gravitational waves

[sparow]

Gravity is something that I have always been interested in and curious about and when I heard gravity waves had been detected I was amazed; it wasn't unexpected, gravity waves was to be the next big discovery after the Higgs Boson; but they were expected to come from THE big bang as opposed to A big bang.

The article that I have read specifies that what was detected was ripples in the space/time continuum which mystifies me. I'll explain my understanding and someone may be able to tell me where I went wrong.

When I went to school the Ether theory was still taught and this provided a medium for waves to travel through. When the Ether idea was discarded what was it replaced by?

Einstein's space/time continuum is a geometry in which the universe and everything that happens in it can be plotted; it is not a medium that can ripple.

I expect that the ripples detected were detected using radio telescopes detecting ripples in a very noisy electro magnetic spectrum.

In order to detect the ripples a huge breakthrough in technology was required; does anyone know about that?

 

[SkyWriting]

Gravity is something that I have always been interested in and curious about and when I heard gravity waves had been detected I was amazed; it wasn't unexpected, gravity waves was to be the next big discovery after the Higgs Boson; but they were expected to come from THE big bang as opposed to A big bang.

The article that I have read specifies that what was detected was ripples in the space/time continuum which mystifies me. I'll explain my understanding and someone may be able to tell me where I went wrong.

When I went to school the Ether theory was still taught and this provided a medium for waves to travel through. When the Ether idea was discarded what was it replaced by?

Einstein's space/time continuum is a geometry in which the universe and everything that happens in it can be plotted; it is not a medium that can ripple.

I expect that the ripples detected were detected using radio telescopes detecting ripples in a very noisy electro magnetic spectrum.

In order to detect the ripples a huge breakthrough in technology was required; does anyone know about that?

I can't think of anything that doesn't involve waves, and I'm stunned anyone was surprised.

 

[Moral Orel]

I don't know a ton either, but I know some of the basics, though I may explain them poorly, so bear with me.

When I went to school the Ether theory was still taught and this provided a medium for waves to travel through. When the Ether idea was discarded what was it replaced by?

There is no medium for light to travel through because it isn't really a wave. They're particles that travel can through a vacuum. It sometimes acts like a wave, which is the weird part, but light isn't a wave.

I expect that the ripples detected were detected using radio telescopes detecting ripples in a very noisy electro magnetic spectrum.

There were two facilities on separate parts of the planet that bounced a laser back and forth across a big distance. They detected the ripple when the laser travelled a different distance inside the facilities (at different times, which is how they measured the speed of the wave). The facilities were also very far apart so that they could rule out interference from other sources.

Einstein's space/time continuum is a geometry in which the universe and everything that happens in it can be plotted; it is not a medium that can ripple.

Actually, Einstein showed that gravity is the effect of a mass bending space itself. He showed that time is part of that "fabric" thus "spacetime" was born. Imagine a bowling ball sitting on a stretched out piece of rubber. The bowling ball sinks, bending the rubber. If you roll a ball around that curve it rolls around the bowling ball. That's spacetime bending. It's more complicated bending three dimensional space, as the metaphor uses a rubber "plane" (therefore only 2 dimensions) and that's part of why objects rotate around other objects semi-indefinitely.

 

[Eudaimonist]

 

[Belk]

Shouldn't this be in the science forum? Or is there an ethical consideration to gravity?

 

[Dave-W]

Gravity is something that I have always been interested in and curious about

That's really heavy, dude! Far out!

 

[Loudmouth]

Gravity is something that I have always been interested in and curious about and when I heard gravity waves had been detected I was amazed; it wasn't unexpected, gravity waves was to be the next big discovery after the Higgs Boson; but they were expected to come from THE big bang as opposed to A big bang.

That isn't quite right. Any interaction with uneven mass will produce gravitational waves.

"In general, any acceleration that is not spherically or cylindrically symmetric will produce a gravitational wave. Consider a star that goes supernova. This explosion will produce gravitational waves if the mass is not ejected in a spherically symmetric way, although the center of mass may be in the same position before and after the explosion. Another example is a spinning star. A perfectly spherical star will not produce a gravitational wave, but a lumpy star will."
- See more at: http://www.ligo.org/science/GW-Sources.php#sthash.hW9P3gzo.dpuf

The problem is the sensitivity of our detectors which can only detect high amplitude gravitational waves with certain frequencies. That's why it takes the merger of two black holes to produce gravitational waves that we can detect.

When I went to school the Ether theory was still taught and this provided a medium for waves to travel through. When the Ether idea was discarded what was it replaced by?

Then you either went to school a long time ago, or were underserved by your school district. The luminiferous aether was proven not to exist in in the late 1800's by Michelson and Morley. Interestingly, they used an interferometer not unlike the one used to detect gravitational waves. Read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson–Morley_experiment

As you mention elsewhere, light is now described as moving through spacetime where the speed of light is the same in all non-accelerating frames of reference (i.e. Relativity).

I expect that the ripples detected were detected using radio telescopes detecting ripples in a very noisy electro magnetic spectrum.

As mentioned elsewhere, they had two long tunnels that they shot lasers back and forth. Where the lasers met, they produced an interference pattern. Any tiny shift in the interference pattern indicates a change in the length of one of the tunnels. Those changes are due to gravitational waves.

Michelson and Morley used the same technology to fire light in different directions with respect to the Earth's rotation and movement through the solar system. They didn't see any change in the speed of light, no matter which way the beam of light was moving. This indicated that there wasn't an ether that the Earth was moving through since such an ether would produce a different speed of light, depending on which way the light was travelling.

 

[sparow]

Good entertainment but I don't believe it; it explains current thing but is one out of an infinite set of guesses.

 

[sparow]

I don't know a ton either, but I know some of the basics, though I may explain them poorly, so bear with me.

There is no medium for light to travel through because it isn't really a wave. They're particles that travel can through a vacuum. It sometimes acts like a wave, which is the weird part, but light isn't a wave.


There were two facilities on separate parts of the planet that bounced a laser back and forth across a big distance. They detected the ripple when the laser travelled a different distance inside the facilities (at different times, which is how they measured the speed of the wave). The facilities were also very far apart so that they could rule out interference from other sources.


Actually, Einstein showed that gravity is the effect of a mass bending space itself. He showed that time is part of that "fabric" thus "spacetime" was born. Imagine a bowling ball sitting on a stretched out piece of rubber. The bowling ball sinks, bending the rubber. If you roll a ball around that curve it rolls around the bowling ball. That's spacetime bending. It's more complicated bending three dimensional space, as the metaphor uses a rubber "plane" (therefore only 2 dimensions) and that's part of why objects rotate around other objects semi-indefinitely.

I understand the concept but I don't believe it; to me space/time is the same in essence as a straight line, it is a mathematical entity that is able to plot the distortion without knowing what is distorted; it would be better to call that which is distorted something other than space/time so as to leave the mathematics able to exist in it's pure state as well as applied. My understanding of Einstein is he developed a means of explaining the universe mathematically, others have made his mathematics the universe.

 

[sparow]

Shouldn't this be in the science forum? Or is there an ethical consideration to gravity?

I had ethics in mind but had difficulty working it in but I thought it might come out anyway. There appears to be something dishonest in science these days. The hype around gravity waves and Higgs Boson reminds me of TV salesmen selling juicers or exercise machines; I have seen no evidence that would convince me.

I have heard that the Higgs Boson experiment cost 70 billion dollars, collided theoretical particles and a bank of computer processed data for a couple of months and produced a bell shaped curve from which it was concluded the Higgs Boson exists. Who financed the experiment, who benefited from it. I believe it was a con job.

 

[Belk]

I had ethics in mind but had difficulty working it in but I thought it might come out anyway. There appears to be something dishonest in science these days. The hype around gravity waves and Higgs Boson reminds me of TV salesmen selling juicers or exercise machines; I have seen no evidence that would convince me.

I have heard that the Higgs Boson experiment cost 70 billion dollars, collided theoretical particles and a bank of computer processed data for a couple of months and produced a bell shaped curve from which it was concluded the Higgs Boson exists. Who financed the experiment, who benefited from it. I believe it was a con job.

Do you have any evidence other then personal incredulity?

 

[Moral Orel]

I understand the concept but I don't believe it;

You don't believe in General Relativity? Wow.

 

[sparow]

That isn't quite right. Any interaction with uneven mass will produce gravitational waves.

"In general, any acceleration that is not spherically or cylindrically symmetric will produce a gravitational wave. Consider a star that goes supernova. This explosion will produce gravitational waves if the mass is not ejected in a spherically symmetric way, although the center of mass may be in the same position before and after the explosion. Another example is a spinning star. A perfectly spherical star will not produce a gravitational wave, but a lumpy star will."
- See more at: http://www.ligo.org/science/GW-Sources.php#sthash.hW9P3gzo.dpuf

The problem is the sensitivity of our detectors which can only detect high amplitude gravitational waves with certain frequencies. That's why it takes the merger of two black holes to produce gravitational waves that we can detect.



Then you either went to school a long time ago, or were underserved by your school district. The luminiferous aether was proven not to exist in in the late 1800's by Michelson and Morley. Interestingly, they used an interferometer not unlike the one used to detect gravitational waves. Read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson–Morley_experiment

As you mention elsewhere, light is now described as moving through spacetime where the speed of light is the same in all non-accelerating frames of reference (i.e. Relativity).



As mentioned elsewhere, they had two long tunnels that they shot lasers back and forth. Where the lasers met, they produced an interference pattern. Any tiny shift in the interference pattern indicates a change in the length of one of the tunnels. Those changes are due to gravitational waves.

Michelson and Morley used the same technology to fire light in different directions with respect to the Earth's rotation and movement through the solar system. They didn't see any change in the speed of light, no matter which way the beam of light was moving. This indicated that there wasn't an ether that the Earth was moving through since such an ether would produce a different speed of light, depending on which way the light was travelling.

I found the Michelson and Morley experiments interesting; theirs was science even if it failed and not merely a story.

The definition of the ether that I recall was: the same as matter except without mass and from this I reason that zero mass means zero impedance to anything passing through it; it would take zero energy to move it out of the way; this is irrational.

I don't doubt that something was detected but the source of that something is another thing.

I believe that light depends on it's speed for definition; if it went slower or faster it would no longer be light, it would be something else.

 

[sparow]

Do you have any evidence other then personal incredulity?

My evidence is their lack of evidence, they expect to be trusted on the basis of something other than evidence.

 

[sparow]

You don't believe in General Relativity? Wow.

It is possible that I wouldn't believe it if I knew what it was; what I didn't believe was a third party account of a fragment of General Relativity.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Einsteinian physics is well-supported in experiment. It isn't the whole truth about physics, but it is far more than a mere "guess".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Moral Orel]

It is possible that I wouldn't believe it if I knew what it was; what I didn't believe was a third party account of a fragment of General Relativity.

I thought you had some misconceptions that you wanted clarification on, so I was trying to help point you in the right direction. It's clear that is not what you intended after your posts following the OP. I'm not going to get sucked into a debate over the validity of something as well founded as General Relativity. If you want to learn about it, this isn't the way to do it.

 

[sparow]

I thought you had some misconceptions that you wanted clarification on, so I was trying to help point you in the right direction. It's clear that is not what you intended after your posts following the OP. I'm not going to get sucked into a debate over the validity of something as well founded as General Relativity. If you want to learn about it, this isn't the way to do it.

What amazes me is the similarity between science and religion. Debate only proves the skill of the debater, nothing more. Conversation is useful and you have clarified a lot for me but I would be dishonest if I didn't say I disagreed; not with you and your clarification but with what you have clarified.

You say General Relativity is well founded, I believe General Relativity has evolved and Einstein would be shocked at where it has gone. The Universal Church has doctrines that are well founded but are false in that they are based on scripture and not the scriptures themselves.

The topic is really to do with gravity waves and I am not sure how Einstein applied his mathematical system to gravity. My own intuition tells me that gravity wave like magnetic waves would normally be standing spherical waves and not that they are weak but are not electrical in nature.

 

[Armoured]

Gravity is something that I have always been interested in and curious about and when I heard gravity waves had been detected I was amazed; it wasn't unexpected, gravity waves was to be the next big discovery after the Higgs Boson; but they were expected to come from THE big bang as opposed to A big bang.

The article that I have read specifies that what was detected was ripples in the space/time continuum which mystifies me. I'll explain my understanding and someone may be able to tell me where I went wrong.

When I went to school the Ether theory was still taught and this provided a medium for waves to travel through. When the Ether idea was discarded what was it replaced by?

Einstein's space/time continuum is a geometry in which the universe and everything that happens in it can be plotted; it is not a medium that can ripple.

I expect that the ripples detected were detected using radio telescopes detecting ripples in a very noisy electro magnetic spectrum.

In order to detect the ripples a huge breakthrough in technology was required; does anyone know about that?

They weren't detected with radio telescopes, as gravity waves are not part of the EM spectrum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational-wave_observatory

 

[Dave-W]

Shouldn't this be in the science forum? Or is there an ethical consideration to gravity?

In this election season - it reminds me of a political display during the 1974 election cycle that may just bring this from science into morality:

Vote NO on proposition G:
Law of Gravity unfair to fat people.​