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FaithPrevails

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I've outlined what I think addressing the sin should look like in other threads and even briefly in this thread. It does involve having the other spouse speak up about how the sin makes them feel and what their boundaries are. I don't see how that is being wishy washy about confronting the sinner. But, there is a way to do it and succeed and a way to do it and fail.

JMHO
 
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Created2Write

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I definitely agree with this. 100%.
 
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Created2Write

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I agree with this as well, and with what you've said about how the approach should be in pointing out the sin and explaining how it makes the other spouse feel.
 
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mkgal1

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The purpose isn't to get someone to "respond favorably" is is to lead them to repentance.

The Bible says something different about the 2 against 1 scenario......the Bible says,


The trouble is...most churches will not follow through on this. I am not implying this should be a case of sitting the "sinner" down with the bright light cast in his face and he is "told" what he is doing "wrong". It should be done in the fashion of "loving" the sinner...yet "hating" the sin. I just think that has gotten turned into something else.......wimpiness in the face of sin. A typical intervention is a good example of a loving way to handle sin...IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuwDqDaXjM0
 
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FaithPrevails

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Repenting = responding favorably. Doesn't it??

To define the scripture you shared, I would say that means the spouse should show the offending spouse the sin. If s/he doesn't listen, then go to a counselor and work it out there.

I don't think most issues require an intervention unless the person is doing serious harm to themselves or others.
 
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Conservativation

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I agree

And great is the counselor who dispells that expectation right up front, saying if either of you is here to get me to join you berating the other, you are at the wrong place
 
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mkgal1

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Yes, it does. But, since you said "it is a rare person who responds favorably" when you were talking about being "ganged up" on....I took it to mean you meant something else besides repentance.

IF someone is doing something continually, that is "killing their marriage" and isn't responding to the words of their spouse....THAT is when a 3rd party is needed. I don't mean an intervention, in the typical sense, is what is needed. I used that as an example, because I feel the intent is in the right place in interventions. You can see the love for the person...and the hate of what is destroying them.
 
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Conservativation

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The day people start doing interventions on spouses, that are not about addictions or abuse mainly, is the day we should board up the churches and figure it all out again before we even bother to open them again

The problem IS the nebulous nature and personal stake the spouse has in it. It is a hammer of vengeance not a call to repentance, despite the best intentions. Imagine a group of people coming in saying "Hey, you are not loving your wife right".....goodness, cheating? porn? all that sure....but the pandora box is calling a siren song here
 
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FaithPrevails

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I totally agree. I meant that they would not respond favorably to being ganged up on...not that they would not repent if approached the right way. Sorry if I caused confusion.
 
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FaithPrevails

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Not saying "interventions" need to be done on spouses. If you are going to make my words into that, you can stop posting in this thread, Cons.

I thought that is what you meant, too - but understand more clearly now since you clarified.
 
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mkgal1

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I totally agree. I meant that they would not respond favorably to being ganged up on...not that they would not repent if approached the right way. Sorry if I caused confusion.
A person that is defensive with their spouse, most likely WILL be defensive in counseling...and WILL see it as being "ganged up on"......even if that isn't the intent (like in the video of Allison's intervention). The counselor or therapist...IMO...has to be attuned to identifying what the MAIN sin is...the root cause....in order for his/her words to be effective. But, it cannot be a wimpy approach, which is the usual case. The repentance...most likely....will not be immediate. The immediate responsive will, most likely be storming off....slamming doors...yelling...and never coming back to the counselor. That isn't such a bad thing....as it may be the beginning of repentance.
 
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Conservativation

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Not saying "interventions" need to be done on spouses. If you are going to make my words into that, you can stop posting in this thread, Cons.

sorry, it was quite a reasonable assumption on my part, I stand corrected.
I didnt realize here in the married area we were discussing holding friends and extended family to account on sin. my bad
 
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mkgal1

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sorry, it was quite a reasonable assumption on my part, I stand corrected.
I didnt realize here in the married area we were discussing holding friends and extended family to account on sin. my bad
Cons...I am pretty sure you know JUST what I am talking about.....that you are not confused at all. You can kindly find another thread to post in or begin your own if you have more to say on this topic, but I don't want you posting more here--in this thread. Thank you.
 
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mkgal1

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Bored made a comment the other day, that most "troubled marriages" are because of some unrepentant betrayal on the part of at least one spouse.

I thought that was a great point...and I agree.

Betrayal is defined as:

The breaking or violation of a presumptive social contract, trust, or confidence that produces moral and psychological conflict within a relationship amongst individuals.

Treachery: an act of deliberate betrayal
 
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FaithPrevails

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I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree with the bolded more. How does one get from what you described to repentance? I am curious what that looks like to you.

I wonder also, what a "wimpy" approach means and what the approach should look like in your mind. Can you give me examples of each?

I'm talking about specific to a married couple addressing a spouse's sin, not in general or with regards to intervention.
 
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mkgal1

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That is in the article...but, I will quote it:

The "wimpy" approach is this:


It really is up to the individual IF they even get to repentance, but the main thing is that the counselor/therapist has done their job.....they have called the sin, just what it is..."sin".

Dr. Clarke's approach is this (there is more laid out in the article)

*Male pronouns and the word "husband" were used as the above is related to the scenerio of Susie and Bob....I don't believe Dr. Clarke is saying the man is always the sinner....just in the example that was given.
 
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FaithPrevails

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Well, I *thought* that is what I said with this post quoted below. Did you not read it the same way? Because I see Dr. Clarke's approach as pretty much the same as mine.


 
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