Guys and Gals

[TheyCallMeDavid]

But what are you basing your premise on what is "hardwired" into a person? There is plenty of actual research done in this area and it doesn't contradict the Bible although it can contradict "traditional" church teachings at times.

Personally, I didn't have a hard time choosing to submit to my husband (okay, it was hard when I thought he was wrong, but I did it anyway)...but that wasn't ever a factor of strength or weakness of either of us but a measure of my commitment to both God and him. However, I am not called to submit to any other man which means no one right now by God's choice. I am called to be under the leadership and guidance of my church leaders ... but not submission to any of them. God gave me a brain and a conscious for a reason. This isn't about "having my own way" but rather being free to follow God as He calls me. My submission is only to God...and that is why Paul said it is better to be single than married for both sexes.

Hardwiring of a Male and Female is something that is self-evident and is discovered thru interaction of any length of time . Its obvious by the way we think, our priorities, the way we analyze , the way we act, emotions, and so on. God made the genders differently so that when one of each come together in a marital Union or in a good Friendship outside of marriage....there becomes the making of a singular UNIT where a blend takes place to compliment the way each is wired. This is Gods ideal...unfortunately , with the Fall of Man in the Garden, this ideal was thrown into a degree of chaos and dis-harmony as was the rest of the physical world.

Actually, we are called to a degree of submission to our Church Leaders since God has put them in charge of our spiritual development ..and that requires some obedience , submission for our own growth and learning, and to honor that which God has ordained (them) . Yes, God gave us a Mind and Will and Intellect to discern, judge, and to apply intuition.... to test right from wrong or the aberrant from the good , or biblical teachings from non biblical ways, etc.....but we serve a God of order and harmony and peace....and its those things that we need to strive for and surround ourselves with in our interactions with people who are in leadership positions , with us being willing subordinates . So...never buck your Church Leaders unless you have very concrete reason for doing so , and...make sure you have some witnesses to the aberrance if in fact that should ever occur --- THAT would be one scenario of many where you put God first and not Man/Woman .

 

[blackribbon]

To determine how sexes are hardwired by observation alone, you would have had to observed a pretty large number of different cultures in order to have a large enough cross-section of empirical evidence determine what was culturally taught and what is innate to each person. It would also require observations throughout various time periods ... not 10 or 20 years but literally 100s of years. If it is "innate", then it was also in Noah and his wife....David and all his wives....and defines people of all faith systems including those not Christian.

Can I ask you how many different areas of the world have you lived in for long enough to have a good understand of each one's cultures? I live in a fairly multicultural area and see that my presumptions of what is "normal" are always being challenged and changed as I get to know people from other parts of the world. I wouldn't even begin to believe that my observations where innate to either sex without putting in the caveat that I often include about the American culture. At this point, I have solid friendships and interactions with people from South African, Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Ukraine, Poland, and Packistan..and a Jew who has close ties to Israel (his father was an Israeli citizen). Because most of these relationships are through nursing school, we talk about cultural differences quite a bit and how society is approach in most African societies is excessively different than in the American culture. This has changed my perception on what is innately male or female.

I challenge you to open your mind a bit more and make less assumptions and stereotypes about people. Your posts often demonstrate a very limited viewpoint that often limits an infinite God. The Bible can stand alone but one verse in isolation is never the whole picture that God gives us. Having a couple of your favorite preachers preach a certain message doesn't mean it is always the correct interpretation either. The Bible is a living document that can be read and understood by anyone ... but at different places in our walk, our understanding might still be limited. A milk Christian will not get as much out of the Bible as a meat Christian...because they are not ready to handle it yet. 1 Cor 3:2. And to ever assume you have figured out the entire meaning is nothing but arrogance. True learning means you realize that the more you learn, the more you actually don't know.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

To determine how sexes are hardwired by observation alone, you would have had to observed a pretty large number of different cultures in order to have a large enough cross-section of empirical evidence determine what was culturally taught and what is innate to each person. It would also require observations throughout various time periods ... not 10 or 20 years but literally 100s of years. If it is "innate", then it was also in Noah and his wife....David and all his wives....and defines people of all faith systems including those not Christian.

Can I ask you how many different areas of the world have you lived in for long enough to have a good understand of each one's cultures? I live in a fairly multicultural area and see that my presumptions of what is "normal" are always being challenged and changed as I get to know people from other parts of the world. I wouldn't even begin to believe that my observations where innate to either sex without putting in the caveat that I often include about the American culture. At this point, I have solid friendships and interactions with people from South African, Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Ukraine, Poland, and Packistan..and a Jew who has close ties to Israel (his father was an Israeli citizen). Because most of these relationships are through nursing school, we talk about cultural differences quite a bit and how society is approach in most African societies is excessively different than in the American culture. This has changed my perception on what is innately male or female.

I challenge you to open your mind a bit more and make less assumptions and stereotypes about people. Your posts often demonstrate a very limited viewpoint that often limits an infinite God. The Bible can stand alone but one verse in isolation is never the whole picture that God gives us. Having a couple of your favorite preachers preach a certain message doesn't mean it is always the correct interpretation either. The Bible is a living document that can be read and understood by anyone ... but at different places in our walk, our understanding might still be limited. A milk Christian will not get as much out of the Bible as a meat Christian...because they are not ready to handle it yet. 1 Cor 3:2. And to ever assume you have figured out the entire meaning is nothing but arrogance. True learning means you realize that the more you learn, the more you actually don't know.

No...you are assuming that One would need to have experience with many women from around the world to know how women, in general, are wired. That is not true. The Bible offers a lot of description on the traits of each gender, plus there are professional Sources who have already done the homework for us on the gender differences , including what every Student in High School learns about it in Health Class or an offered course in Psychology . First hand experience thru daily ongoing interaction is certainly one of the chief ways in which we can learn about such things.

<snip the rest of the guff>

 

[exitstageright]

Go pee on one of those trees before a game when the crowd is there...and tell me how it works out for you. I don't think you can do it without being arrested...so waiting in the line at the women's room would be an easier way to pee. After you successfully pee on that tree at the stadium, then I will agree that your proved your point. I don't think you proved anything except that there were trees at the stadium...not that there were trees available to pee on.

The point I was making was that there are tree at some football stadiums,period. Now do you get the point? When I tell men that we men can use the trees.as an alternative,I always get a laugh. It does not mean that I said that it was ok to pee on the trees. But, you had to come up with something negative. So,why is it that men understand me when I say something, but women cannot understand me?

This is the story of my life. If I did know any better,I may wonder did God really create women as helpmates, or as someone who frustrates?

 

[blackribbon]

No...you are assuming that One would need to have experience with many women from around the world to know how women, in general, are wired. That is not true. The Bible offers a lot of description on the traits of each gender, plus there are professional Sources who have already done the homework for us on the gender differences , including what every Student in High School learns about it in Health Class or an offered course in Psychology . First hand experience thru daily ongoing interaction is certainly one of the chief ways in which we can learn about such things.

<snip the rest of the guff>

And I have taken all those classes in multiple forms on a college level. One of the first things I realized is how simplified the high school versions are. Our high school health classes were taught by the football coaches (nuff said there). In developmental psychology that was one of the great questions: How many of our behaviors are innate and how many are learned or as the result of environmental influences? What is really hardwired into us isn't easily defined.

I would say that the Bible only really says that we are hardwired to rebel and we are innately born with a need for God. I also believe that a person's personality and sexual orientation probably are part of your hard-wiring but can be altered by environment influences. Environment plays a significant role in who people become. Even things like sexual drive aren't so much hard-wired but rather a result of hormonal influences. Something as simple as a hormonal disorder can change many of the things that people tend to believe are "hard wired" into the sexes.

Whether you are a girl or boy is determined by genetic coding. What traits you express are dependent on the expression of the various hormones. A man who has low testosterone does not start to become a female at any point but may start to exhibit traits that we tend to consider to be more "female".

If something is truly innate, it can't be changed by the environment.


And what does "snip the rest of the guff" mean?

 

[blackribbon]

The point I was making was that there are tree at some football stadiums,period. Now do you get the point? When I tell men that we men can use the trees.as an alternative,I always get a laugh. It does not mean that I said that it was ok to pee on the trees. But, you had to come up with something negative. So,why is it that men understand me when I say something, but women cannot understand me?

This is the story of my life. If I did know any better,I may wonder did God really create women as helpmates, or as someone who frustrates?

You compared waiting in long line for the woman's bathroom facilities to a male being able to pee on a tree. I didn't go beyond your original argument.

Your point was to be funny, I get that....but it wasn't a logical comparison and all I did is point that out. You have always said you valued logic and straight thinking...I am giving you that whether you like it or not.

And don't worry, God did NOT design me to be your helpmate so it doesn't matter if you find me frustrating.

Now I will let you go pee on all the trees you want while I wait in line for a potty that almost always comes with a sink to wash my hands afterwards. (Kind of worth the wait in my estimation.)

 

[exitstageright]

You compared waiting in long line for the woman's bathroom facilities to a male being able to pee on a tree. I didn't go beyond your original argument.

Your point was to be funny, I get that....but it wasn't a logical comparison and all I did is point that out. You have always said you valued logic and straight thinking...I am giving you that whether you like it or not.

And don't worry, God did NOT design me to be your helpmate so it doesn't matter if you find me frustrating.

Now I will let you go pee on all the trees you want while I wait in line for a potty that almost always comes with a sink to wash my hands afterwards. (Kind of worth the wait in my estimation.)

Well...., as far as you not being my helpmate is concerned, you are living proof that God is indeed........... merciful!

 

[dayhiker]

I have to agree with you, black, observation has shown over and over again that hormones, etc have a big influence on us and then an other observation show people who despite those hormones etc do something different despite them. I've come to see the working of the physical and spiritual parts of us as so intertwine that there is no definitive explanation of some absolute that can be expressed in a simple formula that explain all humans.
Its been interesting to observe for 40 yrs now how Christians will hear a preacher preach something that they have observed while ministering to someone and then some of those Christians will think that defines everyone motivations. I have found in listening to people that there are as man motivations and reason for doing something as they are people.
So when someone says this is the way people are its clear to me they are living a dogma and not listening to the real experiences people are having.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

The point I was making was that there are tree at some football stadiums,period. Now do you get the point? When I tell men that we men can use the trees.as an alternative,I always get a laugh. It does not mean that I said that it was ok to pee on the trees. But, you had to come up with something negative. So,why is it that men understand me when I say something, but women cannot understand me?

This is the story of my life. If I did know any better,I may wonder did God really create women as helpmates, or as someone who frustrates?

And IMO, that is why you can't find a woman. You have convinced yourself that ALL women do not understand you, so they don't.

 

[exitstageright]

And IMO, that is why you can't find a woman. You have convinced yourself that ALL women do not understand you, so they don't.

I am not saying that all women do not understand me. Besides,I have not met every woman on this planet. Most of the women, who do understand me, and do appreciate me are.......married.

Yes, I can find a woman. But, these women ,who want me ,are not my type. The ones. who want me, want any man who can fog up a spoon, be a PW'd wuss, hen-pecked, and a Sugar Daddy to take them shopping.


Many of the women, that I have met on cruises, got along with me very well. One lady was honest and did not like long distance relationships. She is a Buyer for General Motors. She has her act together. By that ,I mean that she is educated, smart. intelligent, and attractive. She is no Supermodel. As far as I am concerned, she is attractive We enjoy dancing and traveling. She is my type of woman. We enjoyed each other's company. We are both booked on the Halloween Single's Cruise in October. But, she lives in Michigan ,and I live in California.

Also,I no longer feel that,in order for me to get a woman to touch me.that I have to pay her. At the Pujas and Snuggle Parties,women hold and touch me because they want to. And,they do it for........free!!!

 

[dayhiker]

Ya, touch is go nice. I really think most American's are touch starved and don't realize it. I've learned so much about hugs and touch in the last two years. Its changed my perspective quite a bit about the healing power of touch that I thought I understood in my twenties.
So I had to good date last night with a lot of touch but now sex. Also good conversation which I love as well.

 

[hkkyd]

i'd still be a guy.