Grounds for divorce

[seebs]

But anyways, here I am today not sure if I can divorce without sinning on my part, legally I know I can take him to the cleaners, as I have seen in the past I know I can divorce him, but since God has come into my life all these questions I have been having keep going through my mind.

This is a difficult situation. From everything you've said, I am inclined to think that it may be about time to move on... But then, it's not clear where you'd go. It may be that remaining in this situation is tolerable, if not particularly rewarding.

I dont believe I am bad for wanting a divorce for all the terrible things he has done and said, but I feel awful for the things I think about him, not because of what he did to me, but because I feel stuck. Yea I was one of those people that sat there and said man if he would just cheat on me things would be simpler. But then I thought about it, and was I any better holding on for almost a year in hopes of that? I dont think I was.

*hugs*

You have had insights into the nature of sin and accountability that many people will never have. Don't let it get you down too much. Remember, God loves you.

Now I just hold on because I felt at least if he divorced me then I would be completly innocent of any wrong doing, I mean I cant control him divorcing me, and the only reason he said he would is so he could go have sex. So back to the original post. If I am sitting here today wondering if I have biblical grounds for divorce. I know I do according to the law of the land which is inspired by the bible.

I don't think the law of the land on marriage bears any real resemblance to the Bible.

Here is what I think I see. I think that, while you think divorce might be the best thing you could do, it's not entirely fair to say that you "want to" divorce. You don't have some rosy vision of a divorced future where everything smells better and is brightly colored and you're laughing and carefree; you just think maybe you can end the pain that way.

If we are being pushed to believe that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, then anything else including abuse would have anyone asking do I have grounds and therefore not being able to justify a divorce because we are asking about it.

Even fornication does not automatically make it "right" to divorce.

Honestly, I don't think we can help all that much with this decision. I think your husband's treatment of you is horrible. On the other hand, I don't know; maybe it's livable, and just "not good", and you could stick it out. Or maybe it's pretty bad and you need to get out to save yourself.

It's made dramatically more complicated by the involvement of kids. Divorce is rarely good for kids; even a bad marriage can be better for them than a divorce. Can. Not always Is.

And again I ask, what makes a person a non believer? I mean doesnt a mans/womans actions in life make them a believer or non believer? Can you tell me that a person could act so horribly in life and claim to be a believer, and turn around and live a life of abuse, use of drugs, porn etc?

Well, keep in mind, "is a non-believer" isn't a reason to get a divorce; it's a reason to let the other party get a divorce if they want to.

But no; a believer is one who believes. If your husband's actions do not live up to what we would hope to see in a believer, then perhaps we should be especially glad that he is seeking Christ, because he may need a little help getting his life together.

But once again, back to the key point: You don't have to get this right. We are small and precious, and God will not throw us out just because we don't always do the best thing. Remember first and foremost that you are loved more than human language can express.

 

[seebs]

I have another question here I am quite aware and understand I must leave/divorce my husband for the way he has acted. I have not sinned in that sense. Now how does one justify a remarriage? I mean isnt that where the sin comes in, it is not the divorce one is free to divorce, but all those people that teach one must remain single? Is there anything you guys can give me on that one?

I don't know. I am a second husband. Some people would consider my marriage invalid. I don't.

God said "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." If you are shivering and alone in the cold, and someone brings you warmth and comfort, God will not begrudge you that comfort.

 

[Grishnak]

I have another question here I am quite aware and understand I must leave/divorce my husband for the way he has acted. I have not sinned in that sense. Now how does one justify a remarriage? I mean isnt that where the sin comes in, it is not the divorce one is free to divorce, but all those people that teach one must remain single? Is there anything you guys can give me on that one?

I think Paul said it best......

Are you bound to a wife? Don't seek to be freed.
Are you free from a wife? Don't seek a wife.
But if you marry, you have not sinned.
(1 Corinthians 7:27-28 HNV)

and

1Co 7:8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows, it is good for them if they remain even as I am.
1Co 7:9 But if they don't have self-control, let them marry. For it's better to marry than to burn.

Once lawfully divorced you are ''unmarried''.

 

[babyangel]

[/QUOTE]It's made dramatically more complicated by the involvement of kids. Divorce is rarely good for kids; even a bad marriage can be better for them than a divorce. Can. Not always Is.[/QUOTE]

My kids are incredible. The year with only fighting was really hard on them. Although they have questions they are doing well and they were always my first priority when it came to getting my husband to leave. He was never home much prior to leaving I basically raised them, so really they dont even ask about him, it is when they come home from seeing him that my oldest is upset because he says things like mommy doesnt love me that is why I am not there, I cant sleep over because mommy wont ask me to, I threw my wedding ring in the garbage etc. He uses them terribly to get to me, it is this kind of manipulative behavior that just upsets me more than anything, he should be protecting his children but he is emotionally abusing them as he has me for many years. Even though he did so many horrible things, some of which they saw, I never said anything cruel like that to them, I try to keep things as positive as I can.

 

[babyangel]

I don't know. I am a second husband. Some people would consider my marriage invalid. I don't.

God said "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." If you are shivering and alone in the cold, and someone brings you warmth and comfort, God will not begrudge you that comfort.

Thank you! I feel this way also.

 

[babyangel]

I think Paul said it best......

Once lawfully divorced you are ''unmarried''.

Thank you also! I always felt no matter the reason for divorce, if you are divorced you are unmarried. It is impossible to be married to a person you are divorced from. You are therefore unmarried. And if you remarry you have not sinned.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I think there still lies an issue of interpretation of ''must'' and ''may'' with the individual tho.

In my previous marriage there were many, christians and non, who were telling me I was crazy and i needed to divorce before she even went so far as to try to kill me for the death benefits or something.

In thier minds, seeing what she put me through, they would have said I ''must'' divorce, if only for my safety.
In my opinion at that point, only adultery was sufficient for divorce and in my irrational state of mind, I was willing to die before divorcing over anything less than adultery.

When some young women get to a point where they would ask ''may I divorce'' some of us might be saying ''yeah, you MUST and should have ten years before the beatings started".

That's an interesting perspective, Grish. You're right. Other people often give advice in forceful terms like this.

ISTM, what one person can tolerate is not necessarily the same as what another can handle. So we need to be VERY careful about ever making that judgment for someone else.

I think in a lot of cases telling someone they need to divorce when the person still wants to hang on to the marriage may simply be laziness or feeling unable to help. There are many things a Christian community could do to prevent abuse, for example, if we were only willing to give up our privacy, make ourselves slightly vulnerable to protect the very vulnerable, and put a lot of effort and creativity into it.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that a person who gives advice like that may bear a lot of responsibility for the divorce.

 

[Grishnak]

In fact, I would go so far as to say that a person who gives advice like that may bear a lot of responsibility for the divorce.

This sword cuts both ways.

Those who advice, nay insist, that a woman stay with, or return to, her husband who has abused her, those people ought to bear the responsibility and be held accountable for their advice.

That is the problem with this christian community.
We have those in here who are so callous and heartless, those who DONT know the meaning of ''I desired mercy and not sacrifce", who will insist that this young woman return to this monster "because Paul said so", when Paul wasnt discussing an issue of abuse with the Corinthians, but talking to those who were agian frivolously putting aside their spouses.

Paul said we are called to live in peace.
Abused women dont live in peace.

 

[churl]

Abused women dont live in peace.

AMEN!! My point is just reinforced in this post - thank you!
Abused woman are NEVER at peace! The words, the abuse,
the trama, the effect etc last a life time. Getting the abuser
out of the house is the only answer. Moving on to better yourself
and your children is what "living" again is all about!

 

[ChristyP4Christ]

Beleive it or not I agree with Seebs

I was married to my first husband for 17 years, we had four great children. One morning out of the clear blue, he walked out. He had been fooling around with a girls who was only five years older then our oldest daughter. I had no clue. I had placed so much trust in him I was not looking for signs.

I refused the divorce and asked for counsling, but he refused to go, it took him two years to get a judge to sign the divorce papers, because I would not sign them.

I was alone with my children for 2 years and said I would never remarry, but I guess God had other plains. I have now been remarried to a awesome Christian man for three years.

This was all God, He took what satan meant for bad and made something beautiful out of it.

I can not put all the blame on my ex though, we were both 16 when we married, I was saved he was not and still is not, I was at the time of our marriage a very young Christian and we were both very young and were more friends then husband wife. Even though it crushed me when he walked out at the same time I knew that I was part to blame. Why else would he stray?

All I know is in the mist of all the hurt and pain, God was there for me.

 

[Grishnak]

Wondeful post sis

I just hope and pray that we all keep in mind that our circumstances are rarely the same.

You seem to have done what you could to save your marriage.

With others though, the beatings wont permit them to even attempt to save it.
Are they less loved by God and now required to live without that helpmeet that God has siad its not good for man to live without over a woman beaters actions?

Im very happy that God helped you find someone else.
Lets all not deny anyone else the love they burn for over a mistake in the past that was beyond their control

Beleive it or not I agree with Seebs

I was married to my first husband for 17 years, we had four great children. One morning out of the clear blue, he walked out. He had been fooling around with a girls who was only five years older then our oldest daughter. I had no clue. I had placed so much trust in him I was not looking for signs.

I refused the divorce and asked for counsling, but he refused to go, it took him two years to get a judge to sign the divorce papers, because I would not sign them.

I was alone with my children for 2 years and said I would never remarry, but I guess God had other plains. I have now been remarried to a awesome Christian man for three years.

This was all God, He took what satan meant for bad and made something beautiful out of it.

I can not put all the blame on my ex though, we were both 16 when we married, I was saved he was not and still is not, I was at the time of our marriage a very young Christian and we were both very young and were more friends then husband wife. Even though it crushed me when he walked out at the same time I knew that I was part to blame. Why else would he stray?

All I know is in the mist of all the hurt and pain, God was there for me.

 

[ChristyP4Christ]

I do not think God ever means for a man or a women to be beat. My real dad beat my mother everyday of their married life. She would not leave because she thought she was bound to him. that and she was not sure where she had to go.

In the long run, he ended up putting her on the streets where she was hooking for him money and we children ended up in a childrens home. It was there I found the Lord.

God was faitful and just to forgive her of the sins that my dad made her do. She did after 10 years find the nerve to leave him, but she is now married to a rich man who drinks and beats her. It is like a never ending cycle.

I have tried to tell her many times that God does not want her to live this way, but she says that she is thankful that she is not on the streets and that this man takes care of her, and that he does not hit her near as much as my dad did, only when he is drunk. The proble is I have never seen him sober. Well, except Sunday mornings at church.

It is like she feels that this is as good as it gets, and she is better off then she was. I really don't understand. My husband and I moved across the street from them in Sept and she says things are better since then, because her husband is afraid to miss treat her with us around, He says he is a Christian, he goes to our chuch and is involoved, sometimes this just sickens me, because no one knows what takes place once they are at home.

All I know is I have to pray for them and count on God to help, because if I did it my way, my mothers husband would have a skillit up side the head.

 

[seebs]

Excellent testimony.

A lot of people might think you were crazy to refuse to sign the papers, but I think you did a good thing; you made it clear that you were serious. He may yet learn from your example.

 

[Southern Cross]

Just wanted to say this post is very well presented, with very balanced viewpoints. Thanks for posting it, Seebs.

 

[Risen Tree]

God said "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." If you are shivering and alone in the cold, and someone brings you warmth and comfort, God will not begrudge you that comfort.

Hosea 6:6. My favorite verse in the Bible.

 

[Crazy Liz]

This sword cuts both ways.

Those who advice, nay insist, that a woman stay with, or return to, her husband who has abused her, those people ought to bear the responsibility and be held accountable for their advice.

I agree. We Christians have much more responsibility to/for each other than most people in our modern society want to assume. When a brother or sister comes for help, and all we give is advice, we may bear responsibility not only for the advice, but for failure to give the help we could.

[bible]james 2:15-16[/bible]

 

[seebs]

There was a thread in GA on whether abuse justified divorce, and someone told the story of a husband who threw chairs at his wife. And she explained that this was ongoing, and her friend was considering leaving, but had nowhere to go.

How many people, on this Christian BBS, do you think wrote to ask where this friend lived, to see whether they were close enough to help?

 

[Chartreuse]

Just a thought -- and this isn't meant as an attack, though I might not phrase it well, so please be patient with me:

Isn't it kind of arrogant to expect oneself to get through a tough, complicated situation without sinning? We're only human. Sometimes the best thing you can do is pick which mistake you're going to make, and make it. Repentance doesn't mean you've now thought of how you should've done it differently; you don't have to have a better solution to repent of your errors.

 

[Risen Tree]

There was a thread in GA on whether abuse justified divorce, and someone told the story of a husband who threw chairs at his wife. And she explained that this was ongoing, and her friend was considering leaving, but had nowhere to go.

How many people, on this Christian BBS, do you think wrote to ask where this friend lived, to see whether they were close enough to help?

I'm guessing zero. Or maybe one.

 

[Grishnak]

I agree. We Christians have much more responsibility to/for each other than most people in our modern society want to assume. When a brother or sister comes for help, and all we give is advice, we may bear responsibility not only for the advice, but for failure to give the help we could.

James 2:15-1615 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

AMEN !

One church I used to attend actually was offended when some old homeless guy came in and sat down in a rear pew.
I didnt go that night because I was getting quite disheartened with their lack of concern for having a childrens ministry, but those that went told me that some there were worried this guy was going to stink up the pew.

Its a sad state of affairs when a group of christians is more concerned about some worthless piece of wood instead of a poor homeless soul that needs Christ and food.

Needless to say that little pentecostal church crashed and burned very quickly.