Hanging out with sinners?

[Trinity78]

Hi all,

I know the bible states that once we are born again we are not to hang out with sinners. Am I correct? But what if Im hanging around with so called "christian," and I use the term loosely because they commit more sin against God that the actually non- believers. I work with someone that has been going to church for all her life she practically grew up in church, this woman is grown with 2 young kids. Everytime I talk to her she is dating someone new, not to mention married and or in a relationship, she has slept around so much is not even funny - not to talk about her, but to me is kind of disappointing to see and hear someone that is suppose to be rooted in the word to act this way. I know everyone has weakness, but we also have choices. Im not perfect and I know she is not either, but as a christian she should set an example to the ones that are new. My question is should I hang out with her since she is constantly doing these things? she is a nice person, but she just seems to get involved with men that are already in a relationship. Then she thinks what she is doing is not wrong and wonders why God does not bless her . Any advice. She then tells me I should not tell her anything since Im in sin( I've been in a long term relationship and live with my bf and we are not married) but I tell her our situation is different. I know im suppose to be married, but we are working on that. Am I wrong for thinking this way?

 

[suzybeezy]

The Bible states we are not to be "equally yoked" with unbelievers, but I will say that I have friends who are not Christians - that doesn't mean we are "equally yoked". The way I look at it is that I can be a witness to them and maybe bring them to Christ. As for your co-worker, no she's not setting a good example of what Christianity should be, but maybe you could try to open to the door of communications. This may present an opportunity to witness to her and maybe bring about a change in her. Ya' never know who you may impact and who you could help bring to God. I would recommend before any discussion you pray and ask for God's guidance.

 

[freeport]

Hi all,

I know the bible states that once we are born again we are not to hang out with sinners. Am I correct? But what if Im hanging around with so called "christian," and I use the term loosely because they commit more sin against God that the actually non- believers. I work with someone that has been going to church for all her life she practically grew up in church, this woman is grown with 2 young kids. Everytime I talk to her she is dating someone new, not to mention married and or in a relationship, she has slept around so much is not even funny - not to talk about her, but to me is kind of disappointing to see and hear someone that is suppose to be rooted in the word to act this way. I know everyone has weakness, but we also have choices. Im not perfect and I know she is not either, but as a christian she should set an example to the ones that are new. My question is should I hang out with her since she is constantly doing these things? she is a nice person, but she just seems to get involved with men that are already in a relationship. Then she thinks what she is doing is not wrong and wonders why God does not bless her . Any advice. She then tells me I should not tell her anything since Im in sin( I've been in a long term relationship and live with my bf and we are not married) but I tell her our situation is different. I know im suppose to be married, but we are working on that. Am I wrong for thinking this way?

Today is dark, you have to go by the Spirit.

Fornication is a very bad sin.


If you and your bf are devoted and consider yourselves married, you are married, but you could be challenging those with a weaker conscience who need ritual substance...

Every single person one sleeps with, they have unioned their body with.

It sounds like, however, you and your bf do not consider yourselves married, from your statements. And that is a problem. Because you are. Wedding ceremonies mean nothing, sleeping with someone -- that is marriage.


I would make a decision to believe Jesus and consider yourselves married.


Otherwise, you are straining this girl.

 

[heymikey80]

A few thoughts.

You're a new Christian. She doesn't appear to be. And her situation's better? You're headed toward redeeming that situation. She doesn't appear to be. And her situation's better?

No, you have no cause to rely on her for spiritual support as a Christian. I'd probably keep her at arm's length from my faith as a carnal Christian, but not as a teacher.

You have Christian teachers -- they're the people who make it a point to recognize and move away from sin, and who make it a point to practice -- be involved -- in doing righteousness. That doesn't mean they're perfect at it. They aren't. But "He seems ahead of me" is a good first-cut at determining who to rely on for spiritual insight.

The chapters in Scripture on this matter are very tough for newbie Christians to understand. I'd post them, but I'm reluctant. It's too easy to worry about them, to go overboard or to just give up based on how they translate in English. Believe me, I've spent years looking directly at them to verify they're understood this way. Head in the direction of Jesus. Those who're ahead of you in practice, listen to them, but understand that they're sinners too. Those who are behind you, well, you really don't need to learn from them at this point -- right?

First John addresses many of these issues. So do certain chapters of Ephesians and others of Paul's letters.

 

[ministerfortson]

Jesus hung out and ate with sinners. Moses sinned, David sinned, Abraham sinned, and Lot had sex with his own daughters, but God hung around and talked to them. All these are very important people in the Bible.

As far as fornication is concerned its not actually a "very bad" sin as another poster has said. All sins are bad. God doesn't give weight to sin. James mentioned that if you offended in one part of the law, you offend in all (James 2:10). The sin we commonly refer to as fornication also doesn't mean the same in Greek. In Greek, it specifically refers to PROSTITUTION. The English language does a severe injustice to some parts of the Bible and personal opinions do much worse. I wrote an entire article on "shacking up" that explores the root word and how it changed in modern church culture. If you'd like to read it, send me a PM.

People claim that because Paul said we should marry only one person that is God's law. Paul also said he'd prefer if we stayed single and unmarried, but you don't hear people going around preaching the stay single doctrine.

 

[visionary]

From what you have written you have already indicated that your conscience has spoken to your heart on the subject. You have justified your current position, and find fault with a fellow believers. Rather than looking at "logs in the eye" concentrated on your personal relationship with God and the cleansing of your own soul. You can not help others if you are still drowning in your own sins as you have seen with this example that you have presented.

 

[Forealzchola]

I dont think that God has problems with hanging out with unbelievers..if they arent around us how will they be exposed to the light and children of God>? My best friend is a muslim and we have the best relationship ever...she supports me and my beliefs..and she doesnt make fun of me or put me down..i havent really met any real born-again christians in all my days..i have met "christian-affiliates" however who look down on me for living for God or for trying to live a 100 in the past...so i love diversity..people of different cultures, races and religions..and thats what i keep around me..and thats whats been working for me.

 

[christandisrael]

We, as Christians, sin. You can hang out with whomever you choose. God told us to love everyone. Now, bad company does corrupt good character. If your friends do something that is contrary to the Word, then don't do it. As for less or more Christian, it is not our job to judge, but God's alone.

 

[donb1959]

Well first...

If you and your bf are devoted and consider yourselves married, you are married, but you could be challenging those with a weaker conscience who need ritual substance...

This is not scriptural.
"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."
Mark 10:7, 8

If you are young in the faith and I take it you are, then don't hang around anyone that causes you to stumble. The main thing is that you are not being critical of some one elses sin. You say she should be setting an example, and as a mature christian she should, but what if someone new to the faith looks to you as an example, what would they say? Living with someone apart from marriage is not a small thing no matter what some may say.

But again I say, if someone is causeing you to stumble, stay away from them until you have grown enough to be a witness.

Shalom,
DonB

 

[Jeffz]

As far as doing what is right in the sight of God we are called to submit to authorities, and civil authority does constitute an authority ordained by God. So I think that we should be married if we are living together, as someone else said it is not a good witness to younger babes in the LORD.

Rom 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Rom 13:2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Rom 13:3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

Rom 13:4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Rom 13:5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

If our conscience tells us to do good and we disregard it, we commit sin. If we sin we are told to go to God and seek forgiveness and turn from our ways.

Jeffrey

 

[heron]

It sounds like, however, you and your bf do not consider yourselves married, from your statements. And that is a problem. Because you are.

By law in some areas, you are in a commonlaw marriage, depending on how long you have lived together.

A marriage is a public declaration of intent. If this were not enforced, then women would be stuck raising many children from rapes, short relationships, multiple partnerships, and men's whims. Society could not sustain itself this way. And women would eventually be a severely oppressed class.

But back to your question, the Bible has advice on wisdom in how you relate to people. Jesus knew that even religious leaders were two-faced, and He confronted them. Acts 5 tells of Ananias and Saphira, who inflated perceptions of their generosity. The Bible does not condone the corrupt actions of believers. We all sin, but we don't all intentionally live as though our actions don't matter.

I also value friends who are not believers. There are certain traits that I am drawn toward, and I know who I can confide in or trust or get good advice from. Each person is separate in my mind.

I have an agnostic friend who has been strong through a lot of life struggles, and she is very knowledgeable about resources, the human spirit, and how to handle unexpected problems.

I have a Christian friend who has also gone through problems, but knows too many people that I would talk about if I confided in her, so I guard my words.

I have Christian friends who have amazing knowledge and faith in deep areas, but are no help if I confide in them about problems. My story spreads because they choose to intercede in groups, and spread my information. They are dear friends, but I know my limits with them. It is more naivete than ill intent causes the damage.

Set up a system for yourself that you can trust. Act wisely. Don't go with others' rules about your social network, especially if it seems like random doctrine. Pray that God will lead good people across your path.

 

[epistemaniac]

God's word says to obey man's laws as long as they are not contrary to the scriptures, so you are wrong to live with your boyfriend and to have sex with him outside of being married in a ceremony which acknowledges your union before man and God... so the woman you are confronting is right to tell you about your own sin... this does not make what she is doing right of course... but she is actually applying the following biblical principles....

Rom 2:1-23 You may be saying, "What terrible people you have been talking about!" But you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you do these very same things. (2) And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. (3) Do you think that God will judge and condemn others for doing them and not judge you when you do them, too? (4) Don't you realize how kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Or don't you care? Can't you see how kind he has been in giving you time to turn from your sin? (5) But no, you won't listen. So you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself because of your stubbornness in refusing to turn from your sin. For there is going to come a day of judgment when God, the just judge of all the world, (6) will judge all people according to what they have done. (7) He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. (8) But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and practice evil deeds. (9) There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning-for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. (10) But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good-for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. (11) For God does not show favoritism. (12) God will punish the Gentiles when they sin, even though they never had God's written law. And he will punish the Jews when they sin, for they do have the law. (13) For it is not merely knowing the law that brings God's approval. Those who obey the law will be declared right in God's sight. (14) Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. (15) They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right. (16) The day will surely come when God, by Jesus Christ, will judge everyone's secret life. This is my message. (17) If you are a Jew, you are relying on God's law for your special relationship with him. You boast that all is well between yourself and God. (18) Yes, you know what he wants; you know right from wrong because you have been taught his law. (19) You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind and a beacon light for people who are lost in darkness without God. (20) You think you can instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God. For you are certain that in God's law you have complete knowledge and truth. (21) Well then, if you teach others, why don't you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? (22) You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you do it? You condemn idolatry, but do you steal from pagan temples? (23) You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it."

Mat 7:1-5 "Stop judging others, and you will not be judged. (2) For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged. (3) And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own? (4) How can you think of saying, 'Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye? (5) Hypocrite! First get rid of the log from your own eye; then perhaps you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."

This does not mean that we are all powerless and ought never confront the sin in another person's life because we ourselves are sinners, but rather if we are involved in a certain sin, and say that this is in fact a sin, but even though we ourselves engage in the very same sin, we condemn someone else or the very same sin, we are bieng hypocrites. In this case, you are involved in sexual sin with your boyfriend, you may have only one boyfriend, you have sex with only one man and have done so for quite sometime, you are still involved in a sexual sex, namely fornication, since you and your boyfriend are just "living together" and not married. So your friend is right in pointing out the inconsistency in your condemnation of her, given that you are also living in sin. Given that there is nothing stopping you and your boyfriend from getting married, what is stopping you?

blessings,
ken

 

[heron]

OP

My question is should I hang out with her since she is constantly doing these things?

Sorry that we keep getting off track from your question.
​

Proverbs 17:12
Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than a fool in his folly.

Proverbs 13:20
He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.

Proverbs 14:7
Stay away from a foolish man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips.

These verses do not say to stay away from non-believers, but from foolish people. You are disturbed by her careless decisions, and know that sleeping around spreads serious diseases. You also know how easily she could get pregnant, and her child could grow up with an estranged (or resented) father.

Experience shows us not to lean on people who live for themselves, depending on pleasure or attention or feeding their restlessness to keep them grounded. They will eventually put us in a position that we are used to cover for them with lies, asked to help destroy another person, or expected to pamper when they suffer for their mistakes.

Scripturally, an unbeliever or outsider in our midst is expected to be welcomed...
​

Leviticus 19:34
The foreigners residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.

... but we are to guard ourselves from people who are deceitful, defiant, and unwise.
​

Proverbs 7

21 With persuasive words she led him astray;
she seduced him with her smooth talk.

22 All at once he followed her
like an ox going to the slaughter,
like a deer stepping into a noose

23 till an arrow pierces his liver,
like a bird darting into a snare,
little knowing it will cost him his life.

24 Now then, my sons, listen to me;
pay attention to what I say.
25 Do not let your heart turn to her ways
or stray into her paths.

26 Many are the victims she has brought down;
her slain are a mighty throng.

27 Her house is a highway to the grave,
leading down to the chambers of death.


Proverbs 14:8
The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the folly of fools is deception.

Proverbs 11:29
He who brings trouble on his family will inherit only wind, and the fool will be servant to the wise.

Proverbs 17:24
A discerning man keeps wisdom in view, but a fool's eyes wander to the ends of the earth.

Proverbs 14:1
The wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands the foolish one tears hers down.


1 John 2

15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.

17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

 

[heron]

Scriptural advice was given not to put a foreigner or unbeliever in a position that they will be making decisions for us. This doesn't quite apply, unless you suddenly find her to be your supervisor (after sleeping with the boss?).

Solomon married foreign wives, who eventually demanded pagan temples to be built... the same generation that God's temple was finally finished. (And he is known for writing the books of wisdom... )

And believers or unbelievers who corrupted the social system were also to be dealt with... sacrificing kids to Molech etc.

You seem to sense trouble brewing when you are around her. Listen to the Holy Spirit inside you.

 

[throughchristimchanged]

Hi all,

I know the bible states that once we are born again we are not to hang out with sinners. Am I correct?(theres a thing with this such as a street ministry team, that actually go out and talk with these certain types of children, to affiliate with them is another story, I wouldnt unless you are teaching them about GOD, and you are strong in the LORD) But what if Im hanging around with so called "christian," and I use the term loosely because they commit more sin against God(then they are not Christians merely false prophets) that the actually non- believers. I work with someone that has been going to church for all her life she practically grew up in church, this woman is grown with 2 young kids. Everytime I talk to her she is dating someone new, not to mention married and or in a relationship, she has slept around so much is not even funny(this woman could be your student, and you could help her, if you choose to proactively sought the LORD) - not to talk about her, but to me is kind of disappointing to see and hear someone that is suppose to be rooted in the word to act this way. I know everyone has weakness, but we also have choices. Im not perfect and I know she is not either, but as a christian she should set an example to the ones that are new. My question is should I hang out with her since she is constantly doing these things? she is a nice person, but she just seems to get involved with men that are already in a relationship. Then she thinks what she is doing is not wrong and wonders why God does not bless her . Any advice. She then tells me I should not tell her anything since Im in sin( I've been in a long term relationship and live with my bf and we are not married) but I tell her our situation is different. I know im suppose to be married, but we are working on that.(wherever you are in life I hope you continue to smile, you deserve it) Am I wrong for thinking this way?

it depends are you falling under her? why are you letting her get involved? you are never wrong for being "undecided"

 

[visionary]

Stand strong for your faith in him, as she may have been many years in the church but hasn't seen any strong believers or being with them to know that there is a real life in Him. It is one thing to say that you are a "christian" and it is quite another to live the life of a believer. As for association, may you be a witness in love with the truth, and if tempted to follow in the fallen state, then part. It is better to keep your salvation, than to lose it being friends with someone who can take you down.