Harry Potter - Good or bad?

Ben Reid · Jul 29, 2002

Hi Rose-Mary,

I sincerely believe that you are a Christian and that your heart is in the right place.

However, I ask that you look seriously into HP before exposing your kids to it.

Do a bit of research on J K Rowling and her background. Look at non-biased sources (as much as possible.) It will be an eye-opener for you, I promise. Since her childhood, Rowling has been fascinated with witchcraft, magic, and the occult.

And, contrary to what may be expressed in the popular media (or indeed this forum) many Wiccans and occultists have claimed that it is an extremely accurate portrayal of their beliefs and practices.

ZiSunka · Jul 29, 2002

Originally posted by WiccanWarrior
I totally agree with ex-christian. I am also an 18 year old witch, who was born christian, and Books such as Harry Potter are totally harmless unless YOU make them a big deal. Nothing is "Evil" unless man makes it so. The books are creative stories that are ment to expand imaginations and keep children of ALL ages entertained. I know people that are 65 years of age and still read that series of books who have been born and raised Eastern Orthodox in a very strict household and absolutely love the Harry Potter tales, because they are just that, Tales.

~WiccanWarrior

Harry Potter books tell children that it is okay to lie if it serves your purpose.  It teaches that parents and teachers are not to be trusted.  It teaches that kids who do good are unworthy and kids who do bad are to be rewarded.  It teaches that to turn the other cheek is weak, and to seek revenge is strong.

I consider those to be good enough reasons to say Harry Potter books are not good reading material for Christian children.

mel3 · Jul 29, 2002

With all respect to the 18 year old self proclaimed witch, I wouldn't expect you to say anything else than what you said. Of course, you would think it is harmless. However, because there is so much controversity about this subject, if I was out there questioning whether or not it was appropriate for my child to read, I would stay away from it. I would not even go near it if I were listening to the debate on it, because there is too much of it in question. I made up my mind a long time ago that HP was totally unacceptible in my house and it was not up for discussion. I want to say to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, take heed to the stories you hear. If you are having to question whether or not it is a tale or harmless, trust me you don't want it around your child. Is it a book that you would let your child read with Jesus sitting right in the room with you, I don't think so. We are not to conform to this world but unwillingly and unwittingly you are when you let your kids read stories such as this trash. Just my opinion.....

ZiSunka · Jul 29, 2002

I gave my nephew at Harry Potter book, and my sister the atheist wouldn't even let him read it because of the content. She felt it was inappropriate and instilled values that she didn't want her son to have. Magic had nothing to do with it. Although she thought the story line would have held his interest, she just didn't want him to think that the values taught in Harry Potter were acceptable.

AngelAmidala · Jul 29, 2002

Hey all.

I know the topic of Harry Potter can get out of hand depending on the people involved in the discussion. Since this subject was brought back, I haven't seen anything real bad. A very good thing! But I did want to just put a note up that this isn't the place for an argument on Harry Potter or the subject matter it deals with. So the current tone that's been expressed in posts so far...keep it!

Thanks!

Havoc · Jul 29, 2002

Aussie_Tash;

Maybe you'd like to hear it from a real Witch then? The stuff in HP in no way resembles real Witchcraft. We recognise that the sorcery, spells, and monsters of HP are no more real than Tolkein's LOTR. Christians would be well advised to do a little research before saying such foolish things.

Havoc

Aussie_Tash · Jul 29, 2002

Aussie_Tash;
Maybe you'd like to hear it from a real Witch then? The stuff in HP in no way resembles real Witchcraft. We recognise that the sorcery, spells, and monsters of HP are no more real than Tolkein's LOTR. Christians would be well advised to do a little research before saying such foolish things.

Well Havoc, i am not here to argue As for hearing it from a "real witch", well i have had heaps of encounters from witches, thru my parents church, we used to have witches come and go all the time....and i KNOW what witchcraft is, i have had first hand knowledge of it !! So this is why i am so against HP books, the popularity of wichcraft books , wicca , and spell books have increased by many, too many of our young people are getting caught up in this, and satan knows this, this is why we need to RAISE OUR STANDARD(i am not yelling,sorry), we need to protect our next generation.
So please no one say to me that i don't know about witchcraft, my pop's exgirlfriend is a white witch, so yes these books are harmful to our children, children often want to follow in their hero's footstep and kids always like to playact, well this kind of playacting is so wrong, sorry but this is MY opinion.

Bless ya

Havoc · Jul 30, 2002

thru my parents church, we used to have witches come and go all the time....
So please no one say to me that i don't know about witchcraft, my pop's exgirlfriend is a white witch

Those two statements in themselves show you really don't know anything about Witches. A Witch would have no reason to "come and go" in your church and there is no such thing as "White" Witches or "Black" Witches. I'm sure you consider yourself an expert having sucked up the pablum of propaganda but I have been a Witch for over 20 years so I think I'm quite qualified to say what similarities the HP books have with real Witchcraft, ie none.

And as for protecting the next generation, who are you to say which spiritual path a young person who is not your child may or may not follow? Children do not need to be protected from Witchcraft, it is a benign and loving faith whose main tenet is "harm none". Despite the false witness of fundies a child is in no danger from Witches or from learning their faith. I would wager to say a child is in more danger from fundies who lie to it about, and teach it to hate, other religions.

Havoc
PS Don't claim you're not here to argue and then proceed to make your very prejudicial case. You are obviously here to either argue or just have everyone accept what you say as truth without question. If it is falsehood, and it disparages my religion, you can bet I'll call you on it.

seebs · Jul 30, 2002

"Witches" are about as homogenous a group as "monotheists" in a lot of ways. I have met witches who claim to be "white" witches, and who describe some other stuff as "black" witchcraft. I don't know enough to be able to call them "fake", and at some level, if you want people to accept that you are a "real witch", and qualified to make claims, you should admit that maybe they are also "real witches", even if they're different from you.

That said, I think it is just plain laughable to associate Harry Potter with any kind of real-world occultism. My sole concerns with the series are with the level of rule-breaking and lying considered "normal" or even admirable in the children. That said, coupled with lectures about these things, I'd let my kids read the books, if I had kids.

BlueGirlBby · Jul 31, 2002

I think that harry poter is an interesting book to read ,but It does send the wrong message to kids.Some kids might wanna try magic, and get their self in to stuff they can't handle.

Susan · Jul 31, 2002

Amen to that.
BlueGirl, I wanted to ask you something about your username. What does it stand for?

Ben Reid · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by seebs

That said, I think it is just plain laughable to associate Harry Potter with any kind of real-world occultism.

Seebs, you may not believe me, but I have talked to a former satanist who explicitly told me about some of the key people, driving forces and motivations about Harry Potter. What he told me would blow you away.

This is not harmless fun. This is a clever, sophisticated scheme to introduce children to the occult. Make no mistakes about it.

 

Aussie_Tash · Jul 31, 2002

And witchcraft is NOT in anyway good, read what the bible has to say about it.......

Sharky · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by Aussie_Tash
And witchcraft is NOT in anyway good, read what the bible has to say about it.......

Yup got that right! The bible says clearly you should stay away from such practises. I was talking to my christian cousin in the beginning of the year about harry potter. I watched the movie (just like all other movies) and was quite surprised on how it was practically trying to leap out and influence me. Especially a scene when harry potter was learning how to fly on the broom. I talked it over with my cus about such influence on younger children. For the young ones, especcially if their parents arn't watchful, they could be mislead in the wrong way which is probably important to keep them away from such stuff.

Even christian adults usually differentiate the difference between good and evil. "If you stay on the good side of magic, you're all right." Ehhhhh! Wrong. Good or bad magic, it is still witchcraft and is 'detestable to the Lord'. Young children are most vulnerable.

One of my teachers in my christian school talked about in a party when his friends or him (can't remember) said how a white witch came into the party and levitated herself in mid air. Everyone was like WOW looking up and down for strings or trickery but found none. Then when his friends told her that witch craft is bad, she just said she is a white which so it was fine with her. That's the kind of corruption you have today. Satan likes to show you the things you want. Not the truth.  Oh by the way my teacher is a christian and gave us good advice to stay away from it.

Aussie_Tash · Jul 31, 2002

That is so true Sharky....so many christians are saying that it is good over evil, and how good wins !! well i dunno what they are thinking , cause yeah as you said about good and bad magic it IS detestable to God.....and we christians must remember that

Havoc · Jul 31, 2002

It's amasing how Christians can justify all sorts of False Witness on their part in order to make themselves look better. Your bible forbids to practice any other religion, that in itself should be enough. There's no need to make up heinous crimes and conspiracies but Christians have always managed to do so. Some Christian, seeking fame and stature among his fellows, will claim some ridiculous story about being a former great-high-mucky-muck of some Witch Coven/Satanist nest/Illuminati Pizza Parlor and tell you all stories made up in his head about kidnapping, child abuse, rape, and all sorts of things no sane person would even think about, and you people just lap it up without even a question. Havn't you had enough MIke Warnkes, Rebecca Browns, and Michelle (mis)remembers? Havn't you been embarrassed enough when those people are exposed, usually by Christians, as being frauds? Don't you think when your God forbade false witness he meant no matter who you commit it against? Why is it necessary to even go so far as to alter your own bible to justify the killing of the members of another faith?

Evil is as evil does. The only thing Witches do which is against your Bible is practices like divination. That should be enough for you to avoid us but it is not enough for you to persecute us. We commit no crimes in secular law. We are forbidden to harm ourselves or others. There is no grand, exciting, gossip worthy conspiracy for you to whisper through excited pursed lips. We're not out to steal your children, we don't even proseletyse. When you commit false witness against us you only make yourselves look foolish to other non-Christians, which is probably why Fundamentalist Christianity is on the decline while less harmful faiths like ours are on the increase.

Havoc

Sharky · Jul 31, 2002

"It's amasing how Christians can justify all sorts of False Witness on their part in order to make themselves look better."

Well i'm not going to argue with that. You're right. What i was trying to say was coming straight out of my experience and rumours. Ok, it's a story but i wasn't condemning anyone not even you to it.

False witnessing? Fine, i'm sorry but you have to consider what i'm actually trying to get at though.

By the way are you a real witch/wizard? If so what kind do you practise? If not, nevermind .

Ben Reid · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by Havoc
It's amasing how Christians can justify all sorts of False Witness on their part in order to make themselves look better.

Havoc, I have borne no false witness, everything I have said came from first hand information.

There's no need to make up heinous crimes and conspiracies but Christians have always managed to do so.

This is quite a gross generalisation.

We are concerned for our brothers and sisters in Christ. For that we make no apology.

Some Christian, seeking fame and stature among his fellows, will claim some ridiculous story about being a former great-high-mucky-muck of some Witch Coven/Satanist nest/Illuminati Pizza Parlor and tell you all stories made up in his head about kidnapping, child abuse, rape, and all sorts of things no sane person would even think about, and you people just lap it up without even a question.

Please stop your false accusations. The satanist I talked to was very real, all too real. I can get them to contact you if you don't believe me, but if you already have the a priori assumption that the stories are all in his head, then you probably won't believe him anyway.

Havn't you had enough MIke Warnkes, Rebecca Browns, and Michelle (mis)remembers? Havn't you been embarrassed enough when those people are exposed, usually by Christians, as being frauds? Don't you think when your God forbade false witness he meant no matter who you commit it against? Why is it necessary to even go so far as to alter your own bible to justify the killing of the members of another faith?

There are frauds in any religion or large movement, Christianity and pagan religions are no different.

The distortion of Scripture to justify violence is wrong, I make no excuses for it. What I can say is that violence done by Christians is done in-spite of the teachings of Christ (not because of.)

The only thing Witches do which is against your Bible is practices like divination. That should be enough for you to avoid us but it is not enough for you to persecute us.

Who wants to persecute you?

Sharky · Jul 31, 2002

go ben!

Blynn · Jul 31, 2002

Since this is turning into a debate. I have moved this thread out of Fellowship Court to an Open Debate Forum.

Harry Potter - Good or bad?

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