Hard verses- Please explain

[daviddcbud]

What is Matthew 16:27-28 referring to? It can't be talking about his death and resurrection because he has not "REPAID EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS", it can't be referring to his 2nd coming because it says it will happen before some of those he was speaking to die.

 

[HypnoToad]

The passages aren't necessarily referring to the same thing. I can't see 27 referring to anything other than the 2nd coming. 28 is harder to figure out; one popular view is that it refers to the transfiguration that occurs shortly after this passage, and can be seen as foreshadowing the glory Christ will have in the 2nd coming - tying it in to verse 27.

 

[TimRout]

HypnoToad is right. 27 refers to the second coming. 28 refers to the Transfiguration event immediately thereafter. "Difficult" doesn't have to mean contradictory.

So Dave, you never did explain how you managed to become the world's first Agnosto-Baptist. Still roaming around trying to engineer decontextualized contradictions in Scripture?

 

[daviddcbud]

HypnoToad is right. 27 refers to the second coming. 28 refers to the Transfiguration event immediately thereafter. "Difficult" doesn't have to mean contradictory.

So Dave, you never did explain how you managed to become the world's first Agnosto-Baptist. Still roaming around trying to engineer decontextualized contradictions in Scripture?

HynoToad,
So in verse 28 Jesus says there are "some" who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom and the just 6 days later (read verse 1 in the next chapter) he "comes in His kingdom"?
If it only took 6 days to fulfill verse 28 then I'm sure all those standing there lived until it happened, Jesus said it in a way in verse 28 to mean that it would happen much later but before some of them died. Also, how is the transfiguration the "Son of Man coming in His kingdom"?

 

[HypnoToad]

HynoToad,
If it only took 6 days to fulfill verse 28 then I'm sure all those standing there lived until it happened,

He didn't simply say they'd live until it happened - He said they'd live until they SAW it. Most of the disciples did NOT see the transfiguration - it was only Peter, James, and John.

Also, how is the transfiguration the "Son of Man coming in His kingdom"?

Because they saw Jesus in His glory, just as He will be at the 2nd coming. There were those (Peter, James, and John) who saw Jesus in His glory before they died. The others didn't see it until after they died and saw Jesus in heaven.

 

[TimRout]

HynoToad,
So in verse 28 Jesus says there are "some" who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom and the just 6 days later (read verse 1 in the next chapter) he "comes in His kingdom"?
If it only took 6 days to fulfill verse 28 then I'm sure all those standing there lived until it happened, Jesus said it in a way in verse 28 to mean that it would happen much later but before some of them died. Also, how is the transfiguration the "Son of Man coming in His kingdom"?

Three things:

1. I agree with HypnoToad's assessment. Indeed, the immediate proximity of the kingdom statement to the transfiguration is similarly chacterized by both Mark [9:2] and Luke [9:27].

NOTE: Some have challenged the accuracy of Luke's account, given that he specifies a span of eight days between Jesus' kingdom statement and the transfiguration. That said, unlike Matthew or Mark who speak of six days with characteristic precision, Luke stipulates that "eight days later" is an approximation. Thus the NASB rightly renders the verse, "And some eight days after these saying...." Since Luke was not an eyewitness, but was only reporting what he had heard from first hand sources, an approximation based on slightly differing data would not be unreasonable.

2. Standing here in the 21st century, it can be difficult to grasp the intent of some things Jesus said. The disciples were Jesus' friends. They lived with Him, traveled with Him, and heard many of His sermons. Thus, we can gain some insight into the meaning of Matthew 16:27-28 by observing their reactions.

When one considers that Paul, writing about the same time as Matthew, did not expect to see Jesus return in his lifetime [Titus 2:11-14; 2 Timothy 4:6], and John, who wrote some thirty years later likewise had no such expectation [John 21:23], it is unreasonable to conclude that Jesus promised to return before the end of their lifetimes. Though the Apostles may have hoped this would happen (as many Christians do), Jesus made no such promise. Reading Matthew 16 in its broader context can help shed light on this issue.

3. Having interacted with you previously on this forum, I remain confused as to how you can espouse both a Baptist and an Agnostic worldview. Though I have repeatedly asked you to explain this seeming incongruity, you have yet to respond.

 

[daviddcbud]

to say they'd live until they SAW it, when it was going to happen less than a week later seems strange, I think it's more logical that Jesus is referring to something that was supposed to happen far off but before some of them passed away. Also, seeing Jesus "as he will be in his 2nd coming" is not what verse 28 says, the verse says they will see Jesus coming in His Kingdom, Peter, James and John did not see Jesus coming in His Kingdom .I suppose Matthew 10:23 is also referring to the transfiguration or is this some other "coming" that I need to know about?In response to TimRout's curiosity about me, let's just say I've been a Baptist all my life and am now questioning alot of things about my beliefs, I'm ready for some real answers to some things that have been bothering me for years.

 

[TimRout]

to say they'd live until they SAW it, when it was going to happen less than a week later seems strange, I think it's more logical that Jesus is referring to something that was supposed to happen far off but before some of them passed away. Also, seeing Jesus "as he will be in his 2nd coming" is not what verse 28 says, the verse says they will see Jesus coming in His Kingdom, Peter, James and John did not see Jesus coming in His Kingdom .I suppose Matthew 10:23 is also referring to the transfiguration or is this some other "coming" that I need to know about?In response to TimRout's curiosity about me, let's just say I've been a Baptist all my life and am now questioning alot of things about my beliefs, I'm ready for some real answers to some things that have been bothering me for years.

Real answers? Sounds like you've already drawn your conclusions, Dave.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

HynoToad,
So in verse 28 Jesus says there are "some" who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom and the just 6 days later (read verse 1 in the next chapter) he "comes in His kingdom"?
If it only took 6 days to fulfill verse 28 then I'm sure all those standing there lived until it happened, Jesus said it in a way in verse 28 to mean that it would happen much later but before some of them died. Also, how is the transfiguration the "Son of Man coming in His kingdom"?

Matt 10:23 is another toughy. It is as if Revelation is following the Apostles thru their Ministry.

http://www.scripture4all.org/


Matt 10:23 "Whenever yet they may be pursuing/persecuting/diwkwsin <1377> (5725) ye in the city, this, be fleeing into the other.
For Amen I am saying to ye, not no ye should be finishing the cities of the Israel till ever may be coming the Son of the Man".

Reve 12:13 And when the dragon saw that it was cast into the land, it chases/pursues/ediwxen <1377> (5656) the woman who-any brought forth the male.
17 And is wroth, the Dragon, upon the woman, and came-away to do battle with the remnant of her seed, of the ones keeping the commandments of the GOD and having the Witness of Jesus.