Has the day of Worship changed at all?

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 9, 2004

And when did Jesus command observance of the Sabbath? Unless I am mistaken, He allowed His disciples to harvest on the Sabbath, He healed on the Sabbath, and even said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

RonBa · Aug 9, 2004

Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
And when did Jesus command observance of the Sabbath? Unless I am mistaken, He allowed His disciples to harvest on the Sabbath, He healed on the Sabbath, and even said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

You can hardly say that going through a field and picking some grains to eat is harvesting on the Sabbath.

Jesus did heal on the Sabbath. Who said that by healing on the Sabbath it is wrong.

The Jews would pull an animal; out of a well on the Sabbath if one was to fall into it. They would do that and then think that when Jesus healed it was wrong.

Where is the logic behind that?

The Sabbath was made for man so that means we should keep it.

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 9, 2004

In what degree? We either keep it or we don't. Jesus worked on the Sabbath, plain and simple.

RonBa · Aug 10, 2004

Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
In what degree? We either keep it or we don't. Jesus worked on the Sabbath, plain and simple.

Jesus did not consider that He worked on the Sabbath.

The Jews did but they were wrong.

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 10, 2004

He traveled and did His work on the Sabbath, and I shall as well. He showed us we were free from it, and Paul said so as well. Keep it if you like, but I know that I am free in Christ.

Rich48 · Aug 10, 2004

I guess I would ask, in light of what Paul says, does it matter?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbathsdays:

Rich

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 10, 2004

Indeed. The burden of proof is on him to prove it means something else than the Sabbath.

queenm04 · Aug 10, 2004

Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
Indeed. The burden of proof is on him to prove it means something else than the Sabbath.

For interest's sake, if there were to be protocol, and God and Paul was here, who would you value more?

Anyway, let me share what i have learnt.
A friend of mine, who went to a Jewish university taught me that whereever there is I am the Lord", or Thus says the Lord, God Himself has signed, put His Own signature. The 10 commandments do not only begin with the phrase I am the Lord Your God, (Gods signature), but were written by the finger of God Himself. So bear that in mind all the time.

He also taught me that God is a jealous God. That the first 8 verses, in Exodus 20, God talks only about Himself.

I am the Lord Your God
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for your self any graven images, or any likeness of anything that is heaven above
You shall not bow down yourself unto them
You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain
Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy

God can never share HIS GLORY with Anyone in our lives.

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 10, 2004

Oh, I agree. God stands by what He says. And He also said He would send Jesus, and we would be free in Him.

queenm04 · Aug 10, 2004

God commanded Moses to put the Ten Commandments in the Ark of the Covenant (together with the Manna and Aarons rod that budded). Now the Ark, was put in the HOLY OF HOLIES of the Temple. Not in the Outer court or in the Holy place.

John, while in exile at Patmos, saw a vision of the things to come, The new heaven, the new earth, Judgement day, etc. and wrote the book of Revelations. In Rev 11:19, He sees the Ark. Remember also, That the tabernacle of Moses later being called the Temple of Solomon, Has as its model, the heavenly one. Remember that God took Moses to Mount Sinai, to show Him the pattern.

And perpetually reminded him to construct ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN HE WAS SHOWN AT THE MOUNT.

There is a wonderful element of continuity of the Ten Commandments right from the Old Testament to the End of the World. Lets not alter the Word of God. Lest we suffer harsh consequences. Re 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 10, 2004

Yet you still miss the fact that the Ark was the Old Covenant as well, in the temple of old, under the sacrifices of old. The principles of all God's laws still apply. For the Sabbath, it was rest and worship. If someone is neglecting these, they are in sin. But to be legalistic? Keeping the Sabbath as a day just violates the New Testament. And, since we know the Testaments are inerrant, at the least in doctrine, then how can you hold that view?

deu58 · Aug 10, 2004

Hi Queenm04,

We know that the Old Covenant points to the New Covenant in Christ, But those who hold the Old Covenant as still binding say the New covenant points right back to the Old.

It is like the old comic routine where the detective is chasing the villain and asks a bystander which way did he go and the bystander points in both directions at the same time.

You mention the Ark of the Covenant but what did the shadow of the Ark represent? The Ark that was in the earthly temple was a shadow constructed by the hands of men albeit by Gods Command.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The Ark was a shadow of Christ, As you stated there were three items placed in the Ark

The Rod of Aaron representing the Priest hood,

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The Jar of Manna representing the bread of life

Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

The Law of God engraved in stones

1co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Ga 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Ga 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

In Revelation John saw the Ark of his testament in Heaven,

Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

What does the Bible itself tell us is the true testimony of God the Father?

Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Joh 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

Joh 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Joh 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

Joh 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

There are no shadows in Heaven. That is the problem with legalistic religions.. They are so mesmerized by the shadows they can not see the substance

yours in Christ
deu58

queenm04 · Aug 10, 2004

Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
Yet you still miss the fact that the Ark was the Old Covenant as well, in the temple of old, under the sacrifices of old. The principles of all God's laws still apply. For the Sabbath, it was rest and worship. If someone is neglecting these, they are in sin. But to be legalistic? Keeping the Sabbath as a day just violates the New Testament. And, since we know the Testaments are inerrant, at the least in doctrine, then how can you hold that view?

Please read this well. I thought John was in the New Testament?

John, while in exile at Patmos, saw a vision of the things to come, The new heaven, the new earth, Judgement day, etc. and wrote the book of Revelations. In Rev 11:19, He sees the Ark. Remember also, That the tabernacle of Moses later being called the Temple of Solomon, Has as its model, the heavenly one. Remember that God took Moses to Mount Sinai, to show Him the pattern.

And perpetually reminded him to construct ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN HE WAS SHOWN AT THE MOUNT.

There is a wonderful element of continuity of the Ten Commandments right from the Old Testament to the End of the World. Lets not alter the Word of God. Lest we suffer harsh consequences. Re 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed

And do yourself a favour. Study about the Tabernacle of Moses from Exodus 25:8. IT IS THE VERY FOUNDATION OF UNDERSTANDING THE CHRISTIAN FAITH you are trying to defend.

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 10, 2004

queenm04 said:
Please read this well. I thought John was in the New Testament?

John, while in exile at Patmos, saw a vision of the things to come, The new heaven, the new earth, Judgement day, etc. and wrote the book of Revelations. In Rev 11:19, He sees the Ark. Remember also, That the tabernacle of Moses later being called the Temple of Solomon, Has as its model, the heavenly one. Remember that God took Moses to Mount Sinai, to show Him the pattern.

And perpetually reminded him to construct ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN HE WAS SHOWN AT THE MOUNT.

There is a wonderful element of continuity of the Ten Commandments right from the Old Testament to the End of the World. Lets not alter the Word of God. Lest we suffer harsh consequences. Re 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed

And do yourself a favour. Study about the Tabernacle of Moses from Exodus 25:8. IT IS THE VERY FOUNDATION OF UNDERSTANDING THE CHRISTIAN FAITH you are trying to defend.

Yet you still miss the point. Study out Paul and our freedom in Christ, like Colossians 2:16. The fact that the ark is patterned after one in heaven really is irrelevant for this discussion.

RonBa · Aug 11, 2004

deu58
We know that the Old Covenant points to the New Covenant in Christ, But those who hold the Old Covenant as still binding say the New covenant points right back to the Old.

It is like the old comic routine where the detective is chasing the villain and asks a bystander which way did he go and the bystander points in both directions at the same time.

You mention the Ark of the Covenant but what did the shadow of the Ark represent? The Ark that was in the earthly temple was a shadow constructed by the hands of men albeit by Gods Command

What was the old covenant?

What is the new covenant?

Show me how the Sabbath had anything to do with either?

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 11, 2004

Show us how Colossians 2:16 doesn't show that the Sabbath is done away with.

RonBa · Aug 11, 2004

Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
Show us how Colossians 2:16 doesn't show that the Sabbath is done away with.

Show me how Col. 2:16 does away with the Sabbath. It is NOT talking of the weekly Sabbath at all.

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 11, 2004

I think "a Sabbath day," as opposed to the annual Sabbath, or even the Jewish Sabbath, speaks for itself.

RonBa · Aug 11, 2004

Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
I think "a Sabbath day," as opposed to the annual Sabbath, or even the Jewish Sabbath, speaks for itself.

Now if it said "The Sabbath" then I maybe able to see your point, but not "a sabbath day"

Bizzlebin Imperatoris · Aug 11, 2004

The fact that it says a Sabbath day means any Sabbath of any religion. As in, there is no Christian holiday or day of worship.

Has the day of Worship changed at all?

A Sinner

Active Member

A Sinner

Active Member

A Sinner

Legend

A Sinner

Well-Known Member

A Sinner

Well-Known Member

A Sinner

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

A Sinner

Active Member

A Sinner

Active Member

A Sinner

Active Member

A Sinner

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency