Hannukah

[JewishHeart]

How many people here know that the 'miracle of the lamps' never happened as some believe? According to Israeli historians and the book of the Macabees this is what happened...


The book of the Macabees does not mention the miracle at all, just the Macabees rebellion from the Greeks and Antiochus and the redidication of the temple. They celebrated the rededication seven days, why?

Because there was occupation at the temple Sukkouth wasn't celebrated that year. After the Macabees rededicated the temple they celebrated Sukkouth.

The story(agada) of the miracle appears first in the Mishna from 100 CE. There are many stories (agada) in the Mishna, agada means legend or it could've happened this way.

Israeli historians say that the reason the rabis decided to put this agada in the Mishna is because after the Bar Kochva revolt failure and facing the cry for a new revolt the rabis decided to change the theme of Hannukah from 'rebellion' to miracle in order to avoid another revolt failure.

I personally think that they choose to promote a sense of false peace and took away the main theme of rebelling against idolatry.


What says you?

 

[ShirChadash]

Matters little to me... the Chanukkah lights remind me of the very real fact that I serve a G-d of mercy and miracle. I'll continue to celebrate... as I celebrate His miracles every day -- everytime I look at my children, everytime I remember how Yeshua stood next to me even as I lay on my deathbed a few times now and His presence was so thick and sweet in the room comforting me. It's His miraculous Love and Mercy I focus on with Channukah teaching and lighting the lights.

 

[ShirChadash]

How many people here know that the 'miracle of the lamps' never happened as some believe?

<snip>

agada means legend or it could've happened this way.

BTW, saying something "COULD" have happened "this way" is not the same as declaring it "never happened" or never happened as we think.

 

[JewishHeart]

everytime I look at my children, everytime I remember how Yeshua stood next to me even as I lay on my deathbed a few times now and His presence was so thick and sweet in the room comforting me. It's His miraculous Love and Mercy I focus on with Channukah teaching and lighting the lights.

Zemirah,

His presence is so sweet ! I would love to hear this testimony completely sometime ! I also do believe in miracles, but am just trying to say to question something we take as fact.

 

[simchat_torah]

Interestingly, in the Brit Chadasha, Channukah is referred to as the festival of lights. If the light miracle had not happened, would one not think that the first century Jews would have known this????


just a thought.

Though I do agree, more focus needs to be given to the destruction of the pagan symbols that were placed in the Temple.

shalom,
yafet

 

[JewishHeart]

last time i checked in the brit chadashah john 10 is the only chapter that mentions hannukah and says nothing about a festival of lights

 

[simchat_torah]

I suppose it depends on which translation you use...
Sometimes John 10:22 is rendered:
Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

and other times it is rendered:
Now it was the Festival of Lights in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

None the less, it is within this context that Y'shua gave the teachings about being the 'light of the world'. As well, as history records, the Feast of Dedication is Channukah. During this time, at the Temple, a giant menorah was erected and lit for several days... which could clearly be seen far into the countryside (wilderness). Many have supposed Y'shua was using this as an illustration when he spoke the words, "I am the light of the world."

Shalom,
yafet

 

[JewishHeart]

Light of the WOrld??? Dedication means dedication of temple which macabees does mention.


Joh 10:22 It was the Feast of Chanukkah at Yerushalayim.
Joh 10:23 It was winter, and Yeshua was walking in the temple, in Shlomo's porch.
Joh 10:24 The Judeans therefore came around him and said to him, "How long will you hold us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."
Joh 10:25 Yeshua answered them, "I told you, and you don't believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, these testify about me.
Joh 10:26 But you don't believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one."
Joh 10:31 Therefore the Judeans took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Yeshua answered them, "I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?"
Joh 10:33 The Judeans answered him, "We don't stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, make yourself God."
Joh 10:34 Yeshua answered them, "Isn't it written in your Torah, 'I said, you are gods?'
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can't be broken),
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God?'
Joh 10:37 If I don't do the works of my Father, don't believe me.
Joh 10:38 But if I do them, though you don't believe me, believe the works; that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Joh 10:39 They sought again to seize him, and he went out of their hand.
Joh 10:40 He went away again beyond the Yarden into the place where Yochanan was immersing at first, and there he stayed.
Joh 10:41 Many came to him. They said, "Yochanan indeed did no sign, but everything that Yochanan said about this man is true."
Joh 10:42 Many believed in him there.

 

[simchat_torah]

Unfortunately, JH, the "bible" was not broken up into chapters so nice and neat. When I said "context" I was referring to:

“While I am in the world, I am the light of the world” (John 9:5)

and

"I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)

 

[debi b]

I know this is a little "off" of what was being talked about, but...

I sure hope Mel doesn't do a movie on Hanukkah ( I heard he was thinking about it....)

 

[EchadHashem]

Is there any reference to keeping a feast because of the Macc revolt in the time of Yeshua? Isn't the reference in John about the dedication of the 2nd Temple as recorded in Haggai. The book Macc was never cannonized. Somehow I doubt that there would have been a festival re: an event recorded in a book not worth being canonized.

Does Josephus have anything to say?

Shalom.

 

[koilias]

Unfortunately, JH, the "bible" was not broken up into chapters so nice and neat. When I said "context" I was referring to:

“While I am in the world, I am the light of the world” (John 9:5)

and

"I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)

Even more than context, JH, this part of Yohannan is part of the "Fourth Day" Section (John 8 to John 11), which deals with the theme of lights that rule between day and night (heavenly lamps, which were created in the fourth day of the creation). It is the overarching metaphor of the section. So it makes incredible sense that Yohannan would mention the feast of dedication (lights).

Also Paul refers to Psalm 44 in Romans 8:35-6:

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [Shall] (1) tribulation, or (2) distress, or (3) persecution, or (4) famine, or (5) nakedness, or (6) peril, or (7) sword? 36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."

Psalm 44 in Jewish tradition is said to refer prophetically to the seven martyred sons in the Maccabean revolt. The theme of Romans 8 is about the efficaciousness of a believer's suffering and martyrdom. Paul is encouraging his readers to be courageous like the seven martyred sons.