Has anyone been thru a Mormon temple?

[straightforward]

Thanks aggie.

 

[Jedi]

Then my young brother in Christ, you need to take a closer look at what it is Mormons state regarding the identity of Jesus, the Bible, and salvation. There is a vast difference between biblical Christianity and Mormonism.

Yes, I know there is. Take a look at the link I provided earlier and you’ll see how much I’ve researched into Mormon theology and even took the liberty to contrast it with some Biblical teachings. However, what I have yet to see is a difference in what they believe is necessary for salvation. If they have the same basis for salvation and meet the same criteria for salvation that we do, there would appear to be no reason for their condemnation. However, if they don’t accept Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, then that’s not the case.

Please understand that I’m not saying that both accounts (Christianity and Mormonism) are both 100% correct. That’s impossible, since they both claim mutually exclusive things to be true. However, I haven’t seen any differences on the doctrine of salvation. Christians teach that it’s the acceptance of Christ that saves you (John 3:16, Romans10:9). While Mormons might be mistaken about a great many things, as long as they hold this to be true (just like the Christian), doesn’t that secure their salvation? If not, then salvation depends on something else other than the acceptance of Christ, but I really don’t think this is the case.

Jodrey is a sweet girl and all I want to do is help her find her way to a right relationship to God.

Just F.Y.I., my lady, Jodrey’s a guy. I made the same mistake in thinking he was a girl on another message board. I guess it’s the name that has a sort of feminine touch to it at a first glance.

And no, I don't dismiss your posts because you are young, I think you are doing well, you just need help in understanding essential Christian doctrine, when you know that backward, forwards and in your sleep you will be able to spot truth from error instantly. That is the goal for you, IMO. and then once you know it, expound this truth in love. Then others will know to whom you belong

I truly hope that people already know to whom I belong. My knowledge of Christ and scripture is generally superior to people I talk with (although I’ve seen people who know far more than I do – there’s always a bigger fish). I’m not really confused concerning this subject, but rather, I have yet to see evidence of any belief (or disbelief) that would show me that Mormons are condemned based upon their theology. They may believe a lot of odd things, but what I’m most concerned with is this: (1) What do they think is necessary for salvation, and (2) is it the same requirements as taught by orthodox Christianity? If they meet the same requirements for salvation as the Christians do, why would they be condemned? That’s my question, my lady.

 

[straightforward]

I have yet to see evidence of any belief (or disbelief) that would show me that Mormons are condemned based upon their theology.

Jedi...have you caught up on the more recent posts? Is your Christ the same as the one who is the 'spirit brother of satan'? That's Theology.

 

[romans8]

Regarding Mormons:

Today at 03:05 PM Jedi said this in Post #122

If they meet the same requirements for salvation as the Christians do, why would they be condemned? That’s my question, my lady.

Because Mormons believe in a completely different Jesus, a completely different God. And because the validity of faith is linked to it's object and Mormons have placed their faith in a object other than the God of the Bible, they have condemned themselves. It's simply this, the God of Christianity cannot be found in Mormonism.

 



 

 

[jodrey]

This is a significant theological change!

It is? Please explain; maybe I just don't see it.

There is absolutely NO manuscript support for such an exchange of terms.

No, there isn't; however, only if you can show me the original letters of the apostles I'll consider this a valid argument.

John 1:1-3 tells us that all things (including Lucifer) were made by the Christ who was in the beginning, God. Colossians 1:16 tells us that all things, including things visible and invisible, principalities or powers, were created by the preeminent Jesus Christ, the eternal God. The Bible forcefully declares Lucifer to be a creation of Jesus, not in any way the brother of Jesus.

So it's safe to say that your argument is with the Trinity (or lack of), not the pre-existance. On a side-note, "all" actually refers to the physical world and does not necessarily mean spiritual creations in this context. We believe that Christ created the world and everything physical.

And if your prophets tell you anything different you should be bugging out a little.

And you should be if the Bible says something different.

That's funny...we've got a lot of different translations around here and when we read them all together they don't seem all that different. I can read along in my NASB while my husband reads his NIV and the preacher is preaching out of his NKJ...and we all get along just fine!

I'm sure you do, and the differences aren't on every page, or usually extremely apparent. I'll find some examples later, when I'm not so lazy.

Thanks for that. The JST was were I was heading.

Already covered.

Mormons believe biblical text was deleted but they have no physical evidence to support that it existed in the first place.

Yep, we do believe that, and nope, we don't have any proof. However, think about it logically for a second... If some corrupt priests back in the day wanted to have something erased, added, or changed, don't you think they'd be careful and not leave behind any evidence?

That is one thing. But changing the Bible as JS did is another.

Why?

This is just a thought that I decided to throw in here - there is a difference between "evolution" and "Evolution" (notice the small 'e' on the first one). Specifically, I am speaking of Macro- and Micro- evolution. I don't have a problem with microevolution. Macroevolution on the other hand is a religion, does try to explain the beginning, yadda yadda yadda...you all know the spiel.

Evolution (capitalized) is an invention, not a discovery. I don't think it should be considered as anything. Evolution (lower-case) is the standard theory which in no way conflicts with religion. Just my $0.02.

 

[straightforward]

So it's safe to say that your argument is with the Trinity (or lack of), not the pre-existance. On a side-note, "all" actually refers to the physical world and does not necessarily mean spiritual creations in this context. We believe that Christ created the world and everything physical.

No...my arguement is with what you try to twist it to be. And according to the scripture you were replying to...Christ created EVERYTHING! Before Him there was nothing.

 

[Wrigley]

jodrey:

quote:
That is one thing. But changing the Bible as JS did is another.



Why?


**************

See #112

 

[straightforward]

Yep, we do believe that, and nope, we don't have any proof. However, think about it logically for a second... If some corrupt priests back in the day wanted to have something erased, added, or changed, don't you think they'd be careful and not leave behind any evidence?

I don't think that's what happened to the Christian bible. However, think about it logically for a second...If some corrupt guy who wanted to make up his own religion wanted to erase, add or change the bible...he'd make his own book...like the book of mormon.

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 06:20 PM jodrey said this in Post #125



It is? Please explain; maybe I just don't see it.

Joseph Smith made up his doctrine as he went along, changing it to meet his needs and desires. For instance your scripture the BOM, forbids a man from having more than one wife. As we know that changes as he desired it along the way.

He did not do a bible translation..he rewrote whole sections of scripture to reinforce the doctrine he devised.
So unlike Christians that get their doctrine from the Bible, he got his bible from his doctrine..and like all things LDS subject to the whims of the current prophet to change.

 

[HWS Jim]

There is a book on the market called: "Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon." Got lots of research in it. If you really want to know, find a copy.

 

[romans8]

Today at 03:20 PM jodrey said this in Post #125
Yep, we do believe that, and nope, we don't have any proof. However, think about it logically for a second... If some corrupt priests back in the day wanted to have something erased, added, or changed, don't you think they'd be careful and not leave behind any evidence?

Think about what you said for a minute. It wouldn't be "some corrupt priests" it would be all. As you said, there is no evidence to support your beliefs here. It would be a lot easier for one man to create his own religion than for every priest to be corrupt.

 

[Jedi]

Jedi...have you caught up on the more recent posts? Is your Christ the same as the one who is the 'spirit brother of satan'? That's Theology.

Yes, I know that’s theology. However, I don’t think that deals with salvation of the individual.

I understand people might object to believing in a different God, however, there’s a problem with asserting this. Not all Christians, despite what their denomination may be, think of Jesus as God himself and only see him as the son of God. Since they don’t think of Jesus as God, are they following a false God? I think Mormons believe in the God of the Bible, but due to “revelations” from their prophets, they believe different things about Him.

Now I’m not saying this is an insignificant difference – knowing the truth about who Christ is in reality is VERY important. But if someone doesn’t have their picture of him 100% accurate, as long as their misunderstandings don’t affect salvation, does it stand to reason that such people are condemned? I have serious hesitations about that.

Look forward to hearing from you (as always), but I have a lot of things to do right about now (tests, papers, etc) at college, so it might be a day or so before I can get back to ya.

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 06:43 PM romans8 said this in Post #131


It would be a lot easier for one man to create his own religion than for every priest to be corrupt.

Exactly what happened..

 

[jodrey]

Today at 01:57 AM Jedi said this in Post #69
So first these people need to be convinced to the point where they have a “basic understanding.” Looks like humans are still needed to do some convincing here.

'Understanding' was the wrong word; I mean a knowledge of what we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ to be. They do not have to believe any of it based on our word.

The example given at Christart.com seemed to be a prime example of brainwashing. I also don’t think that you should consider the veracity of a teaching without examining it with reason. If it is really from God, then it shouldn’t be contrary to the Bible or be in any way logically inconsistent or inaccurate.

What example? I think you should study it too, but I also think you can go overboard with studying to the point where you're completely void of faith. Thomas needed to see and feel the prints in the hands of his Master before he believed. It's better to be like Peter and receive a witness from the Spirit.

All the references you gave, though, only warn against quarrelling needlessly – not seeking the truth and defending it against those who preach false doctrines.

"... the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy." That sounds pretty absolute to me. What do you think?

From what I recall, this was not the case most of the time. They wanted to free the Holy Land from the heathen, and whether they would do it by sword or conversion, they were going to accomplish that goal. The sixth caliph of the Fatamid dynasty, al-Hakim (996-1021), who declared himself the incarnation of God also persecuted Christians and destroyed Roman Catholic holy sites, which encouraged the start of the Crusades. In 1064-65, seven thousand Christians were ambushed on the way to worship in Jerusalem, which gave Christians a reason to march toward Jerusalem with military might. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the Christians making their way to war with the Arab world was doing so out of sincere concern for these people’s salvation and set out to do so for the sake of their conversion.

True, but the claim of conversion was made by the popes; whether or not they meant it is another issue.

Some people will be liberated no other way.

And some people will be utterly turned off by this kind of liberation and refuse the liberation. People have a tendency to ignore or unreasonably justify their beliefs and actions when they are told they are wrong. I find it much more effective to not attack them in any way, but simply to share the message. It's then up to them of whether they choose to receive or not. If they refuse the Spirit then that's the end of it.

I’ve made sure that there’s very little, if any, problem with the material presented. It’s all very well documented and is oozing with references to make sure I’m not pulling stuff from thin air. The only rub comes in when concerning the use of the material, which, for the most part, is rock-solid. I personally like that long list of changes in the Book of Mormon. <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border=0>

All your references looked negatively biased to me. You should try balancing it with pro-sites and books as well, which address some of the issues you wrote about, which would improve the quality of your research.

So you mean to say that all of these people were not God’s people. The entire Jewish leadership is condemned, and so basically God didn’t have a people, since they had a couple doctrinally unsound ideas.

We know that their untrue doctrines led them to a disbelief in Christ when He came, and at least by that time, and once they had crucified Him, they were scattered, therefore no longer enjoying the blessings they once had. I'm not sure if they all maintained the priesthood during that time. I'll get more into this later.

I need to go, I'll finish later.

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 01:17 PM straightforward said this in Post #83


Different God.



I think this proves that works are important because they are the will of God...not because they get us into heaven or get us our own planet. Besides...who&nbsp;is that 'Father' to you? Not the same one I call Father or Jesus called Father. Yours is some god among other gods who got his own planet to play with just like you think you might some day. You can do his works all your life but, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven"..."And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you.."



This is a pretty clear indication to me that you need to know who Jesus is before you can do his work.



I think Jesus is actually saying it doesn't matter how many works you do if you aren't doing the will of the Father! They do not equate to salvation...they are a fruit of your salvation!




As far as I know a power structure still exists there. And, from what I know, there are pleanty of preachers who do think the Catholic church is wrong and that they are not teaching Christianity. So...what is your point?





Again...what is your point...is it any less the TRUTH? I'll tell you...I'm pretty certain no one saw it in any tool of divination when they wrote it down.

AMEN

 

[rnmomof7]

Today at 06:43 PM Jedi said this in Post #132



Yes, I know thats theology. However, I dont think that deals with salvation of the individual.

I understand people might object to believing in a different God, however, theres a problem with asserting this. Not all Christians, despite what their denomination may be, think of Jesus as God himself and only see him as the son of God. Since they dont think of Jesus as God, are they following a false God? I think Mormons believe in the God of the Bible, but due to �revelations� from their prophets, they believe different things about Him.

Now Im not saying this is an insignificant difference knowing the truth about who Christ is in reality is VERY important. But if someone doesnt have their picture of him 100% accurate, as long as their misunderstandings dont affect salvation, does it stand to reason that such people are condemned? I have serious hesitations about that.

Look forward to hearing from you (as always), but I have a lot of things to do right about now (tests, papers, etc) at college, so it might be a day or so before I can get back to ya.

Jedi I do not know where to start but you had a lousy Pastor and Sunday School
teacher.. You are a sitting duck for the mormon Missionaries , the Jw's or the Armstrong folks..


2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].


Anyone that denies the divinity of Chrsit or the trinity is not a Christian

 

[David Gould]

And still no-one answers my question ...

"If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." - Romans 10:9-10

No matter what you have done, Jesus wants to make you a new person. All you have to do is ask him. Right now, in your own words, <B>ask God to forgive you for all of the bad things you have done in your life</B>. This is called confessing your sins. Then <B>ask Jesus to become the leader of your life, to make you a new person and to guide and shape you from this moment on</B>. Finally, <B>thank God for loving you enough to not give up on you, but to make your salvation possible through His Son, Jesus Christ</B>. It’s that easy!

The Mormons do all this.

If they are not saved, what about the above is wrong?

If it is wrong, what are you doing about the fact that&nbsp;Christian Forums is giving out incorrect information about how you become saved?

 

[romans8]

Today at 05:15 PM David Gould said this in Post #137

And still no-one answers my question ...

The Mormons do all this.

If they are not saved, what about the above is wrong?

As I previously said:

Mormons believe in a completely different Jesus, a completely different God. And because the validity of faith is linked to it's object and Mormons have placed their faith in a object other than the God of the Bible, they have condemned themselves. It's simply this, the God of Christianity cannot be found in Mormonism.

Only the one true God can save you, not some god redefined from a false prophet. It's a foundational difference with eternal ramifications.

 

[David Gould]

Today at 12:56 PM romans8 said this in Post #138



As I previously said:



Only the one true God can save you, not some god redefined from a false prophet. It's a foundational difference with eternal ramifications.

So when you pray to Jesus you have to have exactly the right one in mind or you are not saved?

Why doesn't it mention that in the Christian Forums guide to becoming a Christian? Why are they misleading people?

Where does it mention this in the Bible?

Of all the many different Christian denominations, which one is worshipping the correct version of Christ?

How do you tell?&nbsp;

 

[romans8]

Today at 06:05 PM David Gould said this in Post #139

So when you pray to Jesus you have to have exactly the right one in mind or you are not saved?

Why doesn't it mention that in the Christian Forums guide to becoming a Christian? Why are they misleading people?

Where does it mention this in the Bible?

Of all the many different Christian denominations, which one is worshipping the correct version of Christ?

How do you tell?&nbsp;

Why do you assume the Christian Forums guide is misleading? Since Mormons believe some of the texts to manuscripts were deleted but have no evidence to support the text existed in the first place, why is it easier to believe all the priests were corrupt than one man created his own religion, which has happened many times through-out history?

Where does the Bible say you can redefine God and believe in any redefinition without eternal ramifications? How about this: Poof, I now redefine David Gould as God, does that make you God? If I place my faith in the object of God redefined as David Gould, can he save me from my sins? Of course not! Neither can Mormons have a valid saving faith&nbsp;because the object of their faith is invalid.