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Halloween. Evil?

BornAgainChristian

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This was taken from http://bible.com

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT....

THE TRADITION OF HALLOWEEN?


"Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes." Song of Solomon 2:15

Foxes sometime in search of food would enter into the grape orchards and devour the grapes and spoil the crop. However, the little foxes were too small to reach the grape bunches so they would chew on the vines and it would kill the whole vine. Instead of the farmer just losing his crop, he would lose his vine which was more disastrous. Spiritually some things we do or allow, that we might think is little or insignificant, can also be disastrous for us.

Some may consider celebrating Halloween as only a little compromise. However, it is the "little foxes" that spoil the vines and this little compromise can open the door to other evils. Many Christians do not realize that certain traditions that are celebrated in the world have evil origins. Just because our society partakes in certain activities does not make them acceptable for Christians. We must look to Christ and His Word to see if the traditions of this world are good or evil.

Mark 7:13: "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."

One very evil tradition is the celebration of Halloween. No Christian should partake in the activities of this holiday, nor should they allow their children to do so. We can discern the evil of this day by taking a look at the festivities that are associated with its celebration. Children are dressed as witches, goblins, ghosts, little devils and fortune tellers. All these are representatives of Satan's kingdom. Games played at carnivals promote fear in children as they are ushered through spook houses and horror rooms. Skeletons, black cats and bats represent death and darkness. No carnival is complete without the gypsy who tells fortunes. Satan has gained man's approval to celebrate his day by simply making it a tradition that seems like a fun day. The opposite is true, however, as more damage and harm are done on this day each year than any other holiday. Children are taught to go door to door chanting "trick or treat." It is unchristian to demand a gift under threat of playing some trick. Police are on the alert for juvenile vandalism and caution parents to be watchful.

Because so many of us have grown up celebrating Halloween, and seemingly did not experience any negative effects, some feel that not celebrating Halloween at all is an extreme measure. However, we would encourage you to pray about this. Is any holiday that glorifies death and darkness (even in fun) a proper thing for a Christian to do since we have been called out of darkness into His marvelous light?

1 Peter 2:9: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light."

Whether we feel that we have been really hurt by celebrating Halloween or not, is only part of the issue. How does God feel to see His people making light of demons and witchcraft? Shouldn't we be thinking about how to honor Him and show our love to Him? Where do our loyalties lie?

Most Satanists celebrate this as their high holy day and even offer human sacrifices to the devil. Until recently, most Christians have not questioned this traditional celebration, but rather have gone along with it by even bringing Halloween parties into the church. The earliest Halloween celebrations were not held by the early church, but the Druids in honor of Samhain, the "lord of the dead", and his demons, whose festival fell on November 1. Halloween actually means "holy or hallowed evening."

According to the Roman calendar in which days began at midnight, the evening of October 31 was the eve before the hallowed day; hence Halloween or All Soul's Eve was kept throughout the ancient pagan world. All Hallows Eve, because it is the day before All Hallows' or All Saints' day, was a holy day in the Roman Catholic Church, Episcopal Church, the Church of England and the Greek Orthodox Church. This festival honors all martyrs, known and unknown, who have died for the church. During the time of Constantine, these two holidays were merged in an attempt to Christianize the heathen. The church could not prevent these heathen practices, so they thought "taming'" them would be the answer. They were, of course, not to worship their gods on the church's "All Saint's day." However, as it is with all compromises, soon the evil overrode the good, and hence we still honor these heathen practices by celebrating Halloween.

Parents have a responsibility not to allow their children to be exposed to these evil celebrations. What might seem to some as innocent children's games is a "little fox" that can open the door to satanic influence and even demon possession in some cases. Children can be tormented with a spirit of fear that can come through this involvement that stays with them throughout their lives. It also introduces children to witchcraft, making it easier for them to become involved in cults and occultic activities. When children are taught it is alright to play with the things of darkness, it does not give them the repulsion and resistance that they need to stand against greater Satanic involvement. When the things of Satan are taken lightly, as games and fun, it sets our children up to accept evil rather than to resist it. This "little fox" is not only spreading evil to children but has been a curse for the church and our nation as well. As Christians, we should spread the word to others about the evil tradition of Halloween.

Ephesians 5:6-12: "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."
 

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In my opinion, Halloween is only evil if you celebrate it that way. If you dress up in costume dont dress as anything evil. Its as simple as that. Have a pumpkin carving contest, roast hot dogs and marshmellow to celebrate it. You dont have to go to haunted houses and fortune tellers.
 
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SteadyRock

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By the way, Halloween used to be All-Saint's Day which was a Christian celebration, but now Satan has tried to take power over it.:(

I personally wouldn't take part as it kind of condones begging and a lot of crime goes on. Because as I said it is now more of Satan's Day than Saint's day.
 
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All4one

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Many Christians do not realize that certain traditions that are celebrated in the world have evil origins.
VERY true. The origin of halloween was in ancient times the druids, who dressed in animal skins and went out at night scaring the people. Trick or treat was taken froma different language in which the druids would either take something from the people or punish them by casting a spell, killing their child, or tormenting the whole family. Out dressing up was derived from their animal skins, our knocking on doors and saying trick or treat was described above, and our going out at night was the same time they did this. I cannot remember exactly but when I studied this subject there was an evil origin to bobbing for apples. It had something to do with shrunken heads I believe. They, as we do today, conduct these matters in darkness which is used within the bible so much to represent sin. It hides the true meaning. To celebrate something is to celebrate its origin regardless of what you make it personally. Had those things not happened many years ago then the holiday would not be here today, so for that reason a person celebrating halloween is celebrating what happened so many years ago.

In my opinion, Halloween is only evil if you celebrate it that way. If you dress up in costume dont dress as anything evil. Its as simple as that. Have a pumpkin carving contest, roast hot dogs and marshmellow to celebrate it. You dont have to go to haunted houses and fortune tellers.
Please sister do not take offense to what I am about to say. This is liking saying, "as long as I go to hell but don't speak to the devil I am not in an evil place." When a person celebrates Christmas regardless of what they have made of the holiday or how you celibrate it there is only one reason that it occurs every year and that is Christs Birth and that is the cause of the celebration. When we get off school for Colombus Day we may never think of Colombus but because of what he did we celebrate it. We should not celebrate what the druids and satan did at that time. It is evil, wicked, demeaning, and spiteful to God. No opinion changes its origins.


In Christs Love,
All4one:clap:
 
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Singing Bush

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All4one said:
No opinion changes its origins.
And yet this does not make the origins anymore relevant. Have you ever said the words "sheesh" or "jeez?" How about "good bye?" Well the origins of the first two words are believed to come from "Jesus". Does this mean everyone saying those two words is taking the Lord's name in vain? It is thought that "good bye" came from "God be with ye." I sure hope you sincerely wished God's blessing on everyone you have said good bye to. I suppose then that, along the lines of the logic you seem to be using, anyone celebrating Easter or Christmas is by necessity praising God and his miraculous work then. Even if they're pagan, nature worshipping druids.

Sure there is the potential for extra mischief and evil-doing on Halloween and because of that I can understand and respect your opinion not to celebrate it in any way, but to make the assertion that anyone celebrating it in any manner is also thus celebrating the acts of a few barbarians hundreds of years ago is, I feel, unsubstantiated and a wee bit silly. I went trick-or-treating many times as a child and have some of my most wonderful family memories from Halloween. I never personally engaged in any vandalisms or evil-glorification nor did any of my family members. I have no doubt that I am closer to my brother, sisters, cousins, and parents as a result of our innocent Halloween fun.

By the way, I am interested. Supposed sometime in the future Halloween became a day where people reflected on the evil, nefarious ways of the druids of oh so long ago and resolved not to repeat such acts. Would it be ok to celebrate Halloween then?

Vaya con Dios.
 
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Tink

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I don't think Halloween in itself is evil. Moreover, the people who celebrate it and HOW they celebrate. After all, October 31st is still a day that the Lord made. I continue to celebrate the harvest on Halloween, and I do so by dressing up. This year, I'm going as a baby doll. I can see how some people may perceive that as evil, but I think it's alright. I tend to follow the Bible, and I don't see any mention of Halloween and it being evil in there. Feel free to correct me if I've overlooked the "don't celebrate Halloween" commandment in the Word.

PS. Christ was born during the time of harvest...do you know of anyone who harvests in December?

Just something to think on.

In Christ,
Tink
 
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shaaz_99

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Just a thought

What about having something in the church that nite...like a celebrating Jesus nite...have a party...invite guys who aren't saved....bring the kids...etc

Then we'd be using the Day for Gods Glory rather than HIm downstairs...
Our Church don't celebrate it at all, but we are using that nite to have a special outreach called a hallelujah party...there will be loads on, Puppets and dance etc..
Another opportunity to fulfill the Great comission...!!

Blessings in Jesus name
 
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All4one

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but to make the assertion that anyone celebrating it in any manner is also thus celebrating the acts of a few barbarians hundreds of years ago is, I feel, unsubstantiated and a wee bit silly.
Silly as it might be I still disagree. We may not be celebrating the direct line of actions in motive but the holiday is there because of these events MANY years ago. If the holiday is there for that reason it is not something to honor. I went tricker treating as a kid as well and I realize how it becomes more violent every year.

Supposed sometime in the future Halloween became a day where people reflected on the evil, nefarious ways of the druids of oh so long ago and resolved not to repeat such acts. Would it be ok to celebrate Halloween then?
The passover was celebrated but not the time of bondage in Egypt! In this case it would be okay to celebrate Halloween as a thanksgiving to God. Is it ever wronge to celebrate anything to God? Yet many people today say "I celebrate the harvest on this day." does it HAVE to be the same day that druids killed people, or the same day that witches kill children every year? You are celebrating with the rest of the people regardless and the very action of halloween was brought about by horrible actions years ago, why even honor this by having "fun" on this day? This is all regardless of motivation.

Feel free to correct me if I've overlooked the "don't celebrate Halloween" commandment in the Word.
Sarcasm is really unwanted here. The druids were not around during this time frame. I mean the time frame in which the bible was written. God said nothing about Mardi Gras either but does it make it right to attend as long as your not celebrating it the way other people are? As long as you are not running around naked and drinking does it make it okay to be around people who are and celebrate? Regardless it seems this holiday is a senseless action in which Christians, who should acquire self-control, should not celebrate. Many of the people I have spoken to about this holiday will also tell their children about santa claus and the easter bunny. More then ever today we cave to peer preasure and what the world may think instead of standing firm on godlike revolution.

"Let's go celebrate a holiday in which we are likely to get egged, vandalized, poisened, or witness evil chants and things... then during the holiday of Christs birth lets dilute it with tales of some man who comes down our chimney and gives all the gifts! Oh, but best of all when Christs ressurection holiday comes around that gave us all ressurection power, lets throw a bunny and eggs in from of the tomb and maybe people will follow those."

We really have to wake up. Common sense has no longer become a virtue. Lets just goooo with the floowwwww. Everything is okay as long as your motive is okay. Knowing the origin and seeing what the holiday is for should sicken anyone! We have had a bitter taste of terror ourselves during 9/11. THE HOLIDAY IS THERE FOR THAT VERY REASON! It should churn our stomachs that such evil takes place... but who cares right? Lets celebrate with the best of em!

I am being completely straight forward about this. I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I speak the truth here.

In Christs Love,
All4one :clap:

Shaaz, what the devil intended for evil God has made good. Using that holiday to bring people in and tell them about God is turning the tides to me. I see nothing wronge with this at all as long as the place does not have haunted houses (which by the way provoke fear and fear is not of God), and does not have all the "spooky" halloween things around. If you are having a church service on that day to bring people in since they are already out I do commend the idea.

;)
 
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All4one said:
Silly as it might be I still disagree. We may not be celebrating ...people today say "I celebrate the harvest on this day." does it HAVE to be the same day that ...regardless of motivation.

Sarcasm is really unwanted here. The druids were not around during this time frame. I mean the time frame in which the bible was written. God said nothing about Mardi Gras either but does it make it right to attend as long as your not celebrating it the way other people are? As long as you are not running around naked and drinking does it make it okay to be around people who are and celebrate? Regardless it seems this holiday is a senseless action in which Christians, who should acquire self-control, should not celebrate. Many of the people I have spoken to about this holiday will also tell their children about santa claus and the easter bunny. ...holiday of Christs birth lets dilute it with tales of some man who comes down our chimney and gives all the gifts! Oh, but best of all when Christs ressurection holiday comes around that gave us all ressurection power, lets throw a bunny and eggs in from of the tomb and maybe people will follow those."

We really have to wake up. Common sense has no longer become a virtue. Lets just ...origin and seeing what the holiday is for should sicken anyone! We have had a bitter taste of terror ourselves during 9/11. THE HOLIDAY IS THERE FOR THAT VERY REASON! It should churn our stomachs that such evil takes place... but who cares right? Lets celebrate with the best of em!

I am being completely straight forward about this. I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I speak the truth here.

In Christs Love,
All4one :clap:
It wasn't sarcasm. I was honestly wanting you to show me Scripture that says I should avoid it. I do not participate in anything evil on Halloween, or any other day. We give out candy, yes. What's wrong with that? We'll also be handing out tracts. I don't see what the problem is. I also celebrate Mardi Gras, if I'm in Louisiana at the time. It's a part of my heritage. I don't drink, gamble, or run around naked. I'd have to lock myself inside the house 24/7 to never be around people who have the wrong attitude, or are celebrating something I don't agree with. I don't think that God would want me to do that. Seems like fear to me, and God isn't the author of fear.
And now telling your kids that there is a Santa Claus is evil too? Is that what you're saying?
What does 9/11 have to do with Halloween?????
It seems that you take things very serious. I'm sorry that you feel all these things are wrong. I won't be posting on this thread anymore because I can't be that worried about the small things. Worry does not equal godliness. You're speaking what you believe is the truth. You can't prove it anymore than I can prove what I'm saying. May the Lord our God continue to bless you, this day and every other day.

In Christ,
Tink

PS. I celebrate God EVERYDAY. And I celebrate the harvest as an alternative to the "evil" that you were talking about.
 
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All4one

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And now telling your kids that there is a Santa Claus is evil too? Is that what you're saying?

YES! ABSOLUTELY! Can I back this? Does "thou shalt not lie" sound familiar?

I can't be that worried about the small things.
Even pebles can build a house. Founding yourself on the small things lays a foundation for the more important things. I would suggest a deep research and not an overlooking of the small things.

You're speaking what you believe is the truth.
I hate these comments, I absolutely despise them. Everyone has their own truth is sooo untrue. I understand that it is only by the grace of God that we are any different and reach such understandings so I am not angry here at any one person or idea but the very thought of satan dispersing Gods people. I only take it personal because I am about my Fathers business. You are all my brothers and sisters and who would not rebuke an idea implied by satan to destroy Christs body and thus His brothers and sisters? Compromising with evil is like telling a half truth- it is fully evil and it is a full lie.

In Christs Love,
All4one :clap:
 
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Singing Bush

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All4one said:
Silly as it might be I still disagree. We may not be celebrating the direct line of actions in motive but the holiday is there because of these events MANY years ago. If the holiday is there for that reason it is not something to honor.
I touched this last time and it lead to my question below so stay tuned...!

All4one said:
I went tricker treating as a kid as well and I realize how it becomes more violent every year.
And I am sure Valentine's Day leads to more premarital sex. Guess that means we cannot celebrate our romantic love for our spouses on that day then. I am sure St. Patrick's day and Labor day both lead to greater abuse of alcohol and activities associated with that, I guess we cannot celebrate our Irish heritage or the advances made by the working classes then anymore either. And don't even get me started on the tomfoolery of April Fool's day or the debauchery that takes place on New Year's Eve. Just because an event may inspire bad things in some people does not mean the event itself is somehow bad else the random Satanist in our midst making evil sacrifices on Christmas or Easter would completely taint the holiday.

All4one said:
(In response to a question I [Singing Bush] posted concerning whether it would be proper or not to celebrate Halloween if it was used to reflect on the evil acts of the druids and resolved not to repeat them.) The passover was celebrated but not the time of bondage in Egypt! In this case it would be okay to celebrate Halloween as a thanksgiving to God. Is it ever wronge to celebrate anything to God?
Oh so the origin of a holiday suddenly no longer matters if the holiday promotes a good that is good enough such as thanksgiving to God. Family bonding and innocent fun simply don't cut it I guess.

All4one said:
We really have to wake up. Common sense has no longer become a virtue.
No disrespect intended, but I think you are using a very superficial form of common sense. You assert that because Halloween almost a millennia ago was celebrated by pagans it is now impossible to celebrate any form of it in any way no matter how much the holiday has evolved, with the new exception of us using it to praise God. You have provided no logical reason for why this has to be so though, simply your assertions. Moreover, you have pointed out that some people still do do bad things on Halloween. Again, you have provided no reason why this somehow means no one can celebrate it in any form. I would understand if this was your own personal decision based on your own personal priorities and values, but you seem to being declaring it as dogma. Perhaps I am misinterpreting you but the unity you want seems to come at the price of conformity to your beliefs.

All4one said:
I am being completely straight forward about this. I'm sorry if I offended anyone but I speak the truth here.

In Christs Love,
All4one :clap:
Of course not brother. And I hope I have not offended you either. I appreciate your zeal, simply believe it is misplaced.

By the way, I notice you did not address my comments regarding the origins of words/phrases and your possible use of those words/phrases. Perhaps you were just busy as it does seem you post a lot, but what are your thoughts on that?
 
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HotRhymez

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I don't think Halloween is really evil, the Bible doesn't say the word Halloween anywhere, It's just a harmless holiday, and people have gone crazy just because they see a few witches and black cats and assume it's evil. That's just my opinion.
 
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Singing Bush

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SlimShadyJB said:
I don't think Halloween is really evil, the Bible doesn't say the word Halloween anywhere,
Just to be nit picky, but just because it is not mentioned in the Bible does not necessarily mean anything. Especially in this circumstance as neither Halloween nor its ancient predecessor existed then. Well... if the latter did it was way too far away from ancient Israel to be known.
 
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All4one

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I guess we cannot celebrate our Irish heritage or the advances made by the working classes then anymore either.

Simply put look at what we are celebrating. I am talking about the derivitive of a holiday here. If you want to celebrate a holiday such as the 4th of July then celebrate it... it was derived from our independace, some people have made it elseware. Halloween on the other hand was derived from evil... It was FOUNDED on evil. That is the difference.

I am sure St. Patrick's day and Labor day both lead to greater abuse of alcohol and activities associated with that, I guess we cannot celebrate our Irish heritage or the advances made by the working classes then anymore either.
I am only addressing Halloween because I know about it and its evil heritage. I know nothing much of other holidays origins. Fill me in if they are moraly unstable. Once again... you say celebrating Irish heritage which is the ORIGIN but that is not true of halloween.

does not mean the event itself is somehow bad else the random Satanist in our midst making evil sacrifices on Christmas or Easter would completely taint the holiday.
Once again very true but Chritmas and Easter were not founded on evil.. I wish you could see this. A few sacrafices and things would not "taint" halloween if it were founded as something good in the first place. IT WAS FOUNDED ON EVIL DEEDS.


Oh so the origin of a holiday suddenly no longer matters if the holiday promotes a good that is good enough such as thanksgiving to God. Family bonding and innocent fun simply don't cut it I guess.
The origin of nothing matters if it is giving thanks to God. Trick or treating and mocking the actions of the druids is not giving thanks to God though. It condones their actions. Even though we may not celebrate it for that reason we still celebrate because long ago they did these things!

Family bonding and innocent fun simply don't cut it I guess.
I am guessing you will mislead children as well to believe in Santa Claus... a lie, and call it innocent fun? Can you not bond as a family and have innocent fun in Christ?


Again, you have provided no reason why this somehow means no one can celebrate it in any form.
My reason for no one celebrating this in the druid like form is simple. We celebrate the holiday because of what they did... we mock their actions. I never said it could not be celebrated as a day for God as every day can be a celebration to God. I said in the matter it is today is wrong. It is the same thing they did... could you please explain to me why people would even wish to mock such horrible actions regardless of how long ago it was? Why do we not celebrate the Oklahoma City Bombing by some kind of relative action? We do not celebrate it because it was horrible, people died and the motive was evil. What if we did small things on that day and had all kinds of fun by mocking the actions of Timothy Mcvae?

I would understand if this was your own personal decision based on your own personal priorities and values, but you seem to being declaring it as dogma. Perhaps I am misinterpreting you but the unity you want seems to come at the price of conformity to your beliefs.
This seems to be the problem today. No one listens to Gods truth because it is just that persons viewpoint- if it is comformity to anything it is conformity to God.

By the way, I notice you did not address my comments regarding the origins of words/phrases and your possible use of those words/phrases. Perhaps you were just busy as it does seem you post a lot, but what are your thoughts on that?
Would you please note the question, I am sorry I must have missed it. Thank you for the interesting debate. I do stand firm on the subject because I believe the way we celebrate today had hindered much of Gods progress. I love the term "what would Jesus do"? What would Jesus do in this circumstance? Would He celebrate a holiday devoted many years ago to killing His children and rejecting His word? I cannot imagine that, regardless of how long ago it was. The crucifixion was thousands of years ago but still has the healing power today... who is to say that this holiday does not?

In Christs Love,
All4one :clap:
 
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All4THALORD

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TinkHeartsJesus said:
It wasn't sarcasm. I was honestly wanting you to show me Scripture that says I should avoid it. I do not participate in anything evil on Halloween, or any other day. We give out candy, yes. What's wrong with that? We'll also be handing out tracts. I don't see what the problem is. I also celebrate Mardi Gras, if I'm in Louisiana at the time. It's a part of my heritage. I don't drink, gamble, or run around naked. I'd have to lock myself inside the house 24/7 to never be around people who have the wrong attitude, or are celebrating something I don't agree with. I don't think that God would want me to do that. Seems like fear to me, and God isn't the author of fear.
And now telling your kids that there is a Santa Claus is evil too? Is that what you're saying?
What does 9/11 have to do with Halloween?????
It seems that you take things very serious. I'm sorry that you feel all these things are wrong. I won't be posting on this thread anymore because I can't be that worried about the small things. Worry does not equal godliness. You're speaking what you believe is the truth. You can't prove it anymore than I can prove what I'm saying. May the Lord our God continue to bless you, this day and every other day.

In Christ,
Tink

PS. I celebrate God EVERYDAY. And I celebrate the harvest as an alternative to the "evil" that you were talking about.
You know Tink, there is something wrong with giving out candy on halloween. Whenever you do this, then you are just encouraging kids to go out there and celebrate halloween. Whenever they are out there and they are recieving all that candy and they see an evil costume, who knows, they might go home and have bad dreams. So you're also saying that you only hand out tracts on certain day? Shouldn't you do that everyday? Does it have to be a special occasion to tell people about the Lord? Don't think so. And it also says in the bible that you shouldn't hang around with people who drink and have wild parties. Those are two of the sins of the flesh. And as you hang around with these people, then you eventually begin to practice what they practice. In other words, you'll be drinking and having bad parties with them. And i totally agree with All4one about not telling your kids about santa claus, he has nothing to do with Christ's birth. Why don't you just tell them the truth? the real story? And i don't think anybody is worried but you. We just want you to know the truth. Sorry, but the truth hurts sometimes.
In Christ's love
All4THALORD
 
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Singing Bush

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All4one said:
Simply put look at what we are celebrating. I am talking about the derivitive of a holiday here. If you want to celebrate a holiday such as the 4th of July then celebrate it... it was derived from our independace, some people have made it elseware. Halloween on the other hand was derived from evil... It was FOUNDED on evil. That is the difference.[...]

I am only addressing Halloween because I know about it and its evil heritage. I know nothing much of other holidays origins. Fill me in if they are moraly unstable. Once again... you say celebrating Irish heritage which is the ORIGIN but that is not true of halloween.[....]

Once again very true but Chritmas and Easter were not founded on evil.. I wish you could see this. A few sacrafices and things would not "taint" halloween if it were founded as something good in the first place. IT WAS FOUNDED ON EVIL DEEDS.
Ok, well then we are agreed on the fact that the current actions of others in regards to how a holiday is celebrated currently is not important as to whether or not it is acceptable for me, individually, to celebrate a holiday? The only reason I brought it up is because while your previous arguments focused on the origins, you also frequently made random comments referring to things like the increasing violence during Halloween as of recent and the sacrifices, poisonings, and murders that sometimes take place during Halloween. They are irrelevant to the origins argument and so seemed out of place.

All4one said:
The origin of nothing matters if it is giving thanks to God.
Alrighty, fantastic. Good to finally flesh out more your standards for what makes a holiday good or bad then now.

All4one said:
Trick or treating and mocking the actions of the druids is not giving thanks to God though. It condones their actions. Even though we may not celebrate it for that reason we still celebrate because long ago they did these things!
Yes the last sentence is true in a historical sense, but I still do not see how that means we are necessarily "condoning" their actions. I do not see the logic behind it.

All4one said:
I am guessing you will mislead children as well to believe in Santa Claus... a lie, and call it innocent fun?
Yep I will. And for the same reason I will work on the Sabbath if it helps my fellow man. Holidays provide a unique opportunity for family bonding that cannot be achieved as well through other activities.

All4one said:
Can you not bond as a family and have innocent fun in Christ?
Oh we can, and bonding in Christ is certainly better than bonding w/o Him. I would not deny that. This does not make innocent fun w/o Christ somehow bad though.

All4one said:
My reason for no one celebrating this in the druid like form is simple. We celebrate the holiday because of what they did... we mock their actions.
Perhaps this is the problem. You seem to be fixated on the druids. I could not care less about the druids. I imagine a large percentage of Halloween-practitioners in the US could not care less about the druids. We are not mocking their actions. Their actions mean completely, absolutely nothing to us. We dress us because that's the tradition on Halloween and it is fun. If it came from angels having an angelic party or druids doing druid-like deeds, it is not important. We go to haunted houses and have scary decorations not because we are celebrating evil or glorifying death, but because it's tradition on Halloween and it's fun to be scared a little sometimes. You keep demanding that the druids and their history be relevant, but have not shown why this must be so. I, my family, and many of my friends on the other hand are evidence that the history of Halloween means nothing to us. If we were ignorant of its history, as I imagine most if not all kids are, would we still be guilty of glorifying evil by celebrating Halloween?

All4one said:
I never said it could not be celebrated as a day for God as every day can be a celebration to God. I said in the matter it is today is wrong. It is the same thing they did... could you please explain to me why people would even wish to mock such horrible actions regardless of how long ago it was?
Again, this may be the motivation of some, but not all, myself included.

All4one said:
Why do we not celebrate the Oklahoma City Bombing by some kind of relative action? We do not celebrate it because it was horrible, people died and the motive was evil. What if we did small things on that day and had all kinds of fun by mocking the actions of Timothy Mcvae?
If the holiday was celebrating their acts then it would of course be innapropriate. If it was a holiday that had its origins in their acts but their acts no longer held any significance to how the holiday was celebrated or to those celebrating it, the acts become irrelevant.

All4one said:
This seems to be the problem today. No one listens to Gods truth because it is just that persons viewpoint- if it is comformity to anything it is conformity to God.
Heh, but how can you claim your view here is God's? You've cited no Bible verses nor, to my knowledge at least, logically connected our discussion to any Bible verses. Your one argument even, that the origins of a holiday are by necessity relevant to a holiday's being "good" or "bad" to celebrate, has not, to me at least, been tenable so far.

All4one said:
Would you please note the question, I am sorry I must have missed it.
Sure brother, don't mind if I do.
Singing Bush said:
Have you ever said the words "sheesh" or "jeez?" How about "good bye?" Well the origins of the first two words are believed to come from "Jesus". Does this mean everyone saying those two words is taking the Lord's name in vain? It is thought that "good bye" came from "God be with ye." I sure hope you sincerely wished God's blessing on everyone you have said good bye to. I suppose then that, along the lines of the logic you seem to be using, anyone celebrating Easter or Christmas is by necessity praising God and his miraculous work then. Even if they're pagan, nature worshipping druids.


All4one said:
Thank you for the interesting debate. I do stand firm on the subject because I believe the way we celebrate today had hindered much of Gods progress. I love the term "what would Jesus do"? What would Jesus do in this circumstance? Would He celebrate a holiday devoted many years ago to killing His children and rejecting His word?
No of course he would not, but nor do we. I do not celebrate a holiday devoted to killing children and rejecting God's word. I celebrate a holiday devoted to dressing up, scaring each other, eating candy, and spending time w/ family.

All4one said:
I cannot imagine that, regardless of how long ago it was. The crucifixion was thousands of years ago but still has the healing power today... who is to say that this holiday does not?
Ahhhh and there in lies the point! Who is to say that this holiday does? It is a judgement call. I understand and respect your judgement. It is definitely in some ways taking the high road. It is not, however, the only right answer and I do not understand your continued insistence that it is in spite of a lack of any defensible reason why.

By the way, I am not sure if you have noticed or not but in the last post or two I've addressed you as "brother". I hope you haven't seen it as sarcastic or been confused by it. We're all brothers in sisters in Christ of course and well I've just been giving it a try the last few days. See how much people are weirded out by it.
 
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All4one

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They are irrelevant to the origins argument and so seemed out of place.
The actions on Halloween are irelevent to its origin? It comes on no surprise to me that on halloween people are afraid of eggings and mischief. I also hear of more live baby sacrafices on halloween then any other holiday. These are facts of the origin... it is no wonder a spirit of evil lingers in the air this day.

Alrighty, fantastic. Good to finally flesh out more your standards for what makes a holiday good or bad then now.
These are not my standards they are Gods, can you honestly tell me that any holiday celebrated to God is wrong? That is what I am saying and you are implying that it is wrong. If Halloween were celebrated to God then good! Holidays originaly came from Holy Days.

Yes the last sentence is true in a historical sense, but I still do not see how that means we are necessarily "condoning" their actions. I do not see the logic behind it.
Like I have said so many times, we mock their actions. Why not mock baby sacrafices but do it in good fun and family time.

Yep I will. And for the same reason I will work on the Sabbath if it helps my fellow man. Holidays provide a unique opportunity for family bonding that cannot be achieved as well through other activities. (this is referring to the question on Santa Claus).
Now this urks me. Santa and the Easter bunny is a lie to throw in front of what Christ has done. While children still have their imagination and faith in the unseen we tell them lies and mislead them. Christ said do not hinder the children from coming to Him and this is exactly that in every way. Why not tell them fully about Christ while they still believe? It is no wonder so many grow up not believing in the unseen. What is the point anyways? I will tell you what it is... because everyone else is doing it.

This does not make innocent fun w/o Christ somehow bad though.
Define innocent fun.

We are not mocking their actions. Their actions mean completely, absolutely nothing to us. We dress us because that's the tradition on Halloween and it is fun.
Door knocking= druid door knocking looking for item
Trick or Treat= what the druids said. If a treat were given they would leave if not then they would get a "trick".
Costumes= Came from animal skins druids dressed in to scare the people.
Pumpkin Carving= The shrunken heads they places at spells
Apple bobbing had a direct meaning also but im not sure what it was.. Yea, I guess this really dont sound like we are mocking their actions.

If the holiday was celebrating their acts then it would of course be innapropriate.
So over time as a holiday is conformed and watered down it become okay? Just not immediately after it happens.. that makes not sense.

You've cited no Bible verses nor, to my knowledge at least, logically connected our discussion to any Bible verses
You have yet to do the same.

I celebrate a holiday devoted to dressing up, scaring each other, eating candy, and spending time w/ family.
Now we are getting somewhere. Fear is not of God. When we like to scare people on this day does that not reveal a spirit in the air? The same one thousands of years ago did the same thing!

the only right answer and I do not understand your continued insistence that it is in spite of a lack of any defensible reason why.
Lack of defense? The defense is the origin and the action today. Would Christ "scare" people, or hand our candy mocking those actions? How about dressing up?

By the way, I am not sure if you have noticed or not but in the last post or two I've addressed you as "brother". I hope you haven't seen it as sarcastic or been confused by it. We're all brothers in sisters in Christ of course and well I've just been giving it a try the last few days. See how much people are weirded out by it.
No problem Bro... we are all brothers and sisters in Christ... I must say that many of my views do crash with todays A-OK attitude and many are unorthadox. I do enjoy a good debate on a subject though, when a person debates it either makes them stronger in what they do believe or changes their mind when they find they have been wrong. I love ya bro, I am not trying to be harsh but straight forward.

In Christs Love,
All4one
 
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Singing Bush

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All4one said:
The actions on Halloween are irelevent to its origin? It comes on no surprise to me that on halloween people are afraid of eggings and mischief. I also hear of more live baby sacrafices on halloween then any other holiday. These are facts of the origin... it is no wonder a spirit of evil lingers in the air this day.
Sorry. I think we've had a miscomunication. I must not have conveyed my point very well. My point was that because what individual people do today during any given holiday has no baring on whether or not that holiday is good or bad, making statements about what occasionally goes on is completely impertinent to your origins argument. Thus, the actions that take place on Halloween are irrelevant in that respect.

All4one said:
These are not my standards they are Gods, can you honestly tell me that any holiday celebrated to God is wrong? That is what I am saying and you are implying that it is wrong.
I have never implied that nor will I ever. If I can across that way, then my apologies, but I do not believe I have said anything that would convey that message.

All4one said:
Like I have said so many times, we mock their actions. Why not mock baby sacrafices but do it in good fun and family time.
WE mock their actions? Maybe YOU do, but I do not. I did not know the druids as a child. I dressed up because that's what you did for Halloween. I carved pumpkins because it was fun. I trick-or-treated because I love candy. Druids shmuids. How can you celebrate something you are not even remotely aware of? Or, as I've said earlier though you haven't addressed it, are nonChristian children celebrating Christ's birth on Christmas because they celebrate Santa Claus? After all, Christmas originated as a celebration of the birth of our Savior.

All4one said:
Now this urks me. Santa and the Easter bunny is a lie to throw in front of what Christ has done. While children still have their imagination and faith in the unseen we tell them lies and mislead them. Christ said do not hinder the children from coming to Him and this is exactly that in every way. Why not tell them fully about Christ while they still believe?
So tell me. Why can't I celebrate both? That's how it was done in my family and I think I had a mighty fine upbringing.

All4one said:
Define innocent fun.
Fun that does not harm, physically, mentally, or spiritually, ourselves or others.

All4one said:
Pumpkin Carving= The shrunken heads they places at spells
Apple bobbing had a direct meaning also but im not sure what it was.. Yea, I guess this really dont sound like we are mocking their actions.
Just because there is an archaic history to an activity does not mean the present partaking in that activity has anything to do any more with that history. It's been theorized that the "Ring Around the Rosie" game that kids play came from the Black Death that swept Europe during the 1300s or so. Does that mean kids are celebrating the spread of pestilence across continents?

All4one said:
So over time as a holiday is conformed and watered down it become okay? Just not immediately after it happens.. that makes not sense.
Time has nothing to do w/ it. As I stated, "If it was a holiday that had its origins in their acts [terrorist acts] but their acts no longer held any significance to how the holiday was celebrated or to those celebrating it, the acts become irrelevant." Thus it can be 1000 years or 1000 days, all that matters is how people celebrate it now in their own hearts and minds.

All4one said:
You have yet to do the same.
Indeed I have not cited any Bible verses nor alluded to any Scriptural concepts. I have also consistently presented all my thoughts as solely my opinion and personal judgment on the issue. YOU are the one claiming your words to be God's own standard. It is thus up to YOU to back up the claim.

All4one said:
Would Christ "scare" people, or hand our candy mocking those actions? How about dressing up?
Heh, I do not know. Possibly he'd hand out candy. Possibly he'd dress up. After all he attended parties and even turned water into wine to prolong the festivities.

Once again you have ignored, hopefully unintentionally, my word origins questions. This debate is getting rather redundant now, though, it seems, so I'll let you have the final say if you wish. If there're any specific questions you'd really like me to answer that's fine just say so, but I think we're both wasting our breath now. Ta ta.
 
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