hard to take in

[seajoy]

I just found out a couple of days ago, that a friend of ours has been excommunicated from a WELS church. I'm not going to get into the reasons. I have not seen this person for almost 3 years. It's just that it has depressed me very much, in fact, I'm surprised how much this has affected me. I feel like there has been a death.

Can anyone explain what all this means for my friend? I've never known anyone closely who was excommunicated before. And please don't ask me the whys - I'm not going to get into that.

Thanks for listening, and understanding.

 

[DaRev]

The intent of excommunication is not to throw someone out of the Church, but rather is a last resort to move the person to repentance. Once repentance and absolution is granted, the individual is accepted back into the fold.

 

[seajoy]

The intent of excommunication is not to throw someone out of the Church, but rather is a last resort to move the person to repentance. Once repentance and absolution is granted, the individual is accepted back into the fold.

but if that doesn't happen......?

 

[LilLamb219]

Are you concerned about this friend's salvation, Ang?

 

[seajoy]

Are you concerned about this friend's salvation, Ang?

I guess I thought that if a person is excommunicated they can't get into heaven.

 

[alexnbethmom]

I guess I thought that if a person is excommunicated they can't get into heaven.

my thought is, going by what Rev said, that if they are finally repentant then they would be brought back into the church, and being repentant, would get into Heaven.....

i'm sorry, angie - i can only just imagine how really hard this is.....

 

[Bryne]

I don't think that a church excommunicating someone can keep them out of heaven.

 

[LilLamb219]

I don't think that a church excommunicating someone can keep them out of heaven.

The only thing that damns us is unbelief in the Savior who died in our place for the forgiveness of our sins. If this is your friend's sin, then I hope he returns to faith. But if this is not your friend's sin, he surely is in danger to losing faith if excommunication has been done...I'm just not so certain he is there yet. Only God who knows our hearts knows for sure.

Edited to add that I agree with what Bryne wrote...forgot to add that earlier and you're probably wondering why I did the quote! LOL

 

[DaRev]

I don't think that a church excommunicating someone can keep them out of heaven.

I don't mean to sound negative, but excommunication is the result of an unrepentant sin. Unrepentant sin is not forgiven.

Having said that, we don't know the circumstances of the individual mentioned in the OP, so we can't really say anymore.

 

[Studeclunker]

Something like this has happened at the WELS church I attend. The fellow was refused communion by the Pastor for over a year. I remember the first time, the fellow had a fit! His family were served, but he just sat in the pew most of the time. Sometimes he would leave the service at that point. I noticed that a goodly portion of the congregation avoided him too. Most of this I've been looking at in retrospective though. He was put through the 'statement of faith' thing and is now back in the fold. What happened, I don't know and really don't want to as it's none of my business. Then again, this fellow is on the other side of the glass wall and those people don't much associate with me. Thus I wouldn't have known anyway.

What I'm rambling on about, Sis, is that your friend, though excommunicated, is still your friend. Pray for his soul and don't give up on him. As long as he lives, there's hope.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Seajoy, it is hard to learn that someone is in sin. One thing that you can do is to pray for them and their faith.

 

[seajoy]

I don't mean to sound negative, but excommunication is the result of an unrepentant sin. Unrepentant sin is not forgiven.

Having said that, we don't know the circumstances of the individual mentioned in the OP, so we can't really say anymore.

All I'll say is that it's both doctrinal, and also sinful in how the pastor and other leaders have been treated in this process.

I know you don't mean to sound negative - and I appreciate that - but I would like to know the truth of what happens to an unrepentant excommunicated person. Don't put any frosting on it, in other words. And, yes, I have questions out to my pastor as well. I just don't think we have talked about excommunication here very much. And I'm feeling pretty crummy about this whole thing.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

All I'll say is that it's both doctrinal, and also sinful in how the pastor and other leaders have been treated in this process.

I know you don't mean to sound negative - and I appreciate that - but I would like to know the truth of what happens to an unrepentant excommunicated person. Don't put any frosting on it, in other words. And, yes, I have questions out to my pastor as well. I just don't think we have talked about excommunication here very much. And I'm feeling pretty crummy about this whole thing.

Seajoy,

What Rev said in his post is what the Bible says; through the Office of the Keys, our Lord has given the duty to bind and forgive sin.

As an Elder I was involved in two such instances, both involved marital infidelity. Because this is such a serious matter, in both cases our Pastor consulted with the Elders.

In the first incidence I was also personally involved because the person was not only my cousin but my employer as well. This person turned completely against both the Church and God, and never returned. For the duration of my employment (some 15 years after the incident) I daily listened to him curse God and mock my faith; it was very hard, and I daily tried to reach him, but without success. I will say that rather than destroy my faith, this unfortunate situation only strengthened my resolve.

In the second instance, the man involved walked away from LCC, and joined a local ELCIC Congregation (they could not care less about the excommunication in our synod and welcomed him into full Communion in their Church). Both of his kids were in my youth class at the time, and they and their mother are still my very good friends.

All that we can do is pray that the Holy Spirit work within those who are outside the Church, and bring repentance and conversion. I will pray for your friend.

Mark

 

[Zecryphon]

All I'll say is that it's both doctrinal, and also sinful in how the pastor and other leaders have been treated in this process.

I know you don't mean to sound negative - and I appreciate that - but I would like to know the truth of what happens to an unrepentant excommunicated person. Don't put any frosting on it, in other words. And, yes, I have questions out to my pastor as well. I just don't think we have talked about excommunication here very much. And I'm feeling pretty crummy about this whole thing.

Seajoy,

here is an answer to your question from the WELS website on Excommunication:

Excommunication

Under what circumstances is a person excommunicated? Should members be disciplined by taking away communion privileges?

Congregations must excommunicate members who have sinned and refuse to repent even though their fellow Christians have warned them according to the steps described in Matthew 18:15-18. An excommunicated person cannot attend the Lord's Supper or exercise any rights of membership in the congregation.

A member can be excommunicated only if his (or her) action is clearly against God's law, if it is proven that he is guilty of sin, and if he has refused warnings to repent. Scripture says an impenitent person has no forgiveness of sins. Excommunication, therefore, does not simply exclude an individual from membership in the congregation, but declares that the offender has excluded himself from eternal life since no impenitent person has forgiveness of sins and no unforgiven person can enter heaven.

The congregation excommunicates a person in the hope that this drastic step will lead the sinner to come to his senses and repent. The excommunicated person will then be welcomed back to the congregation.

Excommunication, therefore, is an act of love for sinners, aimed at saving them from the eternal consequences of impenitence.

When the case has not yet proceeded to the point of excommunication, a pastor who knows that a person is impenitent should warn him or her not to come to communion, since it offers forgiveness only to the repentant. Those who come without repentance bring harm upon themselves by misuse of the sacrament. Exclusion from the Lord's Supper has the same evangelical purpose as excommunication: to bring the sinner to repentance. The pastor can take such action only if the guilt and impenitence of the person are clearly established but the congregation has not yet had an opportunity to act on the case.

* The above was taken from: http://www.wels.net/news-events/forward-in-christ/february-1995/excommunication

The best answer I can give you to your question is that this person who has been excommunicated, will most likely remain outside of the church until he/she is led to repentance by the Holy Spirit.

You may also want to read this article, also from the WELS website:

http://www.wels.net/news-events/forward-in-christ/august-2000/nth-degree-love

 

[DaRev]

All I'll say is that it's both doctrinal, and also sinful in how the pastor and other leaders have been treated in this process.

I know you don't mean to sound negative - and I appreciate that - but I would like to know the truth of what happens to an unrepentant excommunicated person. Don't put any frosting on it, in other words. And, yes, I have questions out to my pastor as well. I just don't think we have talked about excommunication here very much. And I'm feeling pretty crummy about this whole thing.

Repentance is worked in us by the Holy Spirit. Unrepentance is a rejection of the work of the Holy Spirit, which by definition is unbelief. And unbelief is the only damnable sin.

Can't get any less frosted than that. But then again, I don't know the particulars of your friend's situation, so I can't judge.