Got a question

[ctay]

Since our pastor took the call, there was talk at the council meeting about whether to have pastors come and do the services or have the congregation doing it besides this lady that wants the congregation to do it. Can they do that and does that mean no communion if there's no pastor? I never been through the process before, growing up we always moved and the last church I was at the pastor was there for 35 yrs and I wasn't there when they went through everything and got their new pastor

 

[dinkime]

i would prefer having a Pastor do it, but the elders at our church give the Pastor communion because there is only one pastor...if that is not ok, then our Pastor has not had a "proper" communion in a long time!!

 

[DaRev]

According to the Confessions, no one should administer the Lord's Supper unless they are regularly called. In other words, only an ordained pastor can administer the Lord's Supper in the Divine Service.

If this congregation is insisting on having laity do the communion service, they could be removed from the synod.

 

[dinkime]

ordained and having a call are 2 different things, though, aren't they? i have recieved a call to teach Sunday school, our Pastor recieved a call to preach, but he is also ordained...

also, how is a Pastor to recieve communion if he is the only pastor at the church?

 

[DaRev]

ordained and having a call are 2 different things, though, aren't they? i have recieved a call to teach Sunday school, our Pastor recieved a call to preach, but he is also ordained...

also, how is a Pastor to recieve communion if he is the only pastor at the church?

Regularly called to do word and sacrament ministry, which also means ordained.

Are you a synodically commissioned and rostered staff member of your church?

 

[dinkime]

Regularly called to do word and sacrament ministry, which also means ordained.

Are you a synodically commissioned and rostered staff member of your church?

synod has nothing to do with mine, but that you for the clear up....

but how is a Pastor suppose to recieve communion if he is the only ordained person at the church? should he just not take it at his own church since it would be an elder giving it to him?

 

[Jim47]

According to the Confessions, no one should administer the Lord's Supper unless they are regularly called. In other words, only an ordained pastor can administer the Lord's Supper in the Divine Service.

If this congregation is insisting on having laity do the communion service, they could be removed from the synod.

Would you mind pointing me to where it says that?

 

[QuiltAngel]

I think it has to do with the fact that the Pastor has consecrated the elements.

Personally, I think it better that a Pastor serve as a vacancy Pastor. I would have a problem with there being no Pastor involved for a period of time. Pastor's are charged with preaching and teaching the Gospel in truth and pruity and to administer the sacraments. I am not sure how this would be with services lay led. Also, you run the risk of somone furthering their personal agenda.

Just some of my rambling thoughts

 

[DaRev]

synod has nothing to do with mine, but that you for the clear up....

A "call" in the LCMS refers to an ordained pastor (ordained minister) or to a synodically trained teacher, DCE, DCO, or DFM (commissioned minister).

but how is a Pastor suppose to recieve communion if he is the only ordained person at the church? should he just not take it at his own church since it would be an elder giving it to him?

To "administer" the Sacrament refers to presiding over the Divine Service and particularly the Service of the Sacrament where the consecration of the elements takes place. There can be assistants (deacons or elders) to help in the distribution of the Sacrament with the Divine Service. A pastor can either commune himself (which we are discouraged from doing for some reason) or the pastor can receive from the communion assistant.

Assisting withe the distribution is not the same as administering the Sacrament.

BTW, the communion assistants should be men only, and the ordained pastor should be the one who distributes the body of Christ since that indicates admission to the Lord's table and only the ordained pastor can do that.

Hope that helps.

 

[DaRev]

Would you mind pointing me to where it says that?

Augsburg Confession article XIV:

Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.

 

[ctay]

I was just wondering if someone else could do it. I said something to the president of the congregation one time before the pastor even announced the call, he said that the council or elders could vote on it and if everyone else agreed on it someone could give communion, I didn't think it was right at the time. Since there's been talk about the congregation doing the services, I may go somewhere else. I'll have to wait and see what happens, I rather have a pastor come help.

 

[Jim47]

Augsburg Confession article XIV:

Thanks Rev, but when someone is called such as an elder to serve his congregation how can that be any different? Since it is God who calls His servants and does so through the congregation whoever is called to service in my eyes has recieved a call.

 

[DaRev]

I was just wondering if someone else could do it. I said something to the president of the congregation one time before the pastor even announced the call, he said that the council or elders could vote on it and if everyone else agreed on it someone could give communion, I didn't think it was right at the time. Since there's been talk about the congregation doing the services, I may go somewhere else. I'll have to wait and see what happens, I rather have a pastor come help.

I don't know where they got that idea from. Unless they are going to "call and ordain" someone from the congregation to be the pastor, in which case they would be expelled from the Synod.

If this is what they are insistant upon doing, it probably would be good to not go there.
Is there another congregation close to you?

 

[DaRev]

Thanks Rev, but when someone is called such as an elder to serve his congregation how can that be any different? Since it is God who calls His servants and does so through the congregation whoever is called to service in my eyes has recieved a call.

Well, I think that this is one of those areas where the WELS and the LCMS differ.
The LCMS holds that the Pastoral office is Divinely instituited, so the one who is "regularly called" refers to the one who is called and ordained into the Pastoral office. What the New Testament calls "elders," "bishops," and "presbyters" we call "pastors." What we call elders in the church today are called "deacons" in the NT. Deacons/elders are merely assistants to the one Divinely instituted office.

 

[ctay]

I don't know where they got that idea from. Unless they are going to "call and ordain" someone from the congregation to be the pastor, in which case they would be expelled from the Synod.

If this is what they are insistant upon doing, it probably would be good to not go there.
Is there another congregation close to you?

There's 3 other LCMS church's to pick from, about 25 to 40 minute drive from me.

 

[ctay]

Went to the congregational meeting last night, a few were leaning toward doing the services themselves. I talked to the president after the meeting and told him if they decide to do the services themselves I was leaving because of Communion. He still thinks he can give communion. If they go this route, I'm leaving. I don't agree with it.

 

[porterross]

Went to the congregational meeting last night, a few were leaning toward doing the services themselves. I talked to the president after the meeting and told him if they decide to do the services themselves I was leaving because of Communion. He still thinks he can give communion. If they go this route, I'm leaving. I don't agree with it.

That's amazing and disappointing. Did anyone encourage him to contact your district president before going ahead with this? Surely another pastor in the district is going to have to make it known when something like that is happening.

 

[Studeclunker]

You're right, PR. This is what the District President is there for. Perhaps you could write him a letter, Ctay, and let him know what your congregational president is planning to do. Perhaps the DP can diplomatically steer your CP away from this error. The DP's position demands the authority and respect the average layperson doesn't have. I know that many CPs can become very full of themselves. This can lead to errors like this. I know in that position, I wouldn't be able to continue attending with the congregation leadership behaving in that manner. Sometimes though, an appeal to the higher authority can get results.

By the by, the liturgy provides for the general services to be conducted by a lay person. It's just the baptisim, communion, etc... that are the purview of the Ordained Pastor.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Was your Circuit Counselor present at this meeting? If not, he should have been. Usually the Circuit Counselor and to an extent, the District President are involved in the process.

 

[ctay]

The Circuit Pastor wasn't at the meeting. I don't know about getting a hold of the District president, he know's my pastor pretty good and they are the ones hiring the pastor we have now to work in New Orleans. I talked the president of the congregation after the meeting and told him I would leave if they go this route. I told him I had to go somewhere where they gave communion, he asked if I would take communion from him if he did it, I said no. He still told me he could do it.