devine revelation of the true spirit. sending a hug with the sun as it passes by, guess you'll catch that in about 12 hours!
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Grace etc
- Thread starter FLANDIDLYANDERS
- Start date
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tryingtobeagain
Guest
I was kindly asked to paste this message in this thread for someone who is unable to post at this time due to certain circumstances. I know you all know who it's from... Enjoy and know that those who aren't with us electronically are still with us in spirit.
Grace allows us to look unabashed at our own inadequacies, our drives and desires.
I warn you now. Never be gracious. Never give grace, because the Grace of God is not what you think it is, not that at all. There is a problem with humanity, we never quite realise it until something unexpected happens. And that unforeseeable thing, like love, will baffle and shock and amuse us when we have finally stopped looking for it.
If you want to be gracious, read on. But this is not what you think, its far worse and far better, its as deep as love-making and as dirty as porn. It confuses and it cleans and challenges our souls. Our very human spirituality comes to the fore, that which has eluded us for so long, that part of us that has always known God whether we are Christian, atheist or whatever suddenly falls into view and becomes our intimate friend.
What am I talking about? I have no idea! But at the same time I know it as I always have, like ancient genetic intuition, like the breath I am about to take. Grace will woo us all, but before it does it will crush us to dust. You see, Paul hinted at this all along, and now it comes along, we all wonder why we never saw it. All things are permissible, not everything is beneficial faith is being certain of what we cannot see... there is neither slave nor free Oh no, Im quoting convenient texts again! Well, personally Id rather not quote Bible at all, but lets figure something out here
If you insist on receiving the Grace of God, then prepare for a shock to your core. Grace gives us the ability to see one another as God sees us, without sin. This is what Christ allowed, God can look us face on, and we God, because our sin is as if it no longer exists. I cant think of anything else that makes sense. So, we stop judging people, and simply encourage responsibility for actions, acceptance of consequences, the power of choice. True lasting acidic-tasting Freedom. Do you know what happens when you do this? People love you, people see God in you and you love people and see God in them. Too good to be true right? Absolutely, because heres the next step; we suddenly see ourselves without sin, we suddenly realise all those evil niggley nasty drives, desires and gritty lusts that actually need to be suppressed no more. And so, as Paul asks, what do we do with the Grace we have received? We are gracious, as gracious with ourselves as with others. Because here is the true way of things, we are no different to the world. We are all human and all need freedom from our worst fears and dirtiest drives. But not in total abandonment. Im talking about the more challenging aspect of grace here, to make decisions based on facing what we have feared as evil, unwholesome or plain dirty for years and years and soberly deciding to act or not, taking full responsibility for the consequences, good or bad, seen or unseen. And to be gracious with ourselves. Do nothing out of fear or guilt, and do not do nothing simply because you think its immoral or wrong. Everything is permissible in Christ, in Grace. Not everything is beneficial, and some things you just gotta find out by doing. I know this is a bee-hive of pain and controversy here, but when we see ourselves as God sees us, without sin, we can finally be Grace in all things. Do not hurt others or yourself. Walk with God into that which you know you must do and be but were previously too ashamed or confused to act upon.
Grace in all things, and then more Grace. The way the World lives, is the way we are ALL supposed to live, IMO. The world just needs us living its way, instead of pretending we are different. Its what Jesus did, he lived OUR way. Now lets live our way, the worlds way, as Christ did.
But do not take Grace. Grace is like Karma, the more you give the more you must live in grace, because it would be hypocritical not to. But that des not give us any rights to be lust-driven-sadists, it is like having everything you ever wanted, then realising it was as fulfilling as you hoped, but now theres a job to do.
Pass on my blessing to WWMC CF, namaste.
Grace allows us to look unabashed at our own inadequacies, our drives and desires.
I warn you now. Never be gracious. Never give grace, because the Grace of God is not what you think it is, not that at all. There is a problem with humanity, we never quite realise it until something unexpected happens. And that unforeseeable thing, like love, will baffle and shock and amuse us when we have finally stopped looking for it.
If you want to be gracious, read on. But this is not what you think, its far worse and far better, its as deep as love-making and as dirty as porn. It confuses and it cleans and challenges our souls. Our very human spirituality comes to the fore, that which has eluded us for so long, that part of us that has always known God whether we are Christian, atheist or whatever suddenly falls into view and becomes our intimate friend.
What am I talking about? I have no idea! But at the same time I know it as I always have, like ancient genetic intuition, like the breath I am about to take. Grace will woo us all, but before it does it will crush us to dust. You see, Paul hinted at this all along, and now it comes along, we all wonder why we never saw it. All things are permissible, not everything is beneficial faith is being certain of what we cannot see... there is neither slave nor free Oh no, Im quoting convenient texts again! Well, personally Id rather not quote Bible at all, but lets figure something out here
If you insist on receiving the Grace of God, then prepare for a shock to your core. Grace gives us the ability to see one another as God sees us, without sin. This is what Christ allowed, God can look us face on, and we God, because our sin is as if it no longer exists. I cant think of anything else that makes sense. So, we stop judging people, and simply encourage responsibility for actions, acceptance of consequences, the power of choice. True lasting acidic-tasting Freedom. Do you know what happens when you do this? People love you, people see God in you and you love people and see God in them. Too good to be true right? Absolutely, because heres the next step; we suddenly see ourselves without sin, we suddenly realise all those evil niggley nasty drives, desires and gritty lusts that actually need to be suppressed no more. And so, as Paul asks, what do we do with the Grace we have received? We are gracious, as gracious with ourselves as with others. Because here is the true way of things, we are no different to the world. We are all human and all need freedom from our worst fears and dirtiest drives. But not in total abandonment. Im talking about the more challenging aspect of grace here, to make decisions based on facing what we have feared as evil, unwholesome or plain dirty for years and years and soberly deciding to act or not, taking full responsibility for the consequences, good or bad, seen or unseen. And to be gracious with ourselves. Do nothing out of fear or guilt, and do not do nothing simply because you think its immoral or wrong. Everything is permissible in Christ, in Grace. Not everything is beneficial, and some things you just gotta find out by doing. I know this is a bee-hive of pain and controversy here, but when we see ourselves as God sees us, without sin, we can finally be Grace in all things. Do not hurt others or yourself. Walk with God into that which you know you must do and be but were previously too ashamed or confused to act upon.
Grace in all things, and then more Grace. The way the World lives, is the way we are ALL supposed to live, IMO. The world just needs us living its way, instead of pretending we are different. Its what Jesus did, he lived OUR way. Now lets live our way, the worlds way, as Christ did.
But do not take Grace. Grace is like Karma, the more you give the more you must live in grace, because it would be hypocritical not to. But that des not give us any rights to be lust-driven-sadists, it is like having everything you ever wanted, then realising it was as fulfilling as you hoped, but now theres a job to do.
Pass on my blessing to WWMC CF, namaste.
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and flan ... you changed your clothes. you have obviously had some major spiritual breakthrough in your head!
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tryingtobeagain
Guest
I'm responsible for the clothes change... He is my superhero anyway...
And it's my pleasure to post for those who can't. I get to read it first... lol.
And it's my pleasure to post for those who can't. I get to read it first... lol.
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind
Well-Known Member
EvenMoreConspicuousInHisAbsence! said:
A wonderful and timely message as only this unique messenger could have written. A voice crying in the wilderness, Prepare the way of the Lord! Make straight and clear the path -- every valley to be exalted, every mountain & hill laid low, crooked places made straight, rough places plain, for the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together!!
Behold, the old order of things is passing away, and HE makes all things new, AMEN! and the tesseract from the former into the latter is through the wound in His side and the outpouring emptying of Himself upon the Cross, the pivotal nexus of all time and space, all infinity and eternity!
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Do any of us value people any more? The Church tends proclaim she provides the right choices, that she has made the right choices, that she makes the right choices. Her members feel secure in their salvation; salvation purchased by the death of their God, salvation spent in self-assured rightness and a campaign that simultaneously alienates while seeking to “lovingly” indoctrinate the World. All the while fearing the World and accusing it of contamination, of indoctrination by allure. Which, the World would admit, it does. The World is alluring. To some it is no more alluring than the Churches promises of happiness, wealth and heaven, and no less indoctrinating! While the Church is renowned for revelling in “purity” and rejecting “dirtiness”, she is dirty. She lies, she cheats, she murders in Jesus’ name, she is full of humans who are no less human than any one else. As does the World. The World often recognises this and either continues regardless or excuses many “dirty” behaviours. The truth is both the World and the Church get “dirty”. It is human to be so. But I am realising that the reverse is also true, both the Church and the World get “purity”. I have seen purity in the dirtiest of places, because purity is just as human as it is godly. Humans reflect God naturally, so it should not shock us to find Jesus at the drunken wedding party; a party drunk on wine he miraculously made!
Just because we find Jesus with the harlots, thieves, dirty politicians and jihadis does not mean their actions are justified or “pure”. But people are to be lived alongside regardless of their “dirt” because Christ lived it by example, Christ commanded it and Christ still does it, with or without his Church. It is God who works for the good in all things, so we must live assuming that goodness exists, seen or unseen. Because our ability to distinguish between purity and dirty is less than Gods. This is why I refuse to assume that I am “saved” or that I am “right” or “pure”. All I know for sure, and all I know Biblically, is that I am a “sinner” chosen and loved by God. Always will be. So I have no reason to expect any less of anyone else.
I smoke a Cuban Cigar a month, roughly. They are expensive so I rely on other people to buy them for me. I began this because of the people I come into contact with. The Church often has no idea how common dope is in the World. Rather than turn down dope and proclaim my self-righteous reasons to one and all, I decided to save myself and my hosts the embarrassment by taking out a long, long Cuban and lighting up. The advantage is that I do not inhale and smoke so irregularly that I have little to no risk of cancer. A Cuban is so prestigious that people do not even think to offer me dope, so I and they save face. I have been accused of being a stumbling block to other Christians who struggle with smoking, but they miss a crucial point; I rarely smoke in front of Christians because, honestly, I would never find their kind in those social circles! And so I am accused of compromising my beliefs or my witness for Christ. Again, I see more of Christ in the lowliest drunken dope-smoking art student than in Church. I would more compromise my beliefs by attending a meeting once a week to listen to the Bible being read, sit and stand, sing and nod and continue my week in blissful detachment from my Sundays experience. That would compromise Christ, in my opinion. And many who would not claim to know Christ would agree.
Just because we find Jesus with the harlots, thieves, dirty politicians and jihadis does not mean their actions are justified or “pure”. But people are to be lived alongside regardless of their “dirt” because Christ lived it by example, Christ commanded it and Christ still does it, with or without his Church. It is God who works for the good in all things, so we must live assuming that goodness exists, seen or unseen. Because our ability to distinguish between purity and dirty is less than Gods. This is why I refuse to assume that I am “saved” or that I am “right” or “pure”. All I know for sure, and all I know Biblically, is that I am a “sinner” chosen and loved by God. Always will be. So I have no reason to expect any less of anyone else.
I smoke a Cuban Cigar a month, roughly. They are expensive so I rely on other people to buy them for me. I began this because of the people I come into contact with. The Church often has no idea how common dope is in the World. Rather than turn down dope and proclaim my self-righteous reasons to one and all, I decided to save myself and my hosts the embarrassment by taking out a long, long Cuban and lighting up. The advantage is that I do not inhale and smoke so irregularly that I have little to no risk of cancer. A Cuban is so prestigious that people do not even think to offer me dope, so I and they save face. I have been accused of being a stumbling block to other Christians who struggle with smoking, but they miss a crucial point; I rarely smoke in front of Christians because, honestly, I would never find their kind in those social circles! And so I am accused of compromising my beliefs or my witness for Christ. Again, I see more of Christ in the lowliest drunken dope-smoking art student than in Church. I would more compromise my beliefs by attending a meeting once a week to listen to the Bible being read, sit and stand, sing and nod and continue my week in blissful detachment from my Sundays experience. That would compromise Christ, in my opinion. And many who would not claim to know Christ would agree.
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