Guns

[Sketcher]

Women are pretty screwed in your system.

Yessir.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1094232574024579484

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

Demonstration or not, its absurd to counter something you consider absurd with something equally absurd. Yes, X can kill you if they don't like you with their bare hands or they can blow someone's brains out with a gun. Fine. But when it comes down to someone saying there is no difference between a gun or a baseball bat they are obviously living in a wonderful fantasy world where disarming someone with a gun only takes a "Excuse me sir, I am just going to walk away from that gun pointed to my head and continue on with the rest of my life, thank you".

But that's not what anyone is trying to claim. The only thing people are saying is that it’s silly to ban one type of weapon when no one would think about banning another--like another person has said. Regardless of efficiency.

 

[sweetlambofgod]

I see no problem with a cop having a gun but I dont think anyone else should have one

 

[Blackguard_]

I see no problem with a cop having a gun but I dont think anyone else should have one

Why not, seeing as how you seem to accept the idea of self defense?

 

[CroCop]

a) For me, neither because I am not a fast runner.

b) Does not matter if he has you where he wants you.

c) Neither. You need special training to even have half a chance of disarming someone with a knife, and chances are one of you will be dead and the other will be going to the hospital.

What we're trying to say is it's ridiculous to try to ban one kind of murder weapon when most people wouldn't consider banning another.

Fast runner or not, do you have the ability to run when someone has a knife? Sure he might catch you and all that but you have the option of trying. How far can you go with a gun pointed at your head? Not enough time to mess yourself.

If he already has you then you are screwed and at his mercy. The argument doesn't matter then. But if you aren't, which is the key, where does the survival odds favour? Which side? Its obvious.

Special training? How about a kick to the family jewels? If it's a male predetor-hey-you always have that chance. If it's a female, I don't know, slap her? But no, it does take mind and skill but again, you have the option of doing something to react. With a gun pointed at your brain what choice do you have? You don't know if the gunman is a serial killer or a giant softie who wouldn't shoot one of those flying ducks in Duck Hunt.

 

[Blackguard_]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1094232574024579484

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32574024579484

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1094232574024579484http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1094232574024579484http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1094232574024579484

LOL I've had the same thought about horror movies too. Good to see someone made a movie of it.

 

[CroCop]

But that's not what anyone is trying to claim. The only thing people are saying is that it’s silly to ban one type of weapon when no one would think about banning another--like another person has said. Regardless of efficiency.

To which I say whatever. I am not for or against. I see advantages and disadvantages to both side. However, you can't lump a gun with something like a baseball bat and consider them the same, which is what gun lovers are doing. Both are weapons, both can kill, both should not be entirely banned in my opinion, but they aren't, never were and never will be the same.

 

[Blackguard_]

However, you can't lump a gun with something like a baseball bat and consider them the same, which is what gun lovers are doing. Both are weapons, both can kill, both should not be entirely banned in my opinion, but they aren't, never were and never will be the same.

Do you have an examples of this? I always though the differences between guns and sharpt and blunt objects is precisely what made guns so important as self-defense weapons.

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

I think that guns have a use, but not in the houses of people who live in cities. If one is in the country, on a farm etc. and there is game around and/or wolves, bears, mountain lions etc. then by all means go for it - in a safe environment with proper control. Yet in the city, there is no need for guns outside of the law enforcement establishments.

I wouldn't dream of living in the city without protection. I live on a dangerous campus in a dangerous city. There are reports of shootings every week as little as a block away from campus, with armed robberies and muggings occuring right outside my dorm.

A girl was almost kidnapped and dragged away by a guy in a car outside her dorm a month ago. The only thing that saved her was her mace. She's definitly one of the lucky ones.

My grandpa is giving me one of his guns when I move into my apartment. I wouldn't move in without one, in this city. With proper training, anyone can learn how to use a gun to protect themselves in addition to preventing excessive injury to all persons involved. This of course depends on the situation.

 

[Sketcher]

Fast runner or not, do you have the ability to run when someone has a knife? Sure he might catch you and all that but you have the option of trying. How far can you go with a gun pointed at your head? Not enough time to mess yourself.

If the knife is right at your heart, you don't have much time at all. Plus, knives can be thrown.

If he already has you then you are screwed and at his mercy. The argument doesn't matter then. But if you aren't, which is the key, where does the survival odds favour? Which side? Its obvious.

Him, because he has the weapon.

Special training? How about a kick to the family jewels? If it's a male predetor-hey-you always have that chance. If it's a female, I don't know, slap her? But no, it does take mind and skill but again, you have the option of doing something to react. With a gun pointed at your brain what choice do you have? You don't know if the gunman is a serial killer or a giant softie who wouldn't shoot one of those flying ducks in Duck Hunt.

Actually, if you're going to suggest a kick to the groin, your chances are about the same whether it's a gun or a knife pointed at you. And if you're going to play the softie card, the exact same principle applies to someone with a knife. You don't know if he's really a killer or if he's just desperate and/or angry. It's someone with a weapon pointed at you, and whether it's a stabbing weapon or a shooting weapon, you are at their mercy.

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

To which I say whatever. I am not for or against. I see advantages and disadvantages to both side. However, you can't lump a gun with something like a baseball bat and consider them the same, which is what gun lovers are doing. Both are weapons, both can kill, both should not be entirely banned in my opinion, but they aren't, never were and never will be the same.

Again, no one is claiming that. At least, of what I read. People bring this up because based on the reasoning for banning guns, all tools with potentially (accidental) lethal uses should be banned. But you don't see anyone advocating the banning of knives, rubber bands, frying pans, or spatulas. Therefore, that is not a good enough reason for guns to be banned. That's it. Hand-waving it away doesn't make this any less true.

 

[CroCop]

Do you have an examples of this? I always though the differences between guns and sharpt and blunt objects is precisely what made guns so important as self-defense weapons.

Self-defense in countries like Canada or the US where generally civilization is under control, there are no wars on our soil and we haven't had a sniff of real tyranny on our land is overrated and overblown. And generally, what are people self-defensing from? Who can blow out the other person's brains out quicker than the other?

 

[CroCop]

If the knife is right at your heart, you don't have much time at all. Plus, knives can be thrown.


Him, because he has the weapon.
Actually, if you're going to suggest a kick to the groin, your chances are about the same whether it's a gun or a knife pointed at you. And if you're going to play the softie card, the exact same principle applies to someone with a knife. You don't know if he's really a killer or if he's just desperate and/or angry. It's someone with a weapon pointed at you, and whether it's a stabbing weapon or a shooting weapon, you are at their mercy.

If the knife is at your heart already you are at the mercy of the person. A knife can be thrown but the effect of a thrown knife and a speeding bullet are apples and oranges.

How exactly can you kick someone in the groin when he is a good distance from you and has you at gunpoint? What idiot would give you enough space to make a move at him if he's holding a gun? He's going to create distance for himself. Generally, to stab someone you have to be pretty close to the person--making a kick in the groin a better posibility in that situation. I'd rather take my chances with a softie carrying a knife, not a gun, would do? A softie, if really tempted, might even stab you, but he might be so soft that he doesn't make the stab fateful. Let's say a softie looses it and pulls the trigger at your brain-its a done deal.

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

I see no problem with a cop having a gun but I dont think anyone else should have one

A man with a knife knocks down your door. Say you live in an apartment--nowhere to run or hide. There may be time to call the police, but not enough time for them to get there to help you. A fight with your fists is no good. Even if you had a knife twice as long as his, its probably still a lost cause. Perhaps if you could have a one up on him--something to stop him if he chose to advance, before he gets to you?

I no longer think of these as "it could never happen to me!" situations. Two years ago, a girl's window was busted in by 5 men with knives at her campus apartment, a block away from my dorm. She unfortunately had no way of defending herself. She couldn’t have even if she wanted to—weapons of any kind aren’t allowed in campus housing. I am ardently against the government or anyone taking away one of the few tools that would put me at an advantage over a male (or any) attacker.

 

[Blackguard_]

Self-defense in countries like Canada or the US where generally civilization is under control, there are no wars on our soil and we haven't had a sniff of real tyranny on our land is overrated and overblown.

Because there's no crime here, huh?

And generally, what are people self-defensing from? Who can blow out the other person's brains out quicker than the other?

No, from life-threatening attack whatever form that might take. Guns are not just for defense from other people with guns. People with knives and blunt objects can kill you too, especially in groups.

Who are you? A Jackie Chan movie protagonist?

 

[Blackguard_]

How exactly can you kick someone in the groin when he is a good distance from you and has you at gunpoint? What idiot would give you enough space to make a move at him if he's holding a gun? He's going to create distance for himself. Generally, to stab someone you have to be pretty close to the person--making a kick in the groin a better posibility in that situation. I'd rather take my chances with a softie carrying a knife, not a gun, would do? A softie, if really tempted, might even stab you, but he might be so soft that he doesn't make the stab fateful. Let's say a softie looses it and pulls the trigger at your brain-its a done deal.

Where do you get the idea knife and blunt object-weilders only attack alone? What good does it do to kick someone if the groin if you are surrounded?

Both sides of this debate need to appreciate that sometimes, you are simply screwed and there is not always some way out. If I get the drop on you, how much does it matter if I use a blade, blunt object, or gun? You'll probably be mortally wounded before you can respond to any.


And here's something a couple of you might like...

 

[sweetlambofgod]

Why not, seeing as how you seem to accept the idea of self defense?

alot of people use them unresponsibly

 

[Crusading_Ostrich]

Because nobody ever gets held up or their homes broken into in the city, right?

For me, I try to balance that with less gun proliferation on the streets and drive by shootings and what not. Yes it is perhaps a drawback...yet, at least where I live, I don't hear of many people breaking into houses murdering the people of the house and leaving.

I wouldn't dream of living in the city without protection. I live on a dangerous campus in a dangerous city. There are reports of shootings every week as little as a block away from campus, with armed robberies and muggings occuring right outside my dorm.

What is the police presence in this city then? Any campus security? Sounds like there is no law and order where you are...possibly due to gun proliferation???

 

[Manda_24]

For me, I try to balance that with less gun proliferation on the streets and drive by shootings and what not. Yes it is perhaps a drawback...yet, at least where I live, I don't hear of many people breaking into houses murdering the people of the house and leaving.

If you take guns away the people who want to do harm with them will still find a way to get them. Just like it is with drugs, there are all sorts of punishments for having drugs and they are illegal yet people still have them and sell them. It's not going to be any different if guns were made illegal.

What is the police presence in this city then? Any campus security? Sounds like there is no law and order where you are...possibly due to gun proliferation???

The police can't be everywhere at one time, there are only so many of them. If something big happens in one area all the way across town it would be hard to get to a place on the other side of town as soon as someone calls. The police can't be there the instant someone calls.

 

[Blackguard_]

alot of people use them unresponsibly

a lot of people use lots of things unresponsibly. And no, guns are not a special case because of their deadliness, bad driving and eating habits kill many more people in the USA than guns, accidentally or not.

I just fail to see how that some people will abuse something means nobody should have it.