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[mkgal1]

I don't care if it's slippery slope reasoning. The argument is that it CAN destroy families. I just demonstrated some of the ways it CAN - and HAS.

I think that's a safe argument for teen sex (and also a good warning for those parents that believe just having the rule is enough).....but I see that as separate to a couple that is older....have jobs....can support themselves, etc. Again. ...I'm not condoning....but there needs to be a more solid reason than that to convince people.

 

[DZoolander]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not necessarily promoting the idea of premarital sex.

What I find problematic, though, is that it's always been my belief that Christianity has become absolutely nothing but the "purity faith" - often at the exclusion of everything else. IMHO God has far more expectations of you than the fact that you keep it in your pants until you get married. Yet - rarely do we ever hear people talking about how to best demonstrate your love of Him - or your obedience to Him - other than within the context of keeping your junk under wraps.

...and IMHO that's a shame.

So - my natural inclination is to relegate sexual sin into a corner the way that everyone else seems to relegate every other moral issue (comparatively speaking).

 

[mkgal1]

A Google search that I plan on doing is something like "how many parents that kick out pregnant teens are pro life?" Because that seems like a contradiction of beliefs (but my hypothesis is that it's pretty common).

 

[mkgal1]

Speaking of married lives being destroyed because of the couple not being on the same page (and selfishness....and a lack of natural affection, I think):

After a new father refused to give up his newborn son, born with Down syndrome, the mother left both of them. Now the father needs a lot of help.

According to ABC News, Samuel Forrest of Armenia was waiting outside of his wife's hospital room as she was giving birth when he first heard his newborn son's cries.

"This pediatrician walks out of the room with a little bundle -- that was Leo," Forrest said. "She had his face covered up and hospital authorities wouldn't let me see him or my wife. When the doctor came out, he said 'there's a real problem with your son.'
Forrest was told that Leo was diagnosed with Down syndrome. Despite initial shock, Forrest was not deterred from loving his son.

When Forrest walked back into his wife's hospital room, Leo in his arms, his wife gave him an ultimatum: if he chose to keep the baby, she would divorce him.

Despite his wife's warnings, Forrest decided he wanted to keep Leo. One week later, Leo's mother filed for divorce.~Wife leaves husband who refused to give up newborn son with Down syndrome | abc7news.com

 

[ValleyGal]

I think that's a safe argument for teen sex (and also a good warning for those parents that believe just having the rule is enough).....but I see that as separate to a couple that is older....have jobs....can support themselves, etc. Again. ...I'm not condoning....but there needs to be a more solid reason than that to convince people.

Well I guess it's a good thing I'm not out to "convince" people then, right? I brought this up to discuss, not convince.

 

[DZoolander]

I'm still a little hazy about the question on this thread...or what exactly it is we're discussing...lol

Is the question along the lines of "is there a correlation between frequency of pre-marital sex and marital dis-satisfaction?"

To be honest - the numbers and what they imply don't really surprise me. The gist of it is "women are more sexually available prior to marriage than after - and men remain about the same."

That doesn't really surprise me, based upon anecdotal stuff I've heard from family, friends, etc. However, the causes for that (I've always thought) are different than what is implied by the question posed above (about "does the frequency of premarital sex...blah blah blah".)

Rather - I'd lump the observation of:

"Women are less available for sex after marriage - while men remain about the same"
into the same type of thing as another thing I've noticed anecdotally which is...
"Boyfriends are more likely to cheat than girlfriends, but wives are more likely to cheat than husbands."

I believe both are true - and I think that most likely they have the same sort of social/causal reasons for being that way.

(lol - this position always gets me in trouble for saying it - but I do believe it's the case)

 

[mkgal1]

Well I guess it's a good thing I'm not out to "convince" people then, right? I brought this up to discuss, not convince.

I didn't mean that in a personal sense (or even directly related to this thread), I was thinking more along the lines of parents convincing their children.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I've seen or heard of families deal with negative fallout related to issues of premarital sex, marriages, divorce, announcements of homosexuality and transgender inclinations, teenage pregnancy, premarital pregnancy, illness, STDs, affairs...

I think what "ruins the family" isn't the act, it's the response to it. Your daughter comes home pregnant at 16 and you throw her out of your house? News flash... Your daughter having sex before marriage didn't ruin your family. You looking your pregnant daughter in the face and saying "you're not welcome in my house, get out..." That ruined your family. Brothers beating up boyfriends for having sex with their sister? His having sex with your sister didn't land you in jail, you acting like a thug in response to it landed you in jail.

Even the Grandma/Grandpa raising baby with teenage daughter and single mom with HIV, in those situations your family isn't "ruined." Your family is going through something you may not have chosen to go through because of how hard it is, but it's not "ruined."

I mean, my mother got pregnant the first time she had sex by a guy she didn't even really know in the era before legal abortion. After she decided to keep my sister and not abort (even though it was before legal abortion, she said getting one was neither hard to do or expensive), her conservative German parents disowned her and she found herself pregnant, homeless, and jobless. When she told the guy who got her pregnant, he vanished until just before my sister was born. When he came back they married last minute, and that's when my mother discovered he was a paranoid schizophrenic drug addict. By the time she was in her early 20s, she was divorced with a small child, not collecting child support, and couldn't get a job because it was of an era where being a single mother made her unhirable for even retail. Her parents still disowned her and offered no help.

Most would have thrown her away as a woman who "ruined her life," including people who are in that situation themselves, but she ended up fighting to go to college, graduate with a nursing degree, met and married my father, and now lives an upper class lifestyle. When people hear she had a baby at 17, people are stunned.

So clearly, having a baby as a teen didn't ruin her life because she didn't allow it to ruin her life.

I think most of us have been through potentially life-ruining events and have managed to come out of it because we didn't allow it to ruin us.

 

[mkgal1]

I think what "ruins the family" isn't the act, it's the response to it. Your daughter comes home pregnant at 16 and you throw her out of your house? News flash... Your daughter having sex before marriage didn't ruin your family. You looking your pregnant daughter in the face and saying "you're not welcome in my house, get out..." That ruined your family. Brothers beating up boyfriends for having sex with their sister? His having sex with your sister didn't land you in jail, you acting like a thug in response to it landed you in jail.

Even the Grandma/Grandpa raising baby with teenage daughter and single mom with HIV, in those situations your family isn't "ruined." Your family is going through something you may not have chosen to go through because of how hard it is, but it's not "ruined."

I think most of us have been through potentially life-ruining events and have managed to come out of it because we didn't allow it to ruin us.

Did you happen to see my other thread? This is the point I was trying to make. Well said (and applause for your mom!).

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Did you happen to see my other thread? This is the point I was trying to make. Well said (and applause for your mom!).

I just saw it and I'm a bit sick, but I'm sure I'll get to it at some point.

And thank you on her behalf. I get so sad when I hear people who are so quick to say that somebody's life is ruined. A ruined life... That's no small thing. It really isn't. It shouldn't be so easy to say that one event or circumstance is enough to ruin it, especially something like premarital sex.

 

[DZoolander]

Exactly.

To be honest - I'm appalled by the level of doucheyness that must be there for someone to disown their child over something like that.

If my teenage daughter were to show up pregnant - I'd lay out all of the options available to her moving forward - ranging from abortion to keeping the child to adoption. Regardless of what she chose - I'd support her in the goal to move forward. If she elected to keep the child - would it be more work for me? Sure. But that's my job as a parent - and my goal is to keep her on the right path and fill in whatever gaps that may arise in order to facilitate that. Anyone else that gets all judgy can go straight to hell.

I think the only option that I'd keep off the table is marrying the guy.

My goal for her is to be a well balanced, educated, self sufficient and productive member of society. If that means it's with kid in tow, then that's how it'll be.

Hopefully I can prevent that, though, by letting her know there's no guy worth a damn under 25, that birth control actually works if properly used by both parties 100% of the time, etc. But regardless of what may come - the end goal remains the same. The course may take unexpected turns - but IMHO it's the destination and my role in it that matters most.

 

[mkgal1]

I agree (laughing at "doucheyness"). Besides......isn't that all counterproductive? "You made a mistake.....so I'm going to cast you out" (most likely with no job......not finished with school, etc). In my mind......that may just push that child further down a road where good options are even more limited without any parental guidance and support (or maybe it was never there to begin with ).