Have you got a rational explanation for the so-called Miracle of the Sun at Fatima?

Red Gold

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2019
3,175
781
77
Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, Germany
✟95,533.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Here is a description of that Miracle of the Sun:

Estimates of the number of people present range from 30,000 and 40,000, by Avelino de Almeida writing for the Portuguese newspaper O Século,[15] to 100,000, estimated by lawyer José Almeida Garrett.[16][17]

Various claims have been made as to what actually happened during the event. According to many witnesses, after a period of rain, the dark clouds broke and the Sun appeared as an opaque, spinning disc in the sky. It was said to be significantly duller than normal, and to cast multicolored lights across the landscape, the people, and the surrounding clouds. The Sun was then reported to have careened towards the Earth before zig-zagging back to its normal position.[18][19] Witnesses reported that their previously wet clothes became "suddenly and completely dry, as well as the wet and muddy ground that had been previously soaked because of the rain that had been falling".[20] Not all witnesses reported seeing the Sun "dance". Some people only saw the radiant colors. Several people saw nothing.[8][21][22]

Skeptic Brian Dunning commented on an image commonly mistaken for a photograph of the Sun taken at Fatima: "An old black and white photograph of the actual sun miracle event shows a lot of dark rain clouds behind some trees and the sun poking through. There is certainly nothing in the photograph that looks unusual, but of course a photograph is static. Whatever the crowd saw was not interesting enough to be noticeable in a photograph".[9][10] The photograph, originally published in 1951 by L'Osservatore Romano was subsequently determined to have been taken approximately eight years later in a different Portugal town of a different solar phenomenon. The misattributed image, however, continues to circulate on the internet.[23]


Have you got a rational explanation for the so-called Miracle of the Sun at Fatima?
 

Mountainmike

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
4,614
1,592
66
Northern uk
✟561,189.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Why do you expect a rational explanation?

Here are the facts.
1/ over 3 months before it happened the apparition promised a miracle so that
“ all would see and believe “

2/ it was so publicised that 70000 showed up to see it , in a very hard place to get to!
3/ that included many professional witnesses like police, scientists ,
4/ more importantly many who came to mock including the atheist authorities deternined to wipe out religion in a generation and all leading secular newspapers. They wanted to report a “ no show” to kill religion once and for all.

5/ But at the appointed time and place a massive spectacle occurred . Torrential rain stopped, the clouds parted, a disc they assumed was the sun, whirled uncontrollably, radiating all colours , and seemed to drop to the earth.
Nothing like it was seen before or since. There are books full of witness statements
6/ All the journalists and witnesses confirmed it including all the secular newspapers
The famous headline in o seculo , “ como o sol baillou no meio-dia a Fatima” “ when the sun danced at midday at Fatima” reported all round the world.
many of the atheists converted after it.

Now to the critical facts.
7/ it was real not mass hypnosis , it was witnessed by those not expecting it even tens of km away.
8/ it was physical. The ground dried in minutes after torrential rain as the “sun” fell to the earth in a threatening way but if you know about that part of portugal puddles take weeks to disappear at that time of year. - I live there much of the time. Many witnesses confirm that. They were soaked and instantly dry.

So The undeniable miracle was prophecy fulfilled

9/ It does not matter what physics underlay it “ rational explanation “ if indeed it had one. Argue about meteorological events all you like!

Because a prophecy was fulfilled at a time and place, so extraordinary it cannot have been chance.
That by itself makes it scientifically inexplicable for all time.

The messages the lady left were frightening enough.
illiterate Children speaking of the threat and errors of Russia before Lenin and Trotsky had got their act together even!

It wasn’t the only prophecy,
- the unknown light heralding WWII in the reign of a pope not yet a pope, fulfilled in early 1938.
The so called red aurora covering all the Northern hemisphere , which Aurora just don’t do. But it did.
Days later hitler annexed Austria !
- even the children knew when they would die,
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

Mountainmike

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
4,614
1,592
66
Northern uk
✟561,189.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Of course.
I’m guessing almost all Catholics have. So strange question..
The history of why it was called Fatima is interesting.
As is speculating on why our lady chose it.

At zeitoun , in Egypt troubled by the brotherhood and attacks on copts
At Mary’s house in ephesus
And Fatima , the name of Mohammed’s daughter.
Its as if she is trying to call for peace with Muslims.
She is respectEd by both, so well placed to do so.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,654
56,276
Woods
✟4,677,288.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I’m guessing almost all Catholics have. So strange question..
The history of why it was called Fatima is interesting.
As is speculating on why our lady chose it.

At zeitoun , in Egypt troubled by the brotherhood and attacks on copts
At Mary’s house in ephesus
And Fatima , the name of Mohammed’s daughter.
Its as if she is trying to call for peace with Muslims.
She is respectEd by both, so well placed to do so.
It was one of the first things I read about when I was in the process of converting. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mountainmike
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mountainmike

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
4,614
1,592
66
Northern uk
✟561,189.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It was one of the first things I read about when I was in the process of converting. :)
As you know , it resonated with me so much I live near there half of the year. I can’t stay away!

Although watching “ the song of Bernadette “ when I was only in junior school made me realise Catholics were different. Our family friends who were catholic, clearly lived their faith too.
But it would be another 30 years of convincing myself, before I came Home!

We went on camping holidays with them including to france. We got to the Loire valley, we stayed and they carried on south. Nobody said where they were going. I was too young then to know where Lourdes was!!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

Red Gold

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2019
3,175
781
77
Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, Germany
✟95,533.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Why do you expect a rational explanation?

Here are the facts.
1/ over 3 months before it happened the apparition promised a miracle so that
“ all would see and believe “

2/ it was so publicised that 70000 showed up to see it , in a very hard place to get to!
3/ that included many professional witnesses like police, scientists ,
4/ more importantly many who came to mock including the atheist authorities deternined to wipe out religion in a generation and all leading secular newspapers. They wanted to report a “ no show” to kill religion once and for all.

5/ But at the appointed time and place a massive spectacle occurred . Torrential rain stopped, the clouds parted, a disc they assumed was the sun, whirled uncontrollably, radiating all colours , and seemed to drop to the earth.
Nothing like it was seen before or since. There are books full of witness statements
6/ All the journalists and witnesses confirmed it including all the secular newspapers
The famous headline in o seculo , “ como o sol baillou no meio-dia a Fatima” “ when the sun danced at midday at Fatima” reported all round the world.
many of the atheists converted after it.

Now to the critical facts.
7/ it was real not mass hypnosis , it was witnessed by those not expecting it even tens of km away.
8/ it was physical. The ground dried in minutes after torrential rain as the “sun” fell to the earth in a threatening way but if you know about that part of portugal puddles take weeks to disappear at that time of year. - I live there much of the time. Many witnesses confirm that. They were soaked and instantly dry.

So The undeniable miracle was prophecy fulfilled

9/ It does not matter what physics underlay it “ rational explanation “ if indeed it had one. Argue about meteorological events all you like!

Because a prophecy was fulfilled at a time and place, so extraordinary it cannot have been chance.
That by itself makes it scientifically inexplicable for all time.

The messages the lady left were frightening enough.
illiterate Children speaking of the threat and errors of Russia before Lenin and Trotsky had got their act together even!

It wasn’t the only prophecy,
- the unknown light heralding WWII in the reign of a pope not yet a pope, fulfilled in early 1938.
The so called red aurora covering all the Northern hemisphere , which Aurora just don’t do. But it did.
Days later hitler annexed Austria !
- even the children knew when they would die,
Sounds convincing!
 
Upvote 0

Red Gold

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2019
3,175
781
77
Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, Germany
✟95,533.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I quote a report:

On October 13, 1917, a crowd witnessed a miraculous event that was recorded by journalists, lawyers and scientists.​

Thousands of individuals gathered near Fatima, Portugal, on October 13, 1917, to witness the next apparition of Our Lady. What they saw was widely reported at the time and became known as the “Miracle of the Sun.”

According to various sources, Dr. Gonçalo de Almeida Garrett, Professor of Natural Sciences at Coimbra University, was there and later recalled what occurred. (As a note, some claim the account was actually given by Dr. Garrett’s son, Dr. José Almeida Garrett.)

Dr. Garrett explains in his account that at first nothing extraordinary occurred.

I was looking at the place of the apparitions, in a serene, if cold, expectation of something happening, and with diminishing curiosity, because a long time had passed without anything to excite my attention. Then I heard a shout from thousands of voices and saw the multitude suddenly turn its back and shoulders away from the point toward which up to now it had directed its attention, and turn to look at the sky on the opposite side.
What happened next defied all scientific reasoning.

It must have been nearly two o’clock by the legal time, and about midday by the sun. The sun, a few moments before, had broken through the thick layer of clouds which hid it, and shone clearly and intensely. I veered to the magnet which seemed to be drawing all eyes, and saw it as a disc with a clean-cut rim, luminous and shining, but which did not hurt the eyes. I do not agree with the comparison which I have heard made in Fátima—that of a dull silver disc. It was a clearer, richer, brighter color, having something of the luster of a pearl. It did not in the least resemble the moon on a clear night because one saw it and felt it to be a living body. It was not spheric like the moon, nor did it have the same color, tone, or shading. It looked like a glazed wheel made of mother-of-pearl. It could not be confused, either, with the sun seen through fog (for there was no fog at the time), because it was not opaque, diffused or veiled. In Fátima it gave light and heat and appeared clear-cut with a well-defined rim.
At first he feared what was happening and tried to turn away.

During the solar phenomenon, which I have just described in detail, there were changes of color in the atmosphere. Looking at the sun, I noticed that everything around was becoming darkened. I looked first at the nearest objects and then extended my glance further afield as far as the horizon. I saw everything an amethyst color. Objects around me, the sky and the atmosphere, were of the same color. An oak tree nearby threw a shadow of this color on the ground.
Fearing that I was suffering from an affection of the retina, an improbable explanation because in that case one could not see things purple-colored, I turned away and shut my eyes, keeping my hands before them to intercept the light. With my back still turned, I opened my eyes and saw that the landscape was the same purple color as before.

At the end of it, Dr. Garrett affirmed that he was in his right mind and was not suffering from a hallucination.

And in fact everything, both near and far, had changed, taking on the color of old yellow damask. People looked as if they were suffering from jaundice, and I recall a sensation of amusement at seeing them look so ugly and unattractive. My own hand was the same color. All the phenomena which I have described were observed by me in a calm and serene state of mind, and without any emotional disturbance. It is for others to interpret and explain them.
The Miracle of the Sun ushered in a new wave of devotion to Our Lady that remains to this day.
 
Upvote 0

Mountainmike

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
4,614
1,592
66
Northern uk
✟561,189.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Sounds convincing!
Sceptics try to focus on the event , to try to prove it was meterological ( therefore somehow natural)

It is irrelevant.
All we have to do is prove it was physical , ( the drying) so not hallucination , and it was clearly extraordinary, never happened again before or since.

The prophecy is then enough to say it was scientifically inexplicable
It happened at the appointed time and place so “ all would see and believe”

There are books full of witness statements , sadly many just in Portuguese.

There are many other fascinating details of Fatima.

Have you ever heard of the doves that accompanied the first journey of the pilgrim virgin( statue) to Lisbon?
They flew in at bombarral After which nobody could get them to leave her feet.
Then in the mass, at the moment of consecration at the cathedral in Lisbon two flew to either end of the altar with open wings, the other went to our lady’s crown.
Then after the mass all threes returned to her feet!!

It was so extraordinary , The newpapers focussed on the doves not the pilgrimage.!
Books have been written about doves who followed the pilgrim virgin wherever she went.
As some left or died, others flew in. None of them tethered. Nobody could get them to leave.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums