Has evolution wired us for sin?

AV1611VET

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Faith in evidence that cannot be detected but putting it into theory anyway is, in science, the very definition of intellectual
dishonesty.
In that case, science can consider me intellectually dishonest.

As part of my "intellectual dishonesty," I claim I was born ignorant, and I'll die ignorant.

If that's "intellectual dishonesty" to you, then so be it.

I'll welcome being put on science's NO TOLERANCE list.

As God said about our martyrs that science routinely slags ...

"The world was not worthy."
 
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AV1611VET

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I have no problem with what people believe.
* cough *
The problem arises when particular religions or their demonetization demand their religious creation stories to be taught in public schools.
Like they used to do, before our morals were dragged down?
Imagine what the uproar would be for YECs if Hindus made similar demands that public schools teach that their creator god Brahma emerged from an egg and created the world.
I seriously doubt they would want to, if our morals were strong like they used to be.

But if they did demand that, and got their way, we would have the final say at the polls.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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"Now faith is the substance of things
hoped for, the evidence of things unseen".
This is where scholarly Hermeneutics and Exegesis come into play, Estrid. And until you learn this lesson, you're going to keep making the same big mistake that so many make, even Christians.

It's more than high time for this to come to the realization of the World so that no one makes the solipsistic mistake of thinking that flapping the Bible open to some favorite verse and reading it out loud and in front of others somehow presents a self-evident, comprehensively understandable meaning.

It doesn't.

So..............NO! You are wrong! Hebrews 11:1 doesn't stand by itself, and it sure as heck doesn't provide a self-explanatory reference for denotation for the "essence of Christian faith." People need to stop doing and get educated.
Just as I pointed out. Such a concept,
such an approach to evidence would be
a disaster for any real research.
And I don't do this, so why say this to me. .... It doesn't apply.
Hoping for certain results is the opposite of
onjectivity. Faith in evicence that cannot be
detected but putting it into theory anyway is,
in science, the very definition of intellectual
dishonesty.
mmmmmmmmmmmmm. No. You're digging your own epistemic grave here, Estrid. Continuing to push this in a repetitive, ongoing manner just demonstrates your lack of education. I'd suggest you stop with this line of talk and start studying. Unless you like looking like you're ignorant, which I'm sure you're not really wanting to be seen as such.
If it works for your religion, terri. You deal, no
concern of mine.
My observation has to do with those who play
SEDI- "same evidence, different interpretation"
basing their "interpretation " on their faith. (In
themselves, speaking of o'erweening pride) as
ones gifted with True understanding of scripture-
and attending Knoweledge beyond that of any researchers
om earth
Stop the double talk, Estrid. And who is "Terri"?
Some people, less prejudiced perhaps
or fair minded, interested in substance,
would ask for such clarification. If they needed it.
It's trivially obvious, but.
Which you don't do, because academic clarficiation will require more than just hearing a sentence or two from other people. It often does---like at a university---require that you go to the library and actually check out some additional, diverse, scholarly sources to disambiguate the conceptual problems. So far, you give little evidence that you do so.


Some follow forum guidelines and respond
to the post rather than going for character attack.
No, sometimes an attack on another person's Epistemic and Scholarly Integrity IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS: it's an act of exposing that lack. And if some people haven't been to college and learned this, TOO BAD FOR THEM!!!

It's not too bad for you because..........well, from my perspective, you should know better.
After your last post to me some days ago,
that was similarly nothing but a personal
attack. I didnt bother to respond, meant to
move you to ig city to spare at least myself
such unseemly displays as here where you
accuse me of being dishonest and a liar,
whatever else that I won't review to find.

As noted before, your claims would be
better applied., with more truth and less
calumny, to yourself.

More hubris. You're just making claims about my claims, NONE of my claims are hubris.

It's not my fault you don't believe. It's not my fault in the least, and YOU aren't going to lay that red herring at my doorstep.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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"Now faith is the substance of things
hoped for, the evidence of things unseen".

Just as I pointed out. Such a concept,
such an approach to evidence would be
a disaster for any real research.
Hoping for certain results is the opposite of
onjectivity. Faith in evicence that cannot be
detected but putting it into theory anyway is,
in science, the very definition of intellectual
dishonesty.

If it works for your religion, terri. You deal, no
concern of mine.
My observation has to do with those who play
SEDI- "same evidence, different interpretation"
basing their "interpretation " on their faith. (In
themselves, speaking of o'erweening pride) as
ones gifted with True understanding of scripture-
and attending Knoweledge beyond that of any researchers
om earth


Some people, less prejudiced perhaps
or fair minded, interested in substance,
would ask for such clarification. If they needed it.
It's trivially obvious, but.

Some follow forum guidelines and respond
to the post rather than going for character attack.

After your last post to me some days ago,
that was similarly nothing but a personal
attack. I didnt bother to respond, meant to
move you to ig city to spare at least myself
such unseemly displays as here where you
accuse me of being dishonest and a liar,
whatever else that I won't review to find.

As noted before, your claims would be
better applied., with more truth and less
calumny, to yourself.

Oh, and one more thing: I NEVER PLACE ANYONE ON IGNORE. EVER!!! To do so goes against my personal philosophy. :dontcare:
 
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Frank Robert

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* cough *

Like they used to do, before our morals were dragged down?

I seriously doubt they would want to, if our morals were strong like they used to be.

But if they did demand that, and got their way, we would have the final say at the polls.
I agree that morality throughout the world has been on the decline for a long time but as individuals we are still capable of leading a moral life even when there are differences in what is considered moral.
 
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AV1611VET

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Oh, and one more thing: I NEVER PLACE ANYONE ON IGNORE. EVER!!! To do so goes against my personal philosophy.
I don't either.

I'm here to learn.

(Don't cough!)
 
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AV1611VET

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I agree that morality throughout the world has been on the decline for a long time but as individuals we are still capable of leading a moral life even when there are differences in what is considered moral.
The only point I'm making is that it stands to reason that, as morals decline, lies increase.

It's called "sowing tares among the wheat."

Why would a strong, moral nation, welcome the tares of Hindu creation in its schools?
 
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Estrid

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This is where scholarly Hermeneutics and Exegesis come into play, Estrid. And until you learn this lesson, you're going to keep making the same big mistake that so many make, even Christians.

It's more than high time for this to come to the realization of the World so that no one makes the solipsistic mistake of thinking that flapping the Bible open to some favorite verse and reading it out loud and in front of others somehow presents a self-evident, comprehensively understandable meaning.

It doesn't.

So..............NO! You are wrong! Hebrews 11:1 doesn't stand by itself, and it sure as heck doesn't provide a self-explanatory reference for denotation for the "essence of Christian faith." People need to stop doing and get educated.

And I don't do this, so why say this to me. .... It doesn't apply.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm. No. You're digging your own epistemic grave here, Estrid. Continuing to push this in a repetitive, ongoing manner just demonstrates your lack of education. I'd suggest you stop with this line of talk and start studying. Unless you like looking like you're ignorant, which I'm sure you're not really wanting to be seen as such.

Stop the double talk, Estrid. And who is "Terri"?

Which you don't do, because academic clarficiation will require more than just hearing a sentence or two from other people. It often does---like at a university---require that you go to the library and actually check out some additional, diverse, scholarly sources to disambiguate the conceptual problems. So far, you give little evidence that you do so.



No, sometimes an attack on another person's Epistemic and Scholarly Integrity IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS: it's an act of exposing that lack. And if some people haven't been to college and learned this, TOO BAD FOR THEM!!!

It's not too bad for you because..........well, from my perspective, you should know better.


More hubris. You're just making claims about my claims, NONE of my claims are hubris.

It's not my fault you don't believe. It's not my fault in the least, and YOU aren't going to lay that red herring at my doorstep.
Whatever trash talk you have won't be read this time
or any other time wont be read by me.
 
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Tolworth John

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Many people hold one over the other yet faith in bible and ToE are different in nature from something else of a similar type. There is no inherent need to value one over the other. The need to do so is man made.
Yes except for so many evolution is a reason or an excuse not to believe in God or in Jesus.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Whatever trash talk you have won't be read this time
or any other time wont be read by me.

Yep, I'm full of nothing but "trash talk," Estrid. In fact, I'd go so far to say that every single itty-bitty individual point of my entire worldview is "trashtalk," wouldn't you agree?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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The only point I'm making is that it stands to reason that, as morals decline, lies increase.

It's called "sowing tares among the wheat."

Why would a strong, moral nation, welcome the tares of Hindu creation in its schools?

Because it was planned for from the beginning?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Remind me again when Hinduism got started?

c AD 1850?

No silly. I was implying that the Founding Fathers incorporated a structure into the Constitution of the U.S. to eventuate in allowing other religions and people of those religions to 'live' within the borders of our nation.

And for good or bad, that's all I was implying.
 
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AV1611VET

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No silly. I was implying that the Founding Fathers incorporated a structure into the Constitution of the U.S. to eventuate in allowing other religions and people of those religions to 'live' within the borders of our nation.

And for good or bad, that's all I was implying.
Okie-doke.
 
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Frank Robert

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Yes except for so many evolution is a reason or an excuse not to believe in God or in Jesus
Yes, some people may use evolution as a reason to maintain their atheism yet there are many others like like Kenneth Miller who is a devout Christian and author of the main biology text books. Also Francis Collins former head of NIH.

If you would like interact with such people you can sometimes find them the forum at Peaceful Science which welcomes everyone weather religious or not.
 
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Frank Robert

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Yes, some people may use evolution as a reason to maintain their atheism yet there are many others like like Kenneth Miller who is a devout Christian and author of the main biology text books. Also Francis Collins former head of NIH.

If you would like interact with such people you can sometimes find them on the forum at Peaceful Science which welcomes everyone whether religious or not.
 
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