holyrokker
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Where did Jesus command immersion baptism?He who says, "I know him," and does not keep his commandments , is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1John2:4)
Its about obedience. If Jesus says to get baptized then you get baptized.
You can argue later about its relationship to salvation and its significance or symbolism.
Don't let your theology get in your way of actually following his commandments
I'm not avoiding anything. You claimed that we should follow Jesus' example.interestingly enough the river Jordan is symbolic of death - the crossing from the worldly life to eternal life
the Israelites had to pass over Jordan before they could enter the promise land - we must pass through death (burial signified in baptism) to pass into the promised land of eternal life in Christ Jesus .
which we do in the act of obedience by faith .. what hinders us ? = disobedience .
but you have tried to split hairs to avoid acknowledgement of the need of obedience. The scriptures directly instruct to be baptized by faith into his death (and distinctly does NOT specify it must take place at a certain location ) that by faith we may be raised up into his righteousness that no one may say they have done any thing to obtain righteousness but it is by the grace of God through faith and faith is demonstrated by obedience .that ALL GLORY may be GODS.
why fight it ?.. just do it and receive the joy that unceasingly results from obedience .
In addition, aren't we supposed to strive to be like Christ? Wasn't Christ immersed?The English word baptism comes from the Greek word baptiso which means immersion.
outer baptism is symbolic of death and is done in obedience to God "by faith"I'm not avoiding anything. You claimed that we should follow Jesus' example.
The Jordan River is symbolic?
Is baptism also symbolic?
Do we literally die when we a "baptized into his death"? Jesus actually died.
I've been told that we need to follow the example of Jesus, who was baptized in the Jordan, though He wasn't "born again". We don't have to be baptized in the Jordan, but we still need to be immersed; and it has to happen after we've been "born again". But if we don't get baptized by immersion, then we are disobedient to a command that was never given by Jesus.outer baptism is symbolic of death and is done in obedience to God "by faith"
may I ask what point you are trying to make ?
what is your motivation ?to argue against obedience to God
or to promote it ?
Jesus also walked on water. Do we need to do that too?In addition, aren't we supposed to strive to be like Christ? Wasn't Christ immersed?
But where is the command from Jesus?The English word baptism comes from the Greek word baptiso which means immersion.
Jesus also walked on water. Do we need to do that too?
Jesus was also crucified. De we need to do that too?
Thank you for your well thought-out response. You've pointed out a difference between following Christ's example and copying his exact actions. Being baptized because Jesus was baptized is an example of copying His action. He didn't give us a mandate to be baptized. His baptism was part of His larger ministry of reconciliation between us and God.Um... Not trying to intervene or anything, but let me say a couple things. The fact that Jesus walks on water means that he had amazing faith and trusted his Father completely and fully, without doubt. When he died on the cross, he showed his everlasting, boundless love. So yes, we do need to follow his example. While it may not always mean trying to copy his exact actions, we need to strive for what these actions stand for.
As for why we need to be baptized as believers, does John 3:5 not explain it enough?
John the Baptist, prepared the way for Jesus and taught the "baptism of repentance". This is seen in John 1:26-28:But where is the command from Jesus?
John the Baptist, prepared the way for Jesus and taught the "baptism of repentance". This is seen in John 1:26-28:
26 John answered them saying, I baptize in water, but among you stands One whom you do not know.
27 It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.
28 These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
John the baptist baptized Jesus after that. Matthew 3:13-17 gives us the baptism of Jesus:
13 Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?
15 But Jesus answering said to him, Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he *permitted Him.
16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.
Jesus began His ministry, and the disciples baptized people. After Jesus death and resurrection he told the disciples this before He ascended to heaven:
Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
That is the command to baptize. That is why churches baptize.
But this is not a command to be baptized, and shouldn't be taken as such.Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
That is the command to baptize. That is why churches baptize.
I think you're missing my point. Jesus never commanded us to be baptized.Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.
commanded you as in what he just told them to DO
-again I ask .. what is the motive of your argument ? to encourage obedience to God or to encourage disobedience ?
No Holyrokker...you're not reading it correctly then. it's an imperative statement. Everyone who believes on Christ becomes a disciple.But this is not a command to be baptized, and shouldn't be taken as such.
The "command" is to make disciples. Two aspects of this activity are baptizing the disciples and teaching them to observe His commands.
Please read my words carefully. Baptism is not about obedience or disobedience. Jesus did not command us to be baptized.-again I ask .. what is the motive of your argument ? to encourage obedience to God or to encourage disobedience ?
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