Have you ever...?

[NewHope2010]

Have you ever met a person who you thought was a superb example of someone advocating the principles of Christianity, in the way they treated people - only, they were not a Christian???

I have.

Now, ask yourself, as a Christian, putting aside the differences between your religious beliefs, do you feel you do just as good a job of advocating the Christian walk as they do, in the way YOU treat people?

I have asked myself this question before, and often realized that I had not done as good of a job - and I saw that in spite of my Christian beliefs, my attitude was towards others was to blame.

I'm not saying that you should look up to anyone. What I'm saying is, it's not good when a person can really say they've been treated better by people of the world, than they have by "church people."

And I think more of us have seen examples of this, even within ourselves, than we'd like to admit.

What are your thoughts?

 

[wayfaring man]

I think there can be a world of difference between calling oneself a Christian and actually being one...in fact (generally) calling oneself something which is noble or praiseworthy is contrary to Biblical / Christian Principles... therefore someone who doesn't call them self a Christian may indeed be more Christ-like than someone who does.

A lot of this feeling of needing to label or be labeled comes from man's pernicious penchant for waging war in the flesh ( and that comes from the distracter / deceiver )...for without the labeling the whole good guy / bad guy characterization / stereotype doesn't roll / get off the ground.

If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. <-----> John 5:31 ( Words of Jesus )

He that speaks of himself seeks his own glory: but he that seeks his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. <-----> John 7:18 ( Words of Jesus )

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. <-----> 2nd Corinthians 4:5

Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips. <-----> Proverbs 27:2

For one's own witness of them self is by it's very nature the most biased of witnesses, and when it speaks of high and lofty things this usually indicates conceitedness.

If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. <-----> Job 9:20

The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.
For he flatters himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.
The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good. <-----> Psalm 36:1-3

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remains. <-----> John 9:39-41

Having a real high opinion of oneself can be a real stumbling block on the path to sanctification.

Of course the extreme opposite isn't any better...which is why we are counseled in Scripture -

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. <-----> Romans 12:3

Ultimately, it's not what we call ourselves, it's what The Lord God calls us that has the power of everlasting resonance !

May He Call us in Love. Amen.

wm

 

[aldar]

Everyone is susceptible to treating people wrongly from time to time and its something we have to work on constantly. It isn't as easy as not committing dastardly sins. It also needs to noted that those people who seem to treat others so well are only visible to you through a very thin looking glass and some people (too many) always think the best of others and the worst of themselves. I state this to say that those people probably aren't as good as you think and not all the time either because you are hundreds of times more aware of yourself than you are of them. The moments you get a glimpse of them are likely to be their most shining times. I think that needs to be kept in mind.

Also consider this. Treating people right comes from love. It comes from a very softened heart that has learned to value kindness, patience, protection, hope etc. Something that you can have without being a Christian. This can be nurtured by being around people you've come to love, by becoming aware of your own failures creating a sense of humility that in turn only seeks to help and not hurt and by over time placing less and less value in being right or preserving self before others. All of these things can be nurtured outside of Christianity though Christianity is supposed to teach these things also.

I was mistaken for a Christian many times while I was not. This was because of my knowledge of the bible and my general concern for goodness and peoples welfare that took precedence over being right or proving I was right.

There is also a danger in beginning to let the fact that you are RIGHT and have the TRUE belief remove the need to be loving to others. Christianity makes some people quite arrogant and spiteful.

 

[Chris_G]

There are people in the world who may be more moral than you or I, yet they will never bow their knee in repetance to Christ and recieve Him as their Savior. They feel they're ok, or good enough on their own and don't need Christ. This self-righteousness will condemn them. People may appear nice and moral on the outside, but it's what's in the heart that matters. That's where sin starts. The heart must be circumcised by the Spirit. Only then can you have right thinking, right talking, which leads to right doing. Doing it not just to be nice to people, but to please God, knowing you represent His Son.

 

[LBP]

Many of the kindest, most "godly" people I've known in my life weren't Christians. And I don't believe that their goodness was merely a superficial matter; it was a matter of their hearts and souls, and I believe that they were genuinely good people by any earthly standard. I don't think there is any reason to suppose that a Christian is inevitably going to surpass a non-Christian in terms of "goodness," only that the Christian should be expected to be a kinder and more godly person than he would otherwise have been if he had not become a Christian and had not allowed the Holy Spirit into his life. (If the Christian shows no fruits of his conversion, then the reality of the conversion has to be questioned.) As someone else has suggested, "being better people than non-Christians" is really not the point; the point is that the Christian, unlike the non-Christian, has acknowledged his need for God and his dependence on God and has invited God to work through him, so his "good deeds" have a fundamentally different character than those of a non-Christian. The point for the Christian is to walk as closely with God as he can and to allow the Holy Spirit to work through him to the fullest extent that he is able.

 

[godisreal36]

No one is good, not one. Love and truth at times can be hard to combine for us humans. All things work for the good of those that love god and no weapon formed against me shall prosper. The truth shall set you free. No man may come to the father except through Jesus. My religion is Jesus and gods word. I thought we were all one in Christ, why are we not united as sinners in Christ instead of politically motivated biblical religious people? Am i the only one who has ever asked what god meant by being united, under one voice, did i read it or remember wrong? Unity, is it just a worthless word? What does it mean?

 

[godisreal36]

Here i am trying to let the light shine as i see it, i know love should be considered first, but how does speaking the truth become so messy? I post a thread hoping to open minds to what i believe the bible says, it gets moved and i get labeled a heretic, my words taken down leaving a false impression of the truth. Is this love or unity? We are all guilty but the truth is the truth and unity is the truth we all fail to do. Maybe we can't. Maybe i miss something.

 

[NewHope2010]

The essential purpose of this post is that too many Christians ( though we all believe that Christ died for our sins and was resurrected -) have still not reached the fullness of God's love - to us and through us.

We are called to love one another as ourselves, in addition to loving God. We celebrate God's love for US individually, but we won't let God work through us to love others. That's the entire will of God in summation.

The church often talks about needing a revival - what we really need is a change of heart.

Don't get me wrong. My original post was not to bring condemnation, or guilt, or shame, but to bring to light the fact that if we never see any potential to be better, then we will never ask God to help us be better, growing more perfect in God's love - to us and through us.

 

[NewHope2010]

No one is good, not one. Love and truth at times can be hard to combine for us humans. All things work for the good of those that love god and no weapon formed against me shall prosper. The truth shall set you free. No man may come to the father except through Jesus. My religion is Jesus and gods word. I thought we were all one in Christ, why are we not united as sinners in Christ instead of politically motivated biblical religious people? Am i the only one who has ever asked what god meant by being united, under one voice, did i read it or remember wrong? Unity, is it just a worthless word? What does it mean?

I believe that unity is oneness of heart and of purpose. God is Love and so is His greater purpose for us all. It is to experience love, and then to share it.

 

[godisreal36]

There are people in the world who may be more moral than you or I, yet they will never bow their knee in repentance to Christ and receive Him as their Savior. They feel they're OK, or good enough on their own and don't need Christ. This self-righteousness will condemn them. People may appear nice and moral on the outside, but it's what's in the heart that matters. That's where sin starts. The heart must be circumcised by the Spirit. Only then can you have right thinking, right talking, which leads to right doing. Doing it not just to be nice to people, but to please God, knowing you represent His Son.

The bible scripture is very good, i read the scripture above your original post a couple times now, i just now saw yours. Very Good, thank you all, it was all a blessing.

 

[godisreal36]

I believe that unity is oneness of heart and of purpose. God is Love and so is His greater purpose for us all. It is to experience love, and then to share it.

I agree. I fail to love sometimes but i do love. Thank you jesus.

 

[gideons300]

Have you ever met a person who you thought was a superb example of someone advocating the principles of Christianity, in the way they treated people - only, they were not a Christian???

I have.

Now, ask yourself, as a Christian, putting aside the differences between your religious beliefs, do you feel you do just as good a job of advocating the Christian walk as they do, in the way YOU treat people?

I have asked myself this question before, and often realized that I had not done as good of a job - and I saw that in spite of my Christian beliefs, my attitude was towards others was to blame.

I'm not saying that you should look up to anyone. What I'm saying is, it's not good when a person can really say they've been treated better by people of the world, than they have by "church people."

And I think more of us have seen examples of this, even within ourselves, than we'd like to admit.

What are your thoughts?

Sadly, all to often, we have all seen the lack of fruit amongst those grafted into Christ. The problem is that we seldom stop to think "Lord, this ought not be so!" and apply it to ourselves.

Is there something we are potentially missing from the gospel? I believe there is. It is not "new doctrine" but re-discovery of the simplicity of the promises of God with an expectant faith that God will do His part. And what is His part? It is to cause obedience to bear fruit in our lives, and to free us from saying yes to temptation.

In Ezekiel 36, God promised us the new covenant and listed its many blessings. To whom were these promises made? To us? Indeed! So let us read what God says about us and our need for their fulfillment in our walks and lives.

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes."

Ezekiel 36:22-23

May God open our eyes to the hard truth here, that this is us of whom the scriptures prophesy. If my people shall humble themselves and pray....

The medicine is bitter as it goes down, trust me I have had to swallow it. But the results will boggle your minds. It is happening. Live, bones, live.

Blessings,

Bruce

 

[wayfaring man]

There's another consideration which may have been touched on already, but not in great detail... and that is - we who are compelled to believe, and call upon Christ to save us, often do so because we are among the worst at living a decent, well balanced life.

Therefore, so called atheists, in their own capacity may often appear more capable of being upright than we who are in obvious need of being transformed.

This has to do with the principle of God choosing the weak and the foolish things of this world to confound the wise and the mighty thereof.

And with John Baptist's speaking about, every mountain being leveled, and every valley being filled.

Also the verses in The Old Testament which declare that God will save the lowly and afflicted, and bring down the high looks of the proud.

A veritable ( as one in the Book of Acts declared ), turning of the world upside down !

And yes, we are not to remain as weak and foolish, but to grow strong + wise in Jesus !

May we thank God for being among the chosen, in spite of our own weakness and foolishness, and may we be transformed by His Love !

May The Lord Be Pleased to Continue to Bless & Keep !

wm

 

[805margie]

I have totally felt this way before where I met someone and I could've sworn that they were Christian only to find that they weren't, nor did they want to go to church. In my opinion, there are nice people and mean people no matter what their beliefs. And unfortunately people "of the world" seem nicer to others than most Christians because a lot of Christians take it upon themselves to act as a judge as opposed to walking in love. I can't say I'm perfect either. We just have to be aware of this as God's children.

Thanks for the post.