Has Noah's Ark really been discovered?

[yeshuasavedme]

This was my point, which you forgot after the intervening post. I'm talking about prehistory. Prehistory means history before a written record existed. Writing began lightly in Mesopotamia circa 3400 BC; in Egypt 3200-3000 B.C. Before these points, our knowledge is extraordinarily limited and as archaeologists we have to be careful how much we read into things. I mentioned the Sinai (used loosely) hunting trail; it was decided that it was used to run animals along and corner them for hunting in one of the lithic ages. Genius: but is it provable?

Writing began with Adam, and Enoch, the seventh from Adam, wrote a book in which He prophesied the flood and the end of the world and the chaining of the angels who sinned. The ancient Chinese oracle bone writing was invented about as soon as the ancient Chinese settled their land after the Babylonian dispersion, and the inventor of that writing told the Gospel story of creation, the fall, the Trinity, the coming of the Word of God as the Redeemer, the Lamb, and the restoration of all things in the characters, themselves, invented for writing.


After the confusion of languages, about everyones' language was set to writing, for records must be kept and were kept -and ancient writings have hardly begun to be deciphered, from all over the world.

By your description of pre-history I think you must believe in evolution? -for biblically speaking there is no such thing as pre-history for this world.

 

[CaptainMercy]

Writing began with Adam, and Enoch, the seventh from Adam, wrote a book in which He prophesied the flood and the end of the world and the chaining of the angels who sinned. The ancient Chinese oracle bone writing was invented about as soon as the ancient Chinese settled their land after the Babylonian dispersion, and the inventor of that writing told the Gospel story of creation, the fall, the Trinity, the coming of the Word of God as the Redeemer, the Lamb, and the restoration of all things in the characters, themselves, invented for writing.


After the confusion of languages, about everyones' language was set to writing, for records must be kept and were kept -and ancient writings have hardly begun to be deciphered, from all over the world.

By your description of pre-history I think you must believe in evolution? -for biblically speaking there is no such thing as pre-history for this world.

Good points and thanks for all posting but the OP was a question of whether or not the Ark had been found, not whether or not it existed! I am a YEC so to me there is no question of existence! I take the Biblical account of the flood literally. I did not intend this to get into a debate over TE, OEC, and YEC thought. There are other threads for that, so please stick to the issue!

 

[justified]

Writing began with Adam, and Enoch, the seventh from Adam, wrote a book in which He prophesied the flood and the end of the world and the chaining of the angels who sinned. The ancient Chinese oracle bone writing was invented about as soon as the ancient Chinese settled their land after the Babylonian dispersion, and the inventor of that writing told the Gospel story of creation, the fall, the Trinity, the coming of the Word of God as the Redeemer, the Lamb, and the restoration of all things in the characters, themselves, invented for writing.

You just made all this up, didn't you?

By your description of pre-history I think you must believe in evolution? -for biblically speaking there is no such thing as pre-history for this world.

of course there is, silly. Nowhere in thebible does it suggest that Adam wrote anything down. There are very interestingJewish traditions that the nephi'lim are responsible for that. But regardless, what are you talking about? I don't believe in evolution, but I don't believe in the "dispersion" as you put it either.

 

[CaptainMercy]

You just made all this up, didn't you?

I don't think he did since Jude quoted from the writings of Enoch! (Read Jude)

of course there is, silly. Nowhere in thebible does it suggest that Adam wrote anything down. There are very interestingJewish traditions that the nephi'lim are responsible for that. But regardless, what are you talking about? I don't believe in evolution, but I don't believe in the "dispersion" as you put it either.

So you think that traditions of the Jews are worthless? You discount things because you just can't fathom them? You have challenged the post above you to support the claim and now the ball is in your park! Support your claims with the evidences refute the claims above! That's what discussion is all about! We have to support our claims!

 

[justified]

I don't think he did since Jude quoted from the writings of Enoch! (Read Jude)

Correction: Jude quoted from the "prophecy" of Enoch. I've done a fair bit of exegesis in Jude. Here, Jude is quoting a writing called I Enoch that was written in about 200-150 B.C. Enoch lived something like 2700 B.C. The writing is what we called pseudepigraphic because it claims to be authored falsely. I'll copy in the passage from first Enoch, vv.8-9, in its poetic form for your reading pleasure (translation by RH Charles):

But with the righteous He will make peace.
And will protect the elect,
And mercy shall be upon them.


And they shall all belong to God,
And they shall be prospered,
And they shall all be blessed.

And He will help them all,
And light shall appear unto them,
And He will make peace with them'.

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him
--

Obviously italics = quoted sections. Enoch wrote nothing that has come to us and, quite frankly, probably didn't know writing existed. The quote from Jude is from a piece of literature made in the 3 or 2 century BC. it is preserved in a DSQ fragment, a greek text, a latin text, and principally in an Ethiopian text.

Evidence enough for you blessedvalley?

Furthermore, quoting passages means nothing as far as evidence. You have to quote them with interpretation. The guy quoted Jude, but he didn't know what he was talking about, which is why I wrote "you just made this up." nor did he evidence his claims about a dispersion.

 

[CaptainMercy]

Correction: Jude quoted from the "prophecy" of Enoch. I've done a fair bit of exegesis in Jude. Here, Jude is quoting a writing called I Enoch that was written in about 200-150 B.C. Enoch lived something like 2700 B.C. The writing is what we called pseudepigraphic because it claims to be authored falsely. I'll copy in the passage from first Enoch, vv.8-9, in its poetic form for your reading pleasure (translation by RH Charles):

But with the righteous He will make peace.
And will protect the elect,
And mercy shall be upon them.


And they shall all belong to God,
And they shall be prospered,
And they shall all be blessed.

And He will help them all,
And light shall appear unto them,
And He will make peace with them'.

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him
--

Obviously italics = quoted sections. Enoch wrote nothing that has come to us and, quite frankly, probably didn't know writing existed. The quote from Jude is from a piece of literature made in the 3 or 2 century BC. it is preserved in a DSQ fragment, a greek text, a latin text, and principally in an Ethiopian text.

Evidence enough for you blessedvalley?

Furthermore, quoting passages means nothing as far as evidence. You have to quote them with interpretation. The guy quoted Jude, but he didn't know what he was talking about, which is why I wrote "you just made this up." nor did he evidence his claims about a dispersion.

No, I see no referance to your quote! Where did you find this information? Give me solid evidence like a site or a book referance with Title and author! You are quoting (you say) from some book you claim to be authored in a different time zone than Enochs day! I am supposed to take your word for it? Support it with more than hearsay! Let's see more than "I done some exegesis work on this subject...." I am not sying you are wrong, I just want some upport back up material not only for me, but for all who read! This is for anyone posting. Support your claims! Don't expect someone to just take your word for it! I supported mine as I wrote by calling your attention to Jude's quote. Now you refute that, so support your refuting with evidence!

 

[justified]

No, I see no referance to your quote! Where did you find this information? Give me solid evidence like a site or a book referance with Title and author! You are quoting (you say) from some book you claim to be authored in a different time zone than Enochs day!

Well honestly, it's common knowledge! I can't exactly say "go google it." Charles wrote his edition in the early 1900s, I think. Look for: Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha in two volumes, by R.H. Charles or, alternately, a book under the same title by Charlesworth. You can find the translations online at various points, let me see here....here you can find it in the original languages: http://www.uwo.ca/kings/ocp/ but I have a feeling you don't read those. I believe Charles' translations, since he's been dead 50 years, can be found on U.S. sites like: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/pseudepigrapha.htm. You're looking for First Enoch: read the "introduction and summary" here to see what is being talked about. Just be warned that it is a technical introduction.

Believe it or not, I've been doing this a long time. Quoting other authors is not support for a claim; logic can be if it leads from established truths. No one has ever to my knowledge claimed First Enoch to be anything but a text from the Hellenistic Era, so I did not feel like it had to defended. Read it and the introduction, and hopefully you'll recognize a lot of hellenism.

 

[CaptainMercy]

Well honestly, it's common knowledge! I can't exactly say "go google it." Charles wrote his edition in the early 1900s, I think. Look for: Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha in two volumes, by R.H. Charles or, alternately, a book under the same title by Charlesworth. You can find the translations online at various points, let me see here....here you can find it in the original languages: http://www.uwo.ca/kings/ocp/ but I have a feeling you don't read those. I believe Charles' translations, since he's been dead 50 years, can be found on U.S. sites like: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/pseudepigrapha.htm. You're looking for First Enoch: read the "introduction and summary" here to see what is being talked about. Just be warned that it is a technical introduction.

Believe it or not, I've been doing this a long time. Quoting other authors is not support for a claim; logic can be if it leads from established truths. No one has ever to my knowledge claimed First Enoch to be anything but a text from the Hellenistic Era, so I did not feel like it had to defended. Read it and the introduction, and hopefully you'll recognize a lot of hellenism.

Thanks, that is what I wanted was tangable, readable evidence! Anyone can say, "I have researched....", I am guilty as well. But when you are refuting something then it is better to point to your source of research to allow the one refuted to read for themself! Thanks again and keep up the discourse!

 

[justified]

let me know if you read them.

 

[CaptainMercy]

I have visited the 2 sites and I will say the one is not far enough along with its work on the book of Enoch to do me any good! I cannot read aramaic! The other one is okay for future study but neither convinced me that the words were not actually Enochs! From what I read, I found no Hellinistc underlyings or overtures! Maybe further study is needed! So thanks for the sites!

But getting back to the original OP, what of Noah's Ark? has anyone got anymore info or have we exhausted the subject?

 

[livingforJesus-Shaun]

http://www.freewebs.com/shaundg/

 

[Nebmaatisus]

How old could the Ark be? 10 000 years? 50 000 years? 100 000 years? What do we know of those times? It is estimated thet some 100 000 years ago mankind was almost extinct. How large and wide was the human population? Could a local disaster have covered the whole of Middle-East under waves? Is there evidence for or against? The "Ark" is situated 7000 feet high. Is that possible?

 

[eh7]

http://www.thedaysofnoah.com/en_index.asp

 

[CaptainMercy]

How old could the Ark be? 10 000 years? 50 000 years? 100 000 years? What do we know of those times? It is estimated thet some 100 000 years ago mankind was almost extinct. How large and wide was the human population? Could a local disaster have covered the whole of Middle-East under waves? Is there evidence for or against? The "Ark" is situated 7000 feet high. Is that possible?

Who estimated this? Where did they get their data t make such and estimation? Are you a TE, or OWC?

 

[Nebmaatisus]

The estimate has been made out of human genes. The fact that we are all so closely related seems to point to the direction of there having been very few humans at one time. Relata refero - I am no scientist myself, so I cannot check the facts myself. I just have to rely on what the "wiser ones" tell.

There are so many unanswered questions. I used to think that the story of the Ark is not historically true (remember, usually myths do not have to be historically true to be valid), but recently I have begun to wonder whether it could be historical, too. I just don´t have enough facts to decide. Luckily the question is not an important one.

 

[ikshudaa]

hey I think Everyone is Right in a way .......
Some say that the ark is there .......when some don't think so
Maybe if u pray and ask God For the answer he will tell u

 

[hypostatic]

It also mentions the story of the turkish businessman
George Hergobian who claimed to have boarded the ark when he was eight years old on a hike on mt ararat with his uncle in 1902.

I know this is unrelated, but he's Armenian. Note the 'ian' ending.

 

[CaiperLane]

Here's some links of interest.

They contain pictures of the Ark remains and the background history of the find.

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah-index.htm

http://wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark.htm

 

[justified]

That picture has been doctored.

 

[CovenantRay]

Hello:

I don't like to speak ill of the dead, however there is a large body of evidence that Ron Wyatt and his "discoveries" are patently false. A google search should turn up a lot of it.

What is the Truth (not the capital "T") is not for me to decide. I believe the bible in it's original form and language is Truth, therefore I believe that the Ark of Noah existed. Whether or not there is archaeological evidence of a 5000 + year old Ark has not been discovered with a reasonable degree of probability.

In my own humble opinion, it is not needed to have faith, nor would scientific/archaological evidence offer "proof" to an atheist, as they would most likely contort/distort the evidence to convince others that it was fraudulent.

Shalom,

CovenantRay