Has anyone actually gone through a similar experience?

[Narkissos]

Hello guys

I was wondering whether any of you have actually tried, since your conversion, to actively reject belief in God and Jesus Christ (I know it's a weird question but read on - I think it makes sense).

Please place emphasis on the phrase *since your conversion*.

I was born in a Christian family and baptised as an infant but I never actually really believed in God. Even as a kid (I'm almost 26 now btw). I was a Christian in name only up until I was 14 or so. Then I became an agnostic for about 9 years.

I returned back to God 2 years ago. I felt I was sinking and I was in need of God's grace. I thought I found Him but I wasn't particularly strong in my belief. Subconsciously, I was still thinking that I am really ultimately an agnostic.

And sure enough, I slowly started getting embittered with God. I actively tried to reject my beliefs and go back to agnosticism. However I couldn't do it. I had never felt drawn to God like this way before. The more I tried to reject Him, the stronger my belief in Him became... I thought it would've been easy to turn agnostic again - after all I was one for a long time.

I have since embraced Calvinism for precisely this reason. I did not find God, that was the wrong way to think about it - He found me - and I don't think there's any chance of me rejecting God.

I should also say that I am not one of those newly converted Christians with Damascus-like experiences. Nothing remarkable happened in my life. The only remarkable thing is that I can't get God, I can't get Jesus out of my head anymore and I can't in good conscience affirm agnostic beliefs (I feel God's presence very acutely).

 

[JM]

Not since my conversion, no. When the Holy Spirt was drawing me, yes. I was being drawn to read the word and did, often, so often that I told myself "I'm becoming religious I better cut it out before people think I'm a loon." I seriously said that..out loud, to myself.

I read Romans and was convicted. I became a believer. Before that I did try to reject the drawing of God the Holy Spirit.

Yours in The Lord (from my iPhone),

jm

 

[Narkissos]

Not since my conversion, no. When the Holy Spirt was drawing me, yes. I was being drawn to read the word and did, often, so often that I told myself "I'm becoming religious I better cut it out before people think I'm a loon." I seriously said that..out loud, to myself.

I read Romans and was convicted. I became a believer. Before that I did try to reject the drawing of God the Holy Spirit.

Yours in The Lord (from my iPhone),

jm

I had said that quite a few times. I did not welcome the fact that I had founded the Gospels so agreeable with me.

I assume many Americans do not really understand these feelings because of the positive status of Christianity in the US. It's not so in the UK and I assume it's similar for Canada (although comparatively better than the UK I suppose) . Being a serious Christian is not considered something to be proud of.

I appreciate the response.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I used to worry about whether I'd lose my faith in God. It was a childhood fear that was probably a product of growing up in what was essentially an Arminian home. I compare it to the diving reflex that I didn't know about. My sister and I used to compete with each other to see who could stay under water for the longest time in our swimming pool. I had always assumed that if my willpower failed me I would let in a breath of water and drown. The breath-holding game seemed like a game of chicken, and sheer willpower was the only thing that could save me. Do you know that it's impossible to immerse yourself in water and voluntarily inhale it? Try as hard as you might, you'll never succeed. God won't let you. My faith in God feels like this, to me.

I'm thankful for the atheist history teacher I had, who mocked Calvinism, teaching me about it in the process, and challenging me to search the scripture to define what I believe. I came to the same beliefs not because a Calvinist taught me, but because the Bible seemed so clear on the subject. My feelings toward God have occasionally challenged my faith, but I've lived with that blessed confidence I gained ever since I grasped predestination. Now that I'm thinking about it (thanks for making me think about it) I'm sure it was an answer to those tortured prayers that I prayed as a kid, fearful for my tenuous salvation.

 

[abacabb3]

Interesting stories. I was an agnostic and honestly, I took a course in the Western Humanities. I read Sophocles, Plato, the Bible, Augustine, etc. During the course, the professor taught about Platonic forms and I think ever since I was a teeenager, I wanted to know "the truth" and not "a lie." It fueled my militant agnosticism.

In retrospect, it was my flesh's desire for "the truth" that God exploited. God actually shocked me into repentance, even though I really did not understand the concept. I could not admit it to myself, but when I heard Augustine's conversion experience in class all of the sudden a supernatural event occurred. I did not even believe in God, and instantly my sin was exposed to me and I was given the will power to repent.

Ironically, it would be two years before I even became a Christian. I had abilities I never had before to restrain sin. I constantly sought self-improvement and though I did not know why, I searched the Scripture for answers.

Because I was criticized for even seeking the truth, even before I was a believer, it entrenched my belief that I was onto something.

So, sadly, I don't think I truly understand what it is like to deliberately attempt to reject the Holy Spirit but fail. However, because I had three events happen in two years without natural explanation, it has essentially given me complete confidence and a lack of desire to question God's revelation. By the grace of God, this will remain the case.

 

[Narkissos]

Interesting stories. I was an agnostic and honestly, I took a course in the Western Humanities. I read Sophocles, Plato, the Bible, Augustine, etc. During the course, the professor taught about Platonic forms and I think ever since I was a teeenager, I wanted to know "the truth" and not "a lie." It fueled my militant agnosticism.

In retrospect, it was my flesh's desire for "the truth" that God exploited. God actually shocked me into repentance, even though I really did not understand the concept. I could not admit it to myself, but when I heard Augustine's conversion experience in class all of the sudden a supernatural event occurred. I did not even believe in God, and instantly my sin was exposed to me and I was given the will power to repent.

Ironically, it would be two years before I even became a Christian. I had abilities I never had before to restrain sin. I constantly sought self-improvement and though I did not know why, I searched the Scripture for answers.

Because I was criticized for even seeking the truth, even before I was a believer, it entrenched my belief that I was onto something.

So, sadly, I don't think I truly understand what it is like to deliberately attempt to reject the Holy Spirit but fail. However, because I had three events happen in two years without natural explanation, it has essentially given me complete confidence and a lack of desire to question God's revelation. By the grace of God, this will remain the case.

It's not a nice feeling (to attempt to reject the Holy Spirit and then fail) BUT what's glorious is when I wake up in the morning and, despite my attempts, I still feel God's love, I am still interested in knowing Him more. No matter how many times I sin, He's still there for me. That is the best feeling I had in years. It's how I know I will always be a Christian. If this doubting and bitterness toward God didn't destroy my faith, nothing ever will.

 

[Skala]

Hello guys

I was wondering whether any of you have actually tried, since your conversion, to actively reject belief in God and Jesus Christ :

This would be a great exercise for synergists who believe in libertarian free will!

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

This would be a great exercise for synergists who believe in libertarian free will!

Yeah, but think of what you'd be asking them to do! You ask them to deny their faith and go to Hell to prove synergism. Of course, they don't want to do that, so they refuse. Ergo, you just proved them wrong, because they can't turn from the faith?

Let's think about this: you have to convince them that their faith is wrong to make them turn from it, or if you couldn't convince them of that, then you just disproved their faith by virtue of the fact that you couldn't convince them that they were wrong?

 

[Narkissos]

I think my personal story is less concerned with the "T" part of the TULIP and more concerned with the "P" part (although they are interconnected).

I do not think it is possible to genuinely believe and then stop believing. If the first condition is in place, that is, if you firmly believe, you will persevere until the end even if you fall short many times along the way until you reach the end.

The free will problem is more of a problem for Americans than anyone else 'cos of your (forgive me) deification of "free choice" that borders on idolatry.

 

[Skala]

Yeah, but think of what you'd be asking them to do! You ask them to deny their faith and go to Hell to prove synergism. Of course, they don't want to do that, so they refuse. Ergo, you just proved them wrong, because they can't turn from the faith?

Let's think about this: you have to convince them that their faith is wrong to make them turn from it, or if you couldn't convince them of that, then you just disproved their faith by virtue of the fact that you couldn't convince them that they were wrong?

I wouldn't expect them to deny their faith all the way to hell.

I'd simply ask them to prove that they are, in fact, soverign over their desires and wills so much so that they could "toggle" (like a light switch) their desire and faith and belief in Christ on and off, at will.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I wouldn't expect them to deny their faith all the way to hell.

Yeah...but if they could successfully turn their faith off at will, there would be no guarantee that the faithless version of themselves would want to turn it back on, again (actually, we both know that a faithless person has no reason to want to have faith, but that's moot among us Calvinists).

After the person stares at you blankly and yells, "I can't do that!" you reply, "See, I told you so."

 

[lesliedellow]

I won't go into the circumstances, but about twenty years ago I decided that I wanted to forget about God now. I soon discovered that he doesn't so easily let you go, even if you want to let him go.

That experience didn't immediately transform me into a Calvinist. That came many years later, when I stopped trying to tell myself that the Bible couldn't mean what it seemed to mean.

 

[EmSw]

Yeah, but think of what you'd be asking them to do! You ask them to deny their faith and go to Hell to prove synergism. Of course, they don't want to do that, so they refuse. Ergo, you just proved them wrong, because they can't turn from the faith?

Many have willingly denied their faith. That's all the proof you need.

If you ask me to deny my faith, I will freely ignore your request and choose as I please. I will not let you decide for me; I will not go against my freedom to choose as I please.

Let's think about this: you have to convince them that their faith is wrong to make them turn from it, or if you couldn't convince them of that, then you just disproved their faith by virtue of the fact that you couldn't convince them that they were wrong?

Your logic is lacking.

If you can't convince me my faith is wrong, you are disproving my faith? This is lacking in rationality.

So, if I can't convince you Calvinism is wrong, then I have disproved your faith?

Are you willing to freely turn from Calvinism? If not, you are exercising your free will. Please don't say you can't; I've seen those who have turned from Calvinism.

 

[JM]

Sophistry or ignorance?

 

[EmSw]

Sophistry or ignorance?

Neither.

 

[iambren]

"I was wondering whether any of you have actually tried, since your conversion, to actively reject belief in God and Jesus Christ"


Like asking a fish to breathe after placed on the river-bank. Yes, when I once was on a fork in the road I clearly prayed "God, I know you don't want me to go on the left road...but I'm taking it". Well,2 years went by and it seemed to be getting by when I discovered I wasn't breathing so well(like the fish above). A spiritual chastisement of sorts brought me aright,confessing my wrong.

 

[mickyd1961]

I believe even King David worshipped foreign gods for awhile.