an open heart, He will show you, what He wills. God bless.

Floatingaxe · Nov 16, 2008

MoNiCa4316 said:
God is ALWAYS the receiver of our prayers, even when we pray to Mary, because we ask her to pray for us TO God. He is the one who answers.

No He won't. The prayer is offered as sullied, unclean.

if I were in Heaven, and saw more clearly the darkness here on earth... wouldnt I want to pray for my brothers and sisters here? I would btw. So do the Saints and anyone, really.

Scriptural proof that those who have gone before us have eyes for anything other than their Messiah, please.

so you are saying He hates me?

He hates religion.

Jesus doesn't hate the religious. He doesn't hate anyone. He however is against the actions of those who have forgotten about love. MANY Catholics I know are very "religious" (by your definition) AND very loving.

He hates religiosity. Love of God prompts one to obey, not pollute one's faith with extra-biblical notions.

I was a Protestant and asked God to show me the truth, He lead me right to many Catholic ideas. Soo that's my story.

Yes it is.

the Saints are filled with God's love, they love what He loves..which is us.. that is how they are Christ-like, by loving what He loves..

They have nothing to do with us. They are experiencing their own reward. Leave them alone.

I will only say one last final thing.

If you ask God to show you, and keep an open heart, He will show you, what He wills. God bless.

Only if you ask GOD in the name of Jesus.

MoNiCa4316 · Nov 16, 2008

I am not replying anymore, because this debate is clearly going nowhere and I do not see the point of it.. it is up to God to judge me, and my prayers. And I'll never believe that Mary's prayers are unclean; her prayers are better than mine.

Peace

Floatingaxe · Nov 16, 2008

Mary doesn't pray anymore. Believing in the fairy tale that somehow she hears and one can mix in one's petition and supplication with a dead person is submitting non-prayer. Such prayers go directly to the one who steals them, kills and destroys---and deceives.

MoNiCa4316 · Nov 16, 2008

Cassidy · Nov 16, 2008

How would mary's prayers be better than anyone elses?

PreachersWife2004 · Nov 17, 2008

MOD HAT ON

Just a friendly reminder to get this thread back on topic. Which is:

I'm interested to know if anyone has ever experienced a change in their core Christian beliefs.

I'm not referring to gaining deeper understanding but more so regarding a completely opposit belief of a previous belief.

This is something that has been on my mind for quite some time...any input is welcomed and appreciated.

If you want to continue to debate RCC theology or anyone else's theology, do it outside of this thread.

MOD HAT OFF

Floatingaxe · Nov 18, 2008

13-year-olds need salvation as well. They don;t often make great decisions, although those young people I know who have decided to follow Jesus will take them through life in richness and strength that those without Christ lack--and on into eternity.

There is time for another core belief change! Jesus is alive and wants to have a loving relationship with you!

Nadiine · Nov 18, 2008

logical_one said:
yep, used to be christian.

then I started thinking instead of blindly following, and became an atheist.

I was 13.

Well most all Christians don't follow the Lord blindly, we know Him
and have a personal relationship.
There's a HUGE difference in believing a God exists but not
ever having an intimate relationship where He reveals Himself to you inwardly and where you carry a deep relationship together

Matt. 13 talks about this basically in the parable of the soils.

Bro.T · Nov 18, 2008

e. barrett said:
I grew up believing in a legalistic, formal, "check box" kind of God. I thought that I had to work to gain acceptance, and as long as I was "good" I'd be alright.

I don't believe that anymore, and I now understand that there's nothing I can do to earn my salvation.

I'd say that represented a pretty big change in my core belief as to who God was. Although obviously I was wrong in my initial belief. I suspect there will always be important theological points that will change as I gain more understanding as to who God is.

e. barrett said:
I grew up believing in a legalistic, formal, "check box" kind of God. I thought that I had to work to gain acceptance, and as long as I was "good" I'd be alright.

Thats almost like slapping yourself in the face, right, cause now you're not good anymore. Sounds like you where going something right once upon a time.

For the record.....

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I know this is a little off topic.

Nadiine · Nov 18, 2008

tanzel said:
Thats almost like slapping yourself in the face, right, cause now you're not good anymore. Sounds like you where going something right once upon a time.

For the record.....

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I know this is a little off topic.

Well it's a matter of what saves us - trying not to sin, or trusting in Christ alone who pays for our sin...

Absolutely trying not to sin & obeying God isn't going to get anyone into heaven (ie. the Pharisees obeyed every law yet didn't know God) -

But if someone is going to claim it isn't about checkboxes (do's & dont's) & thinks they can just do what they want & God doesn't care, that's just as false. Besides, genuine believers don't continue in sin which is a fruit / evidence of the saved soul.
They work in tandum.

MoNiCa4316 · Nov 18, 2008

Nadiine said:
Well most all Christians don't follow the Lord blindly, we know Him
and have a personal relationship.
There's a HUGE difference in believing a God exists but not
ever having an intimate relationship where He reveals Himself to you inwardly and where you carry a deep relationship together

Matt. 13 talks about this basically in the parable of the soils.

amen.

Josiah14 · Nov 21, 2008

Yep. I used to be Evangelical Protestant. Now I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian, which takes a very different approach to Christianity than any branch of Christianity in the West does (including Roman Catholicism).

Forgive me, a sinner,
Josiah

Josiah14 · Nov 21, 2008

Nadiine said:
Well it's a matter of what saves us - trying not to sin, or trusting in Christ alone who pays for our sin...

Absolutely trying not to sin & obeying God isn't going to get anyone into heaven (ie. the Pharisees obeyed every law yet didn't know God) -

But if someone is going to claim it isn't about checkboxes (do's & dont's) & thinks they can just do what they want & God doesn't care, that's just as false. Besides, genuine believers don't continue in sin which is a fruit / evidence of the saved soul.
They work in tandum.

It's not about trying to obey God, its about trying to love Him. Christ Himself is Heaven. If we don't love Him, how could we hope to love Heaven? It is written "I am your crown, your very great reward". God is our reward. If we hate our reward, then Heaven would torment us. Hell is just the minimal ammount of God's presence that it is possible to give to those who don't desire God. Since God is the giver of life, separation from God is painful because it is separation from the source of life - this separation brings death. For those in Hell, it means eternal death.

Likewise, the fear of God is fear of God's disappointment. Think of how it feels to disappoint someone who loves you deeply. How much miore does God Love us deeply? This fear of God keeps us on the straight and narrow.

Forgive me, a sinner,
Josiah

Floatingaxe · Nov 21, 2008

If we hate our reward, then Heaven would torment us.

You bet.

However, if we would hate our reward, then you can be sure it would be hell's torment we will be facing, anyway.

Hell is just the minimal ammount of God's presence that it is possible to give to those who don't desire God.

That's a fairy tale. The presecnce of Jesus Christ is absent from that unholy place. That's the point of hell.

Nadiine · Nov 22, 2008

Josiah14 said:
It's not about trying to obey God, its about trying to love Him. Christ Himself is Heaven. If we don't love Him, how could we hope to love Heaven? It is written "I am your crown, your very great reward". God is our reward. If we hate our reward, then Heaven would torment us. Hell is just the minimal ammount of God's presence that it is possible to give to those who don't desire God. Since God is the giver of life, separation from God is painful because it is separation from the source of life - this separation brings death. For those in Hell, it means eternal death.

Likewise, the fear of God is fear of God's disappointment. Think of how it feels to disappoint someone who loves you deeply. How much miore does God Love us deeply? This fear of God keeps us on the straight and narrow.

Forgive me, a sinner,
Josiah

K, Christ Himself is not heaven - He is God.
Metaphors are used often in scripture to describe God & aspects or attributes of Him to us.

But most any nonChristian will tell you they LOVE the idea of heaven (reward) - just not serving God & living obediently (or they claim they serve God when biblically, they really don't at all)....

Tonks · Nov 22, 2008

Core beliefs? No. I did switch from Catholic to Orthodox but that was more an issue of theological praxis and ecclesiology.

Have your core beliefs ever changed?

Have your core Christian beliefs ever change?

No

Yes

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