grace again

[dogs4thewin]

How can you say that one can not resist God's grace?

 

[Elderone]

The Bible tells us God is all powerful and omnipotent. (Omnipotent - Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.)

Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Jer 32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

In view of this can anyone possibly believe puny man can stand up to God? Not the God of the Bible we can't.

Even so, God does not strong arm His chosen, but, as the answer to question 31 of The Shorter Catechism states, He convinces us of our sin and misery.

Westminster Shorter Catechism

Question 31
​

Q: What is effectual calling?

A: Effectual calling is the work of God's Spirit,1 whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery,2 enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ,3 and renewing our wills,4 he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered to us in the gospel.5


1. 2 Timothy 1:8-9. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Ephesians 1:18-20. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places.

2. Acts 2:37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

3. Acts 26:18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

4. Ezekiel 11:19. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:26-27. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

5. John 6:44-45. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Deuteronomy 30:6. And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Ephesians 2:5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

 

[dogs4thewin]

The Bible tells us God is all powerful and omnipotent. (Omnipotent - Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.)

Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Jer 32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

In view of this can anyone possibly believe puny man can stand up to God? Not the God of the Bible we can't.

Even so, God does not strong arm His chosen, but, as the answer to question 31 of The Shorter Catechism states, He convinces us of our sin and misery.

Westminster Shorter Catechism

Question 31
​

Q: What is effectual calling?

A: Effectual calling is the work of God's Spirit,1 whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery,2 enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ,3 and renewing our wills,4 he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered to us in the gospel.5


1. 2 Timothy 1:8-9. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Ephesians 1:18-20. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places.

2. Acts 2:37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

3. Acts 26:18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

4. Ezekiel 11:19. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:26-27. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

5. John 6:44-45. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Deuteronomy 30:6. And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Ephesians 2:5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

Please explain how I ( or anyone could WANT Hell I said WANT Hell after knowing about God's grace and having once accepted it if it cannot be resisted.

 

[Eddie L]

Please explain how I ( or anyone could WANT Hell I said WANT Hell after knowing about God's grace and having once accepted it if it cannot be resisted.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
1 John 2:18-20

​

Anyone who ultimately rejects grace was really never taken by it. A true encounter with Jesus will be reflected by a person's perseverance. If a person walks away from the faith to never return, they are only demonstrating that they never had a real faith to begin with.

 

[dogs4thewin]

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
1 John 2:18-20

​

Anyone who ultimately rejects grace was really never taken by it. A true encounter with Jesus will be reflected by a person's perseverance. If a person walks away from the faith to never return, they are only demonstrating that they never had a real faith to begin with.

So one must accept it. If grace is the missing link to get people to accept Christ how can one know about the grace and yet be dead set that they do not WANT it.

 

[Eddie L]

So one must accept it. If grace is the missing link to get people to accept Christ how can one know about the grace and yet be dead set that they do not WANT it.

Grace isn't something you know about. Grace is something that changes you.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Grace isn't something you know about. Grace is something that changes you.

How can it change you if you do not know about it?

 

[Eddie L]

How can it change you if you do not know about it?

There is 'knowing about grace', which is a mere mental exercise, and there is KNOWING grace, which is the intimate experience of it. Many people know grace without knowing about it, because until it changes you it can't be understood.

 

[dogs4thewin]

There is 'knowing about grace', which is a mere mental exercise, and there is KNOWING grace, which is the intimate experience of it. Many people know grace without knowing about it, because until it changes you it can't be understood.

Grace is undeserved favor humans can grant others undeserved favor.

 

[Eddie L]

Grace is undeserved favor humans can grant others undeserved favor.

In general, grace is anything that is undeserved favor. When we're talking about grace from God, we can be more specific. When God is gracious to the heart of man, He is changing it. It isn't expressed as an exchange of knowledge. It is expressed as new life in Christ.

Anyone who has experienced God's saving grace will have their eyes opened to see the beauty of it. You can't see how beautiful Jesus is and want to walk away from him. It would be more natural for a moth to come to fly away from light than for a person who has been graciously given a new heart to come to walk away from the Light of Jesus.

Jesus isn't beautiful because we decide that He is. He is simply beautiful. Grace overcomes our blindness so that we can finally see the reality of Jesus.

 

[dogs4thewin]

In general, grace is anything that is undeserved favor. When we're talking about grace from God, we can be more specific. When God is gracious to the heart of man, He is changing it. It isn't expressed as an exchange of knowledge. It is expressed as new life in Christ.

can human grace sometime change the heart? Seeing how others act and being like you know what I want to improve.

 

[Eddie L]

can human grace sometime change the heart? Seeing how others act and being like you know what I want to improve.

If a person expresses genuine love and is gracious to another person, they have become a means of the grace of God. God is using that gracious person to show His grace to someone else.

 

[dogs4thewin]

If a person expresses genuine love and is gracious to another person, they have become a means of the grace of God. God is using that gracious person to show His grace to someone else.

I have dealt with some NON-Christians One online YEARS ago who showed me grace and we both knew it was because according to the CONTRACT to which I had agreed he was not to grant my request, yet I asks for it and he did so both parties KNOWING that it was grace.

 

[Eddie L]

I have dealt with some NON-Christians One online YEARS ago who showed me grace and we both knew it was because according to the CONTRACT to which I had agreed he was not to grant my request, yet I asks for it and he did so both parties KNOWING that it was grace.

That was gracious of him, but that isn't the same thing as divine grace.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That was gracious of him, but that isn't the same thing as divine grace.

but we have said that grace is undeserved favor. If I am on staff on a forum and the "contact" says we can not go on leave ( a status allowing people to remain on staff while taking a break from their required duties) for two months after joining staff and I asks Rob (the main admin) he still is though I no longer am on staff on that forum to go on leave seven weeks after joining staff. He grants this when clearly the "contract" says to wait two months that is undeserved favor. Rob did not claim to be a Christian and as far as I know still does not this was three four years ago I believe. I know I have been a member of the forum for nearly seven years and that was my first of at least two times being on staff. That action on his part was grace, that is undeserved favor so how is divine grace different when the meaning is the same?

 

[twin1954]

but we have said that grace is undeserved favor. If I am on staff on a forum and the "contact" says we can not go on leave ( a status allowing people to remain on staff while taking a break from their required duties) for two months after joining staff and I asks Rob (the main admin) he still is though I no longer am on staff on that forum to go on leave seven weeks after joining staff. He grants this when clearly the "contract" says to wait two months that is undeserved favor. Rob did not claim to be a Christian and as far as I know still does not this was three four years ago I believe. I know I have been a member of the forum for nearly seven years and that was my first of at least two times being on staff. That action on his part was grace, that is undeserved favor so how is divine grace different when the meaning is the same?

Rob needs grace as much as you do. God doesn't. It isn't to difficult to be gracious to someone when you need for someone to be gracious to you. God needs no grace from us. He freely gives grace to us though.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Rob needs grace as much as you do. God doesn't. It isn't to difficult to be gracious to someone when you need for someone to be gracious to you. God needs no grace from us. He freely gives grace to us though.

How can you say that it is easy to give grace when you need it. Grace, for some is hard to give in this fallen world many people want others to get what they deserve and when given the chance will see to it that to the greatest extent that person can the other will get what they deserve. Take for example, charging someone with a crime, if someone does something to your person and by law you have the right to charge them with the crime and choose not to do so that is grace choosing to do so is giving them what they deserve. What do many people do do they charge them or not?

 

[twin1954]

How can you say that it is easy to give grace when you need it. Grace, for some is hard to give in this fallen world many people want others to get what they deserve and when given the chance will see to it that to the greatest extent that person can the other will get what they deserve. Take for example, charging someone with a crime, if someone does something to your person and by law you have the right to charge them with the crime and choose not to do so that is grace choosing to do so is giving them what they deserve. What do many people do do they charge them or not?

Do you actually think about what others offer here? What reason does God have to be gracious?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Do you actually think about what others offer here? What reason does God have to be gracious?

He has no reason, other than love for His creation.

 

[twin1954]

He has no reason, other than love for His creation.

What reason do you or Rob have to be gracious?