Grace and faith

[InSpiritInTruth]

There are some who might say we must first have faith in order to recieve the grace of God. But I truly believe it is the grace of God that comes first in order that we then might have faith.

Here is one my favorites verses to show this point...

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I believe it is God who first reveals his love toward us, so that we can then in turn return that love through faith.

 

[Fireinfolding]

There are some who might say we must first have faith in order to recieve the grace of God. But I truly believe it is the grace of God that comes first in order that we then might have faith.

Here is one my favorites verses to show this point...

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I believe it is God who first reveals his love toward us, so that we can then in turn return that love through faith.

I think you could be right my brother, because it speaks of receiving "grace for grace". Though at the same time speaks of us having (through faith) "access into" the grace by which we stand. I was looking at this same thing on another thread but coming from the standpoint in respects to "the effectual working of" his power, or "the effect of" of Christ full of grace and truth. We love Him because He first loved us

This is the post I was talking about (from a different standpoint though)

Sometimes we encounter arguments springing up between faith alone and faith without works. That its not by works but by faith etc. So I figured to look at it of faith and by grace and catch the various connections that way.

Whereas it says, that it is of faith that it might be by grace (see below). When Paul speaks of his labouring more then all of them, he stresses (yet not I) but the grace that was with him. Elsewhere he says that it is by faith that we has access into that very grace (or that effectual working) which was in Christ

For example, its says he was full of grace and truth

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth

And of this fulness we have received (grace for grace

John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace

Jesus said, if I do not the works of my Father do not believe me

Who doeth the works? (as Jesus confirms)

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works


Same with Paul (yet not I likewise)

1Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

The effectual working"

Ephes 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

The effectual working" again...

Ephes 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love

In "the measure of" (every part)

Romans 12:3 ...according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Again...

according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The effectual working is in the measure (which is the measure of faith) God hath dealt.

That one is really from a standpoint of the effectual working of his power, but Paul speaks of the love of God appearing unto us first, while we were yet without strength (still sinners) God takes the first initiate, God loves first, even in these things He has the preemenence that no man may boast.

I mean, recall the verse where he speaks of circumcising their hearts, that he would do so THAT they may love the Lord their God with all their hearts souls minds and strength? Makes sense because the natural man is just plain enmity (hatred) against God. And here we were His enemies (even in our minds) and sheds abroad (in our hearts) this great love for Him (The love of God in Christ Jesus).

It blows my mind actually to think about it bro, I will circumcise their hearts TO LOVE ME, and so SHEDS abroad (in our hearts) by the Spirit THE LOVE OF GOD

Good post brother, I love mediating on these things its very edifying (at least it is to me) God bless you

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

When the Lord revealed himself to me I was not looking for Him, I was living a sinful lifestyle like most the rest of the world is now.

Which made me think of this verse...
Isaiah 65:1
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

My experience was like a Damascus road experience, but all the same, I believe each one of us is called first by God, and drawn to his Word(Son) in one way or another.

Just like John 6:44 states;"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

That verse pretty much removes any boasting in ones own ability to find Jesus Christ. God has chosen us, not the other way around.

Peace.

 

[Fireinfolding]

When the Lord revealed himself to me I was not looking for Him, I was living a sinful lifestyle like most the rest of the world is now.

Which made me think of this verse...
Isaiah 65:1
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

My experience was like a Damascus road experience, but all the same, I believe each one of us is called first by God, and drawn to his Word(Son) in one way or another.

Just like John 6:44 states;"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

That verse pretty much removes any boasting in ones own ability to find Jesus Christ. God has chosen us, not the other way around.

Peace.

ME TOO!!! That is so true to my own experience, I had shared this on a post elsewhere too. I was completely bored waiting for a client to come home, I was a manicurist at the time (went home to home type thing) long story short, there was a track (I make fun of those and perhaps I shouldnt) because to be most honest I picked that thing up and read, "this is eternal life, that they might know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent"... and that was all it took for me, like a lightning bolt hit me and I was off and running by myself ever since

I had no interest in God, I was steep in my sins (and oh boy was I!) I sure wasnt looking for Him but all the sudden there was this imparted desire to seek Him, like He passed by me and said follow me or something, and I just got up from that point in time and started after Him is the only way I can rightly describe it.

My mom sorta laughs because as I shared with you before, no one could get me to read (you know the story) I graduated with a 5th grade reading average, I didnt know how to punctuate (at all) I was really a mess that way, my parents (being divoriced) and me quite a rebel used to take me aside each summer for three months to get me through to my next grade because I just didnt care, all their efforts yeilded was a point above absolute failure. By the skin of my teeth I made it (to them it was the worse thing possible that their daughter failed school, and summer school was an every years thing (hated it school and reading with a passion).

Then come the Lord "out of nowhere" and being able to read His words became this HUGE obession with me. Theres no way that come from myself, my life is a living witness to the contrary of that.

Gods just awesome, He really is, with Him all things are possible, He can put it in you to do according to His will (I havent a single doubt about that).

The look on my parents faces was sorta priceless, YOU WANT TO READ???



Our God Rocks! There none like Him

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

ME TOO!!! That is so true to my own experience, I had shared this on a post elsewhere too. I was completely bored waiting for a client to come home, I was a manicurist at the time (went home to home type thing) long story short, there was a track (I make fun of those and perhaps I shouldnt) because to be most honest I picked that thing up and read, "this is eternal life, that they might know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent"... and that was all it took for me, like a lightning bolt hit me and I was off and running by myself ever since

I had no interest in God, I was steep in my sins (and oh boy was I!) I sure wasnt looking for Him but all the sudden there was this imparted desire to seek Him, like He passed by me and said follow me or something, and I just got up from that point in time and started after Him is the only way I can rightly describe it.

My mom sorta laughs because as I shared with you before, no one could get me to read (you know the story) I graduated with a 5th grade reading average, I didnt know how to punctuate (at all) I was really a mess that way, my parents (being divoriced) and me quite a rebel used to take me aside each summer for three months to get me through to my next grade because I just didnt care, all their efforts yeilded was a point above absolute failure. By the skin of my teeth I made it (to them it was the worse thing possible that their daughter failed school, and summer school was an every years thing (hated it school and reading with a passion).

Then come the Lord "out of nowhere" and being able to read His words became this HUGE obession with me. Theres no way that come from myself, my life is a living witness to the contrary of that.

Gods just awesome, He really is, with Him all things are possible, He can put it in you to do according to His will (I havent a single doubt about that).

The look on my parents faces was sorta priceless, YOU WANT TO READ???



Our God Rocks! There none like Him

Amen to that Sis. I love to hear peoples personal testimonies of their own conversions, it really causes my heart to rejoice. I tend to withhold my own personal experience because I found that most people, including christians, find my own personal experience hard to believe. And even some feel like I am being boastful about myself in some way. Even though I know my own righteousness had nothing to do with it.

I witnessed to my Mom(who is a christian) right after my experiece and she thought I had a devil. I would later witness to my Dad,(who claims to be a christian) who lived out of a state at the time, and told him of my experience, and he then replied to me in his sarcastic manner;"why would God choose you?"

Those kind of things tend to knock the wind out of your sails if you know what I mean. But I try not to let those things get to me, because I know the Lord loves me.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Amen to that Sis. I love to hear peoples personal testimonies of their own conversions, it really causes my heart to rejoice. I tend to withhold my own personal experience because I found that most people, including christians, find my own personal experience hard to believe. And even some feel like I am being boastful about myself in some way. Even though I know my own righteousness had nothing to do with it.

I witnessed to my Mom(who is a christian) right after my experiece and she thought I had a devil. I would later witness to my Dad,(who claims to be a christian) who lived out of a state at the time, and told him of my experience, and he then replied to me in his sarcastic manner; "why would God choose you?"

Those kind of things tend to knock the wind out of your sails if you know what I mean. But I try not to let those things get to me, because I know the Lord loves me.

I know what you mean bro

1Cr 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

You should have said, why not me?

I mean the verse prior says...

1Cr 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:


I mean theres just no room to boast your special except in what you have a great deficit in, lets be real

 

[Fireinfolding]

I suppose the right answer might be BECAUSE I am most foolish, very weak, and of the unwisest folk in the world

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I know what you mean bro

1Cr 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

You should have said, why not me?

I mean the verse prior says...

1Cr 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:


I mean theres just no room to boast your special except in what you have a great deficit in, lets be real

I learned with maturity, that to put on Christ is also to put on being smitten, and afflicted like Christ. It is all part of Gods plan, as hard as that is to recieve. We are all bias in a sense, because we find it hard to forsake our selves.

But that is the nature of the flesh, just as it is written; no man at any time has hated his own flesh.

But you will find, when we become weak to our own flesh, then we are made stronger in His Spirit.

That is why Paul said; in Christ I die daily. The flesh grows weaker, but the Spirit grows stronger.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Dont you think hating ones own flesh is speaking of nourishing it in this sense though bro?

Ephes 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Ya sorta were pulling from all over there Mr marbles

Ofcourse, not at all saying when we are weak we are not the stronger in the Lord or anything to the contrary

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Dont you think hating ones own flesh is speaking of nourishing it in this sense though bro?

Ephes 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Ya sorta were pulling from all over there Mr marbles

Ofcourse, not at all saying when we are weak we are not the stronger in the Lord or anything to the contrary

That verse is speaking of the Body of Christ,(Spiritual Body) which the Lord loves like a man loves his own body.

I'm so misunderstood.

 

[Fireinfolding]

That verse is speaking of the Body of Christ,(Spiritual Body) which the Lord loves like a man loves his own body.

I'm so misunderstood.

Would you stop I was just seeing it make a comparison, speaking of loving ones wife (their own flesh) even as Christ loved the church, not hating their own flesh so men ought to love their wives as their own bodies. Because He that loveth his wife loveth himself. Its making a spiritual comparison but is followed by a "nevertheless" let each man love his wife type deal.

I wasnt disagreeing with ya kiddo on the other things, see?

Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

2Cr 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Acts 25:14 And when they had been there many days, Festus declared Paul's cause unto the king, saying, There is a certain man left in bonds by Felix:

Heb 11:37a They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted,

Acts 14:19-20 ...having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up.

Heb 11:37b were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

1Cr 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
　
　
　I just wasnt catching the comparison in that one, cut the verse short and sometimes it can take on a whole new meaning is all

I agree, through weakness in many ways are made strong, and those things (only some here) are listed for us to see the point you were making.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Would you stop I was just seeing it make a comparison, speaking of loving ones wife (their own flesh) even as Christ loved the church, not hating their own flesh so men ought to love their wives as their own bodies. Because He that loveth his wife loveth himself. Its making a spiritual comparison but is followed by a "nevertheless" let each man love his wife type deal.

I wasnt disagreeing with ya kiddo on the other things, see?

Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

2Cr 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Acts 25:14 And when they had been there many days, Festus declared Paul's cause unto the king, saying, There is a certain man left in bonds by Felix:

Heb 11:37a They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted,

Acts 14:19-20 ...having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up.

Heb 11:37b were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

1Cr 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
　
　
　I just wasnt catching the comparison in that one, cut the verse short and sometimes it can take on a whole new meaning is all

I agree, through weakness in many ways are made strong, and those things (only some here) are listed for us to see the point you were making.

You do understand!

 

[Fireinfolding]

You do understand!

Im so misunderstood

Busting your choppers bro

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Im so misunderstood

Busting your choppers bro

Ah, but I understood your misunderstanding, understand?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Ah, but I understood your misunderstanding, understand?

Your always a tough cookie to understand

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Your always a tough cookie to understand

I like to swim in the deep end of the pool, but sometimes I get over my head.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I like to swim in the deep end of the pool, but sometimes I get over my head.

In otherwords you just drown your words out bro I think I just splash around in shallower puddles or something lol

Heh, deep or shallow its my puddle my lot (or my portion) and so I will rejoice and be glad in it

Not despising the days of small things here lol