Halloween

I don't much care for Halloween - the creepy stuff now a days, anyway (like Stude says). But we did let our kids trick or treat, but not in constumes of evil stuff. Our son was superman, a doctor and that's about all I remember. Our daughter was a princess - and one year my kids were a pair of dice. I usually handed out candy when we lived in town. Now that we are in the boonies, it saves me money.

It's fun. My former Pastor always took his girls out dressed in "cute" costumes. When they stopped by, he always got a treat too... usually a glass of good whiskey or a dark beer!

MarkRohfrietsch said:

It's fun. My former Pastor always took his girls out dressed in "cute" costumes. When they stopped by, he always got a treat too... usually a glass of good whiskey or a dark beer!

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Mark - you turn everything into quite the holiday!

I don't think its a bad thing if done in a non evil way.

alexnbethmom said:

just curious what everybody's thoughts are regarding halloween? we have always done halloween, the kids always dressed up, we always handed out candy - my son is too old for ToT'ing at this point, but my daughter still wants to....

i have never had a problem with this, in my thoughts, we never let the kids dress up as anything scary or yucky, it's always been things like woody from toy story, tinkerbelle, a doctor, red riding hood, scarlet o'hara, spiderman, stuff like that....we never really decorated except for pumpkins, only because they are so much fun to carve.....and in my mind, it's just a day for kids to bug the neighbors for candy and know it's allowed....

what does everybody else think of it?

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I don't have a problem with it. My wife and I have both dressed up and handed out candy over the years. I've heard the arguments against it, and been involved in debates over this and I know there are people who say "you're not a true Christian if you participate in Halloween," and to them I say, I'm not a Christian because of anything I do good or bad. I'm a Christian because Christ saved me. It has nothing to do with anything I do or have done.

Hope you all don't mind me popping in here. It's in fellowship, so it should be okay!

Anyway, I don't see a huge problem with halloween if done appropriately, as has been mentioned. I remember being a California raisin, a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, a clown, and such. Though there were a couple years I was Dracula, but in my defense... Buffy and Angel hadn't come out yet.

Given that my wife and I are both Buffy and Angel fans, as well as fans of Supernatural (the TV show, not to be confused with The Supernatural-all the ideas of ghosts really existing and such), and things like that, our kid will definitely know about stuff, but I'm not going to let them go too demony or anything with it. And of course, we'll celebrate All Saint's Day afterward.

As long as it's done in fun and doesn't seek to actually worship evil or hurt people (which would be a way to worship evil, imo), I don't see a problem with it.

I like seeing the pumpkins out every year, I'm not sure why...lol

I participate in Halloween, it's one of my favorite holidays in all truthfulness. My kids will be allowed and I think it is fine so long as one remembers it not real and is make believe. And that one does not get caught up in occult practices "in the spirit of the holiday." If one can't distinguish real from make believe, or is prone to get caught up in occult practices, best to stay away.

As to certain costumes, decorations, and other scary items I'm OK with except for such things as devils and demons. These cross a line, IMO. But other then that I'm OK with so long as the proper mindset is kept.

The one thing that must be remembered is that evil is indeed real and the devil and demons do indeed exist. This time of year could serve as an appropriate time to educate our kids about such things, and that this particular day (evening, really) is really intended to honor the faithful departed and not to celebrate cultish practices and ideas.

And don't forget to check the kids goodies. There are a lot of creepy people out there in the world. You just never know. (Besides, it gives you first crack and the real good stuff .)

I enjoyed Halloween when I was a kid. They didn't have those bite-sized candy bars, either. They had regular-sized Snickers and Milkey Ways. I dressed as a cat, a werewolf, and my favorite costume was the saber-toothed tiger. My sister was more creative. She made her own space alien costume using aluminum foil.

Milky ways are great!

I always liked the nestle crunch bars too.

I have mixed feelings on Halloween and wonder whether by participating, we are squandering an opportunity for witness. On the one hand, I remember reading once of an early bishop who was greeted by a member of his flock who marched by the bishop's house in a "fun" procession in honor of a pagan god(ess?). Not something anyone took too seriously, except for the bishop, who admonished the Christian to get out of the line -- not because the Christian believed that the pagan god was real, but because of the message that participation in the procession would send. On the other hand, how far does one take that? Does that mean I can't watch a Harry Potter movie, or even a Disney movie that has ghosts or witches in it? I can't read Hamlet?

As a practical matter I've always gone along with Halloween. I'm not sure I see the distinction between participating as a vampire or as a princess, as long as you know it's pretend and not an excuse for violent, occult or other immoral activities.

alexnbethmom said:

just curious what everybody's thoughts are regarding halloween? we have always done halloween, the kids always dressed up, we always handed out candy - my son is too old for ToT'ing at this point, but my daughter still wants to....

i have never had a problem with this, in my thoughts, we never let the kids dress up as anything scary or yucky, it's always been things like woody from toy story, tinkerbelle, a doctor, red riding hood, scarlet o'hara, spiderman, stuff like that....we never really decorated except for pumpkins, only because they are so much fun to carve.....and in my mind, it's just a day for kids to bug the neighbors for candy and know it's allowed....

what does everybody else think of it?

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For the record, I am trying desperately to find an "Agent P" (aka Perry the Platypus) costume for my 4 year old son.

Now, if you will indulge me, I will fuse together your two recent posts: this one and the one on the AGs.

Growing up in the AG sect, Hallowe'en was strictly verboten. No 'true Christian' could participate in the Devil's holiday. Neither could a 'true Christian' read Stephen King novels, listen to Pink Floyd or go to movies. (Actually, Walther would have agreed with them on the last one...) All of these were said to 'open the doors to the devil.' Even as a young teenager, something about that idea didn't sit right with me. The devil sure seemed to be inordinately powerful in their way of thinking.

At any rate, it was some kind of combination of Lewis' Screwtape Letters (in which the devil is lot more savvy than anything some goofy AG could imagine), Luther's ideas on imputed righteousness and the 'Christus Victor' theory of the Atonement which finally drove all of the fear-based theology of the AGs out of my system. To quote J.B. Phillips' title, their God is too small. (And their devil is too big.)

Does this mean I believe that I can write off any ideas of evil forces in the world? No. I know they're real, and I know that I must be vigilant against the devil who does wander around seeking those whom he may devour. I just think that the devil's tools in the modern age have more to do with money, power, fame, and general hedonism than they do with silly children's costumes.

However, to get more technical and theological, in the case where some person from another sect suggests that 'you can't be a Christian if..." and starts pointing out your child's eeeeeeeevil hallowe'en costume, we as Lutherans (IMHO) ought to consider this a situation of being in statu confessionis.

What does this mean? (Heh!) It means that when someone suggests that our works are not righteous enough, we cling ever more tightly to the cross. Hallowe'en is something we can have difference of opinions over...until someone suggests that one opinion is more righteous than the other. At that point, we cling to the other and claim the Righteousness of Christ's works, not our own.

So, if you're in the local grocery store and some Southern Baptist points to the six pack of Fat Tire in your buggy and suggests that 'true Christians' don't drink alcohol, your DUTY is to go get another six pack.

And if some pietist fundie suggests you're not a 'true Christian' because you took your kids out ToT'ing, it's time to take the kids around the block a second time.

/soap box

Cheers, all!

And Happy Oktoberfest!

So, if you're in the local grocery store and some Southern Baptist points to the six pack of Fat Tire in your buggy and suggests that 'true Christians' don't drink alcohol, your DUTY is to go get another six pack.

And if some pietist fundie suggests you're not a 'true Christian' because you took your kids out ToT'ing, it's time to take the kids around the block a second time.

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LOL, how very typically Lutheran of you to include the... is Fat Tire beer? Same difference anyway!

Yet... "are we to sin all the more that Grace may abound? God Forbid!"

Trick or Treating is in and of itself (IMHO) harmless. However, my complaint has nothing to do with the children. It has to do with what the adults are doing. Thus, if we participate through and with our children, we should be mindful of what we are showing and teaching them. I never forbade my youngest son to participate. However, I stopped many years before he left home.

I really like the idea of a Harvest Festival and All Hallow's Eve celebration. When this festival is well done, it reminds our children of who went before us, who sacrificed for our faith, and those who stood up against persecution for our freedom to worship as we will. Not to mention they're often a lot of fun.

EDIT:
You know... I think it only fair to also mention that my Father died on All Hallow's eve when I was fourteen. He was forty-six. That kind of took the fun out of it for me. I wasn't exposed to it again till my own children came along. My wife loved the holiday, I was conflicted, and not just because of Dad.

Stude, sorry about the loss of your father. I can understand how that would taint the holiday even more.

We like Halloween to a certain extent. Before I got married, our house was the "scary" house, but all within reason. My oldest still goes out and he understands that he has to get dressed up. Last year he was supposed to be a zombie doctor (or an apocalypse doctor), but the joke was that he just looked like a bad malpractice suit. This year I think he's going to be John Lennon...that's just because he is really into the Beatles.

I agree that it's all about intent. This year, the Reformation falls on the same day, so we'll be going to an area-wide reformation service and then to another pastor's neighborhood for the gemeetwhatever and the kids will ToT there with other PKs.

We'll stay back at the house enjoying the food and the beer.