Guns

[The Princess Bride]

I come from a culture that is very 'anti' gun. As a result, my opinions have been formed along the same vein.

I do not understand the part of American culture that allows the right to bear arms. I do not agree with it, and I do not see a logical rationale for it, sorry to say.

I do not see this being a 'Christian' issue at all - it's just something I personally disagree with. Again, due to my cultural upbringing, I find the mentality in America with regards to guns incomprehensible.

But that's me...

Sasch

From the opposite side of the fence, I could say the same thing.

I do not understand why so many people are against the right to bear arms.

 

[VictoriasImage77]

I am pleasantly surprised at the number of people who posted on this side of the debate. I thought I was alone over here.

I personally think that crime would take an interesting turn if more people were armed....who would rob a bank with armed tellers and any number of armed citizens inside? Who would carjack you? And rape? It would be russian rulet for the criminal.

The idiots and the criminals are always going to have guns, no matter what laws or regulations are made anywhere. They tried prohibition too and bootlegging got worse.

Plus, it's the law-abiding citizens that get screwed by the gun laws. Criminals are going to have them and you won't....hmmm....not a good combination.

Tell you what, law or no law, someone threatens myself or a loved one and my .45 is coming out.

 

[Bun-Bun]

The one thing that sucks about my .45 is the lack of ammo capacity compared to my .40.

 

[The Princess Bride]

The idiots and the criminals are always going to have guns, no matter what laws or regulations are made anywhere. They tried prohibition too and bootlegging got worse.

Plus, it's the law-abiding citizens that get screwed by the gun laws. Criminals are going to have them and you won't....hmmm....not a good combination.

That's what I've been saying all along!

The one thing that sucks about my .45 is the lack of ammo capacity compared to my .40.

You sound like my BF's brother!

 

[Bun-Bun]

You sound like my BF's brother!

16 rounds = more suppressive fire

 

[The Princess Bride]

16 rounds = more suppressive fire

Yep...mostly definately sound alike..and here I though Phil was one-of-a-kind too..

 

[Bun-Bun]

Yep...mostly definately sound alike..and here I though Phil was one-of-a-kind too..

There's nothing wrong with a lot of suppressive fire.

 

[kopilo]

The British were oppressors here, and one of the many things they forbade was certain kinds of guns, so that the people could not rise up against them. The Bill of Rights and the whole Constitution for that matter was our way of saying "never again" to a government oppressing its people. Part of that is allowing the people to keep and bear arms.

But of course current (native) military power is much stronger then civilians with guns.

 

[Tuffguy]

It seems that Americans are taught from a young age not to trust other human beings. you must arm yourselves! otherwise the bad people will come and get you!

I'm convinced that even the pro gun groups know that the widespread ownership of guns by civilians is causing much death and grief, but they see the price against society and humanity as being an acceptable price for their own comfort and security. A handgun (civilian use) is the ultimate security blanket. They are for the insecure.


Here are the facts........


"A few months ago the the Australian Bureau of Statistics revealed that
the total number of gun deaths in Australia for year 2003, was 290.
This figure shows that there has been a great reduction in yearly gun
deaths since governments started to introduce stricter gun laws a
decade and a half ago.
The total gun death figure of 290 compares most favourably with the
figures of the 1970's and 1980's when 700 was a typical approx. figure.
Thus we are witnessing the fact that because of the steady increase in
gun controls over 400 fewer Australian die from gun wounds each year
compared with two decades ago. "

"

• By Category:
• Accident 40
• Suicide 193
• Homicide 54
• Legal etc. 3 "

Australia has a population of about 20 million so about 1 in 69,000 got killed in 2003 by a gun. 54 people got killed by the 'bad people' which is one in 1 in 370,000. now lets take a look at 'the land of the free'


"FACT:In 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S:

• 16,907 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
• 11,920 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
• 730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths),
• 347 from legal intervention and 232 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).

-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2006"​

there's what, 290million in america? something like that. 290,000,000 devided by 30,136 - about 1 in 9,600 americans got killed by a gun (i'm actually surprised how low that is, i thought it would be higher) 11,920 got shot by the 'bad guys' which is one in about 24,500 get killed by a 'bad guy'.

you're about FIFTEEN TIMES more likely to get shot by the bad people living in America than you are in Australia. why?

some more fun facts..........


FACT: [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:</B>[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

• 373 people in Germany
• 151 people in Canada
• 57 people in Australia
• 19 people in Japan
• 54 people in England and Wales, and
• 11,789 people in the United States

(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence[/FONT][/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]FACT: [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]FACT: Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War. In 2003, the total number of people killed by guns in the United States was 30,136. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]- Based on data from CDC National Center for Health Statistics WISQARS online data collection system, 2006.[/FONT][/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]FACT: [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present. [/SIZE][/FONT]

-Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)​

[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]

FACT: There was a surge of violent gun crime when Australia started banning handguns.

FACT: The looser and more available handguns are to our population, the LESS crime we have. I consider crime to be a criminal attacking a innocent citizen. If drug dealers want to keep killing each other in the cities (which is where almost all the gun crime is), i could really care less.

FACT: People that copy and paste huge articles, never read or understand them.

FACT: Suicides are a TON of supposed 'gun deaths". Sure they killed themselves with a gun, but only cause they where around. You think they wouldn't find another way? Pills and vodka is pretty easy too.

Are those figures even per capita? Total volumes of deaths mean NOTHING!!!!!

Also, where is the separation in the homicides for justified killings? It is only split up by suicide and homicide!! Thats really screwed up.

Where is the statistic about how many times a persons life was saved by simply drawing a weapon by police or another person?

Americans and people in general SHOULD be taught not to trust others. Every Christian should know that we are born into sin.

 

[Bun-Bun]

But of course current (native) military power is much stronger then civilians with guns.

Really?

Look at Iraq then.

 

[kopilo]

Really?

Look at Iraq then.

First you have to answer who is the native military power in Iraq. Before the war on Iraq, Saddam Hussein was in power, only external military force (i.e. America) could change that.

I was specifically talking about America soil and American military with the previous post.

 

[christianmomma]

I am pleasantly surprised at the number of people who posted on this side of the debate. I thought I was alone over here.

I personally think that crime would take an interesting turn if more people were armed....who would rob a bank with armed tellers and any number of armed citizens inside? Who would carjack you? And rape? It would be russian rulet for the criminal.

The idiots and the criminals are always going to have guns, no matter what laws or regulations are made anywhere. They tried prohibition too and bootlegging got worse.

Plus, it's the law-abiding citizens that get screwed by the gun laws. Criminals are going to have them and you won't....hmmm....not a good combination.

Tell you what, law or no law, someone threatens myself or a loved one and my .45 is coming out.

wish i could rep ya for that one

 

[Bun-Bun]

First you have to answer who is the native military power in Iraq. Before the war on Iraq, Saddam Hussein was in power, only external military force (i.e. America) could change that.

I was specifically talking about America soil and American military with the previous post.

That depends on how you define strength.

 

[kopilo]

That depends on how you define strength.

Dictonary.com

Military capability in terms of personnel and materiel: an army of fearsome strength.

Bascially the ability to win wartime objectives.

 

[Bun-Bun]

Dictonary.com

Bascially the ability to win wartime objectives.

You seem to have misunderstood my point.

How is the army going to win if they don't know how to fight?

 

[docholiday]

If i could stand the weight all day i would just walk around in full gear with my m4 and 92 and all the ammo i could carry .. like you said nothing wrong with suppressive fire

 

[christianmomma]

If i could stand the weight all day i would just walk around in full gear with my m4 and 92 and all the ammo i could carry .. like you said nothing wrong with suppressive fire

That's my hubby ^ ^ ^

 

[Bun-Bun]

If i could stand the weight all day i would just walk around in full gear with my m4 and 92 and all the ammo i could carry .. like you said nothing wrong with suppressive fire

What's your MOS?

 

[tigercub]

Ok so you own a gun to protect your family, so I give you this scenario; It's the middle of the night, your family is asleep, you hear the window slide open and someone creep in downstairs, so you grab yout gun and rush down. The person emits a scream upon seeing you, which startles you, thus encouraging you to fire your weapon, the trigger of which your finger was resting on. Then you realise it was your 17 year old daughter sneaking in after curfew, and you've just shot her in the chest.

How can this be avoided you ask? Get crimsafe screens, bars on the windows, watchdogs and a security system. That way no one needs to die.

Another point, how can you be sure that people who get guns aren't sociopaths or otherwise mentally unhinged?

FACT: There was a surge of violent gun crime when Australia started banning handguns.

Surge in violence in Australia? Hmm...now see I live in Australia and I have heard no one blaming any violence on the fact we cannot run around with guns. Maybe for a little while way back when it happened, but not now. The recent riots here were violent enough, with guns those lunatics would have caused way more damage .

Let's look at which country has the most school shootings, for starters...

 

[Tuffguy]

.

Let's look at which country has the most school shootings, for starters...

So guns caused school shootings? That is what you are concluding.

Do cars cause accidents?