Tuddrussell
The Dreamer of the Darkness
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Harry Potter Deathly Hollows Pt 2 *something That Doesn't Make Sense
- Thread starter help_the_lord
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Amber the Duskbringer
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I think there were factors that would have prevented it. Ron was always being hated on for being poor or red headed. Hermione saw the hatred towards her being half witch half muggle. No way voldamort would have been cool with her. Harry was well he dealt with being "that kid" with his aunt and uncle so maybe that helped instill some humility.
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The link did provide some useful details, yes. Thank you.
By what's described it does seem that the encounters with ghosts are simply phenomena rather than sought out encounters utilizing esoteric knowledge/magical formula/incantations/rituals, and divination is discouraged (though it is taught and they engage in it in class)
One thing that the post fails to deal with, however, is that it's reading into the text of the Bible to act as if it would be seen as good that a magical potion with an incantation/charm is 'for good' -- you are assuming based on nothing in the text -- that muttering incantations is opposed in Scripture without requiring that it be in the context of specific pagan worship.
And calling Moses and Aaron or the Apostles magicians for doing the actions they did is modernist revisionism and ancient heresy... there is nothing Christian with such a view. They were guided by God and miracles worked through them by God. Such was not the case with the magicians who served the Pharoah. To fail to make this distinction is gross error. God was not 'summoned by magic' -- that is not Christian theology at all.
And again, I've read ancient books from early Christian times where there were formula used, with no indication that they were anything other than techniques for manipulation, incantations -- you act as if there were no neo-platonists/esoteric philosophers doing theurgy. It's a major oversight. Incantations spoken for magical effect, special formula used to manipulate metaphysical realities, are sorcery -- forbidden 'curious arts' like the ones described in Acts, which the converts had owned but then destroyed after having a change of heart.
By what's described it does seem that the encounters with ghosts are simply phenomena rather than sought out encounters utilizing esoteric knowledge/magical formula/incantations/rituals, and divination is discouraged (though it is taught and they engage in it in class)
One thing that the post fails to deal with, however, is that it's reading into the text of the Bible to act as if it would be seen as good that a magical potion with an incantation/charm is 'for good' -- you are assuming based on nothing in the text -- that muttering incantations is opposed in Scripture without requiring that it be in the context of specific pagan worship.
And calling Moses and Aaron or the Apostles magicians for doing the actions they did is modernist revisionism and ancient heresy... there is nothing Christian with such a view. They were guided by God and miracles worked through them by God. Such was not the case with the magicians who served the Pharoah. To fail to make this distinction is gross error. God was not 'summoned by magic' -- that is not Christian theology at all.
And again, I've read ancient books from early Christian times where there were formula used, with no indication that they were anything other than techniques for manipulation, incantations -- you act as if there were no neo-platonists/esoteric philosophers doing theurgy. It's a major oversight. Incantations spoken for magical effect, special formula used to manipulate metaphysical realities, are sorcery -- forbidden 'curious arts' like the ones described in Acts, which the converts had owned but then destroyed after having a change of heart.
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*bemusment*
That is your personal opinion. I mean, that would appear to be what the words of institution, the liturgy and prayer are.
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In Scripture there's the term "mekhashphim", the mutterers, sorcerers... people who mutter incantations -- it's condemned.
Jesus said to remember Him and if we quote Scripture as we remember Him, we are simply being obedient, faithful, spiritual, participating in His rememberance, knowing that God will show mercy upon whomever He will show mercy. It's not bad to remember scripture, to proclaim Scripture, to quote Scripture as one does what Jesus commands one to do.
Jesus said to remember Him and if we quote Scripture as we remember Him, we are simply being obedient, faithful, spiritual, participating in His rememberance, knowing that God will show mercy upon whomever He will show mercy. It's not bad to remember scripture, to proclaim Scripture, to quote Scripture as one does what Jesus commands one to do.
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Nilloc
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You don't seem to understand how debate works. Its upon you to prove that the witchcraft being described in the Bible is what's in HP. You're making the positive assertion. I don't just assume something is wrong because the Bible doesn't address it.
According to who, you? Trying to make the biblical authors into twenty-first century fundies is revisionism of the highest order.
Again, according to who? You don't seem to understand that you and others in theological conservatism don't define Christianity. You assume your reading of the Bible is true and then read the texts with that interpretation. If anything contradicts this, it's automatically unchristian, so it can't possibly be true.
Here's the thing though: the Biblical writers didn't believe the same things you do. They held to many things you'd probably find reprehensible. Pretending that they act and think the way you do, as opposed to how people back then were, is one of your biggest errors in this thread.
Yet not the book your criticizing. Why should anybody take you seriously when you haven't read the thing your condemning?
It doesn't matter what they thought, because that's not what the Bible's addressing. The Biblical writers could care less about them. They also wouldn't care about a harmless fictional series that has gotten a lot of kids into reading.
Now, have you gone off with your ignorance and condemnation and diverted this thread long enough? I'm getting tired of reading your repetitious comments.
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Amber the Duskbringer
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Y'all have been takin this seriously? :O *goes back to reading elfquest comic*
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Amber the Duskbringer
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I don't have many of them, I have one my dad left me before he went away. It's a remake I think, I am up to the part where the boy is being forced to find the elves for the witch girl or his dogs will die :O *sad face*
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In Acts 19:19 there are reports of people in Ephesus burning the books of 'curious arts' that they owned, after seven sons of Sceva were beaten by a possessed man when they used Jesus' and Paul's name for authority over demons but the demon wasn't fooled, did not recognize their authority.
In the past when I was heavily into occultism I read ancient magic texts from the early centuries AD, I read heretical texts from the period, I read various philosophers and thaumaturgs from the period -- I know very well that not all sorcery, not all forbidden arts, not all divination, not all spellwork, etc., involves bowing to an idol or worshiping some pagan diety. I was into what I felt was sophisticated occultism and esotericism. And the sorts of texts I was into seem to me to have been among the books that the people of Ephesus burned when they recognized the power of Jesus Christ and the danger of the demonic realm.
It isn't good to encourage people to glamorize apprentice sorcerers, to go through the schooling in incantations and potions and astrology etc. Sorry, it just isn't good. It's not the sort of fiction I'd recommend for a Christian.
If you are going to be entertained by fiction that involves such things such a character might at least not be given front-stage-center treatment the whole time, there might as well be many other themes and focus. But in Harry Potter, there you have it: sorcery school, glamorized.
Meanwhile kids can get books on occultism, spells, spirits, channeling at the local bookstore.
So anyhow, as a Christian, that's where I'm coming from. You certainly have the ability, the 'freedom', to 'enjoy' sin for the time being, to be 'entertained' by the things of Hell all you want. But God's way is far better. As a Christian I'm called to better than that, so I avoid such fiction, because of the seriousness with which I treat various spiritual facts. In the past I had plenty of time to follow other ways, and it wasn't worth it.
In the past when I was heavily into occultism I read ancient magic texts from the early centuries AD, I read heretical texts from the period, I read various philosophers and thaumaturgs from the period -- I know very well that not all sorcery, not all forbidden arts, not all divination, not all spellwork, etc., involves bowing to an idol or worshiping some pagan diety. I was into what I felt was sophisticated occultism and esotericism. And the sorts of texts I was into seem to me to have been among the books that the people of Ephesus burned when they recognized the power of Jesus Christ and the danger of the demonic realm.
It isn't good to encourage people to glamorize apprentice sorcerers, to go through the schooling in incantations and potions and astrology etc. Sorry, it just isn't good. It's not the sort of fiction I'd recommend for a Christian.
If you are going to be entertained by fiction that involves such things such a character might at least not be given front-stage-center treatment the whole time, there might as well be many other themes and focus. But in Harry Potter, there you have it: sorcery school, glamorized.
Meanwhile kids can get books on occultism, spells, spirits, channeling at the local bookstore.
So anyhow, as a Christian, that's where I'm coming from. You certainly have the ability, the 'freedom', to 'enjoy' sin for the time being, to be 'entertained' by the things of Hell all you want. But God's way is far better. As a Christian I'm called to better than that, so I avoid such fiction, because of the seriousness with which I treat various spiritual facts. In the past I had plenty of time to follow other ways, and it wasn't worth it.
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Amber the Duskbringer
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That's cool but one thing that trumps all that. God made us in his image, he is very imaginative and he passed that onto us simple humes. You do what makes you happy and we do what we do to make us happy. I doubt the lord is going to be mad that we enjoy reading a book about wizards ^___^
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Amber the Duskbringer
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*passes out from the awesome* Between this, vgcats, penny arcade, lfg and 2kinds I should be quite entertained for some time!
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It's really weird, I mention that in my heart I can't see why a Christian would consider sorcerer's apprentice school entertaining or encourage such fiction for Christian entertainment, and I explain myself when challenged -- and that ruffles so many feathers?
Why does it ruffle so many feathers?
Why does it ruffle so many feathers?
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Amber the Duskbringer
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I don't have feathers but my tail would be poofed up if I was mad :O and I ain't mad :3 Like I said, to each their own ^__^
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Because it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about. You haven't read the books and puritanical attitudes towards fiction helps no one, and just makes Christians look backwards and superstitious to non-Christians.
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