Hackers

[Chris†opher Paul]

What do you all think about em? To be more accurate, what do you think about people that break into other peoples computers, ie crackers.

In my former life, besides being a drag racer in my Cobra, I was a computer security dude.

Gave that all up though.

 

[GodBoy809]

hackers and stuff is just stupid, i use to want to learn how to hack but that was before i found Christ. So i dont really care for it now.

 

[seebs]

I don't much approve of security stuff. I maintain "the Hacker FAQ", a document about the kinds of people *I* call hackers; people who solve problems in interesting ways.

I probably get an email a week from AOL users who want me to break into hotmail accounts.

I think breaking into systems is pretty much in the same category as violence or property damage; you could have a justification, but you *need* a justification.

Mostly, it's script kiddies, who have no idea what's going on, but have these toolboxes full of programs that work one way or another. Once, one of them managed to exploit a hole in one of our systems, and carefully replaced a system program with a trojan horse.

For another kind of computer.

All it did was fail to run at all. It was amusing.

 

[ZiSunka]

I used to think it was fun, in my younger days, but now I realize it is wrong.

Back then, hackers did it for the fun of solving an electronic puzzle (breaking into a secure system takes good puzzle-solving skills), but now, most do it to make a pain in the roo of themselves, or worse, for illicit purposes.

 

[jon1101]

Most all of the hackers I know don't break into computers at all. The consenus tends to be something like "I'm not going to waste my time and risk going to prison when I can be contructively making money as a hacker." So they sleep through their classes, get A's, and spend their free time in their basement sipping caffeinated beverages and messing with their computers. They're basically glorified nerds.

The destructive hackers that I personally know tend to fit the profile that seebs described: they sit around with their little automated tools, downloading porn and screwing people's computers. What a life, eh?

-jon

 

[seebs]

FWIW, I consider myself to be some sort of "hacker", but I have no interest in nor talent for security stuff. Mostly, I like to make computers do things that surprise people. I write games and stuff, too.

 

[sakamuyo]

Hackers: People who know computers & work to improve on current systems. I like tinkering with the software on my computer, compiling new features into my operating system, etc. This is a good thing.

Crackers: People who know computers & work destructively. I think this is wrong. Defacing someone's website is vandalism. Cracking a system to bring yourself monetary gain, to get free stuff, or to cause someone to suffer loss is theft. There is no question that breaking into a brick & mortar establishment is illegal. I see no difference in the electronic world.

Script Kiddies: People who generally don't really know what they are doing. The follow exploits found by other people. Usually, they are just being mischievious, though the vandalism they unleash can cause great loss to the victim. I think most of these people are lost souls in search of significance. They need God's love. They need a friend. But, without healthy relationships, they turn to unhealthy relationships to fill the void.

 

[Susan]

However, would deleting child pornography, instructions on how to pledge your life to Satan, hentai, or a treatise on how to grow drugs from a website be considered vandalism or simply the removal of something that should not be there in the first place? Would it be wrong to destroy the computer or at least remove the internet access of someone who was using it to lure underage girls into sex? A pervert losing his computer or his access is better IMHO than someone losing her life.

I'm not really a hacker per se (although I have tried to guess passwords-not on here though so don't ban me-and gain access from that.)

My point is that this is not such a clear-cut issue as you might think. While I thoroughly believe "cracking" and destructive hacking for money or glory is wrong, I don't believe that knowing the code or having the capability is wrong, and that sometimes deleting something that someone else posted could, if it were horrible and disgusting enough, be justified.

No flames please.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by Susan
However, would deleting child pornography, instructions on how to pledge your life to Satan, hentai, or a treatise on how to grow drugs from a website be considered vandalism or simply the removal of something that should not be there in the first place? Would it be wrong to destroy the computer or at least remove the internet access of someone who was using it to lure underage girls into sex? A pervert losing his computer or his access is better IMHO than someone losing her life.

I'm not really a hacker per se (although I have tried to guess passwords-not on here though so don't ban me-and gain access from that.)

My point is that this is not such a clear-cut issue as you might think. While I thoroughly believe "cracking" and destructive hacking for money or glory is wrong, I don't believe that knowing the code or having the capability is wrong, and that sometimes deleting something that someone else posted could, if it were horrible and disgusting enough, be justified.

No flames please.

Susan, trying to justify illegal behavior (and that is what hacking someone else's server or computer is) as a moral crusade will not hold up in court. After all, just because you think hentai or satanic web sites, etc, are wrong or evil or whatever, doesn't give you the right to suppress free speech (not matter how "disgusting" you think it is).

Now, illegal material (i.e. child pornography) is another beast entirely, but one that should be left to the proper authorities (that's why we pay taxes, right?).

 

[seebs]

I'd say that removing "information" would be plain old vandalism; free speech and all. I would say the correct way to remove the internet access from a pedophile would be to call the FBI.

Essentially, the authorities are able to do the right thing right now, so I say we let 'em.

I don't think there are many things so disgusting that I would be justified in deleting them, partially simply because, to many people, Christianity is one of those things, so I try to use a consistently fair policy of everyone gets to say what they want.

 

[sakamuyo]

I agree. Combatting one evil with another isn't the way to do things. There are plenty legal, ethical ways to combat evil without turning to improper methods.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by seebs
I don't think there are many things so disgusting that I would be justified in deleting them, partially simply because, to many people, Christianity is one of those things, so I try to use a consistently fair policy of everyone gets to say what they want.

Good point. If you want to live in a society that permits free expression, you'll have to learn to put up with those saying stuff you don't like.

Can't deal with that, then move to China (or whichever oppressive country you prefer).

 

[lithium.]

I think that as a ex hacker that it is a really bad thing to do i used to hack into Unix computers.  I used to do it all the time, but after a while it got really boring so i quit, and alot of people i know that used to hack no longer do mostly cause its boring and the fbi is cracking down really hard on the hackers.  I am glad i quit when i did.  So i think it is really wrong to break into someone elses computer and install software and use there computers to do stuff with.

 

[Susan]

Yeah, you all are right I guess. . .

 

[lithium.]

Originally posted by Susan
Yeah, you all are right I guess. . .

hehe

 

[simchat_torah]

I've done some 'white hat' hacking in my day. Essentially, this is where you are hired as a consultant for a company to find the flaws/holes in their security systems. Now, I work for the University of Illinois as a Network Analyst doing basically the same thing (except inside the firewall ).

 

[Oblivious]

Hackers: People who know computers & work to improve on current systems. I like tinkering with the software on my computer, compiling new features into my operating system, etc. This is a good thing.

Crackers: People who know computers & work destructively. I think this is wrong. Defacing someone's website is vandalism. Cracking a system to bring yourself monetary gain, to get free stuff, or to cause someone to suffer loss is theft. There is no question that breaking into a brick & mortar establishment is illegal. I see no difference in the electronic world.

Script Kiddies: People who generally don't really know what they are doing. The follow exploits found by other people. Usually, they are just being mischievious, though the vandalism they unleash can cause great loss to the victim. I think most of these people are lost souls in search of significance. They need God's love. They need a friend. But, without healthy relationships, they turn to unhealthy relationships to fill the void.

First, thanks for the great post!

I think anyone who is obsessed with hacking into someone else's PC, is a loser and really needs to get a life. Mind your own business.

I won't even get started on those people who feel the need to write viruses that effect millions of people... This is one of the reasons I no longer do IT work.

 

[GW_in_04]

Biggest thing I noticed when I installed my first firewall a few years back is the amount of port scans people do. It is unreal! I have to clear my logs out continually now as there are so many people out there doing that now. I won't connect to the internet anymore without multiple routers/gateways and a firewall in front of my machine.