Goodbye.....

St. Tikon · Mar 2, 2004

Staying around after all.............................

Maximus · Mar 2, 2004

Huh?

Don't go!

MariaRegina · Mar 2, 2004

Dear Tikon:

We learn much from each other. I'm sure that you can share some readings with us that will be edifying and not inflaming. Please continue to post prayers and reading from the saints.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

Photini · Mar 2, 2004

Please don't go. You just got here!

Matrona · Mar 2, 2004

St. Tikon said:
A fond goodbye to my Orthodox Brothers and sisters.
(Matrona, I know this will make you VERY happy)

Excuse me?

Matrona · Mar 3, 2004

Look, I'm sorry if defending my patriarchate has somehow offended you. But the Patriarchate of Antioch is fully canonical and is in communion with every other existing canonical patriarchate within the Orthodox Church.

I've seen other patriarchs do things I find worthy of a headscratch or two, but as long as the other canonical Orthodox churches don't find it necessary to break communion, neither do I. There's a reason that they're the hierarchs and I'm the laywoman.

(Lay...girl? Lay...young lady? Laylady? I better stop before I get that Bob Dylan song stuck in my head. )

Anyway, the point is, God did not ordain me to fill such a position in my church, and it's certainly not my place to try.

When I was an inquirer... as sure as I am of this life, when I was an inquirer, I felt as though I was being guided. I'm not sure if it was my guardian angel or perhaps the hand of the Holy Spirit Himself, but I was not called to become part of the Greek Orthodox church, or the ROCOR church, or the OCA church, but the tiny Antiochian mission. And I, with my weak and pitiful excuse for faith, was sent not a great vision from above, some kind of amazing theophany that would shake the very earth on which I stood. It simply happened that a nice boy came into my life, and he came from the Antiochian church. He didn't trample underfoot my former delusion with strokes of verbal violence--his quiet personal wisdom and faith spoke to my very heart. Now he is one of my very dear friends and every day I thank our Lord for sending him into my life. I wouldn't be here without him. Who knows if I would even still be a Christian, if it had not been for him?

Suzannah · Mar 3, 2004

St. Tikohn,

There is no reason at all for you to leave...you are much needed...especially in the thread called "Mormons as Orthodox Christianity"...LOL!!!! I started a new one over there in "Unorthodox Theology" and need all the help I can get...I'm just a terrible sinner and complete Bozo....where are you going??? Don't leave...I need help!
Love,
Suzannah

St. Tikon · Mar 3, 2004

Matrona said:
Look, I'm sorry if defending my patriarchate has somehow offended you. But the Patriarchate of Antioch is fully canonical and is in communion with every other existing canonical patriarchate within the Orthodox Church.

I've seen other patriarchs do things I find worthy of a headscratch or two, but as long as the other canonical Orthodox churches don't find it necessary to break communion, neither do I. There's a reason that they're the hierarchs and I'm the laywoman.

(Lay...girl? Lay...young lady? Laylady? I better stop before I get that Bob Dylan song stuck in my head. )

Anyway, the point is, God did not ordain me to fill such a position in my church, and it's certainly not my place to try.

When I was an inquirer... as sure as I am of this life, when I was an inquirer, I felt as though I was being guided. I'm not sure if it was my guardian angel or perhaps the hand of the Holy Spirit Himself, but I was not called to become part of the Greek Orthodox church, or the ROCOR church, or the OCA church, but the tiny Antiochian mission. And I, with my weak and pitiful excuse for faith, was sent not a great vision from above, some kind of amazing theophany that would shake the very earth on which I stood. It simply happened that a nice boy came into my life, and he came from the Antiochian church. He didn't trample underfoot my former delusion with strokes of verbal violence--his quiet personal wisdom and faith spoke to my very heart. Now he is one of my very dear friends and every day I thank our Lord for sending him into my life. I wouldn't be here without him. Who knows if I would even still be a Christian, if it had not been for him?

Matrona:

I truly, TRULY do not hate Antiochians. As a matter of fact, my closest friend is from that jurisdiction. (and we debate and fuss about the differences as well, I might add!)

Let me tell you my story:
I was raised as an Episcopalian, but about 22 years ago, I was searching my family tree, and discovered that I had a Great-Great uncle, who died during the Bolshevik Revolution, while attempting to save the life of Grand Duchess Elizabeth Romanov, (the wife of the Tsar's uncle.) Now St. Elizabeth; Royal Martyr of Russia. I converted to Orthodoxy, and decided to take the road to become a Deacon, I was ordained about 6 months ago. (I am not paid clergy, as ROCA, has very few of those in my area) So here I am.

Because of the journey I have taken, I am a VERY zealous defender of our faith, some may say OVERzealous, but I must do what the Lord and my heart commands me.

I only criticize your Patriarch, and Met, because they have taken some steps which are disturbing, to myself, and others as well. I pray for them, and wish them the best, and I do not hate them. I just disagree with the steps they have taken.

I sent you an e-mail of apology, because my intention was not to inflame anyone. Simply to educate on the Council of Chalcedon, and to point out the real differences between ourselves and the Non-Chalcedonians.

I have slept, prayed, and calmed down now, so I will hang around.

St. Tikon · Mar 3, 2004

chanter said:
Dear Tikon:

We learn much from each other. I'm sure that you can share some readings with us that will be edifying and not inflaming. Please continue to post prayers and reading from the saints.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

I am going to stay. And I never was attempting to inflame anyone.
I just call it like I see it!

Thank you for your kind words.

St. Tikon · Mar 3, 2004

Maximus said:
Huh?

Don't go!

I will hang around, I have slept, prayed, and coooooled off.

St. Tikon · Mar 3, 2004

Photini said:
Please don't go. You just got here!

I am going to stay, just had to cool off a bit.....I have a temper..(sometimes)
Not a real good trait for a deacon, but I'm working on it.

St. Tikon · Mar 3, 2004

Suzannah said:
St. Tikohn,

There is no reason at all for you to leave...you are much needed...especially in the thread called "Mormons as Orthodox Christianity"...LOL!!!! I started a new one over there in "Unorthodox Theology" and need all the help I can get...I'm just a terrible sinner and complete Bozo....where are you going??? Don't leave...I need help!
Love,
Suzannah

Well now sister, you wouldn't be knowing that I am IRISH on me fathers side would ya?

I have cooled down, and will be staying. I will be happy to WADE into the thread, but I am not real sure they would be happy about it
Don't want to get banned

ChoirDir · Mar 3, 2004

Tikon, I am glad you are staying. Even tho you might be "zealous" as you describe, your opinions are good to have here. I may not agree with them but this is part of the give and take process. I also attend an Antiochian Church like Matrona, I originally was a member of an OCA Church, when I moved to SC there were no OCA parishes in my vicinity. If the only Church here was ROCA I would attend it. The point is Orthodox is Orthodox. Let's keep that spirit alive without pointing fingers at each other

prodromos · Mar 3, 2004

I'm glad you've decided to stick around Tikon. We could use some more clergy on this forum even if they happen to be passionate Irish (well half Irish anyway). I'm married to a Greek myself so I know all about that

John.

Suzannah · Mar 3, 2004

I'm so glad you're staying!!!!

If you're Irish, then you really must stay and not leave me alone here! I don't want to be Greek....or Serbian....or Russian...They wouldn't claim me anyway! I just want to be Orthodox and I need your help!

MariaRegina · Mar 3, 2004

Dear Father Deacon (Tikon)

I'm so glad you plan on staying. You're the only clergy we have now.

God grant you many years!

In Christ our God,
Elizabeth

Dominus Fidelis · Mar 3, 2004

I truly, TRULY do not hate Antiochians. As a matter of fact, my closest friend is from that jurisdiction. (and we debate and fuss about the differences as well, I might add!)

I thought Orthodox didn't have any conflicts? Can you elaborate?

Matrona · Mar 3, 2004

St. Tikon said:
Matrona:

I truly, TRULY do not hate Antiochians. As a matter of fact, my closest friend is from that jurisdiction. (and we debate and fuss about the differences as well, I might add!)

Is that so?

Then what's with all the cannibalism?

The Antiochian Patriarchate is not ordaining lesbians and declaring that the Resurrection never happened. There's no epidemic of abusive priests here.

Did you miss church a few Sundays ago? Specifically, Meatfare Sunday?

I had a Great-Great uncle, who died during the Bolshevik Revolution, while attempting to save the life of Grand Duchess Elizabeth Romanov, (the wife of the Tsar's uncle.) Now St. Elizabeth; Royal Martyr of Russia.

Neat.

On the other end of the spectrum, I am probably the only person in my family in the past thousand years--on either side--to be an Orthodox Christian.

Because of the journey I have taken, I am a VERY zealous defender of our faith, some may say OVERzealous, but I must do what the Lord and my heart commands me.

Our Lord does not command you to imply that we Antiochians are heterodox. ("I am not 100% sure that Antioch is in "communion" per say [sic]... I know that MY patriarchate is not in communion with them, which suits me.")

We have not been threatened with anathemas from CANONICAL Orthodox churches, so I take it the CANONICAL churches aren't fussed with what my patriarchate does. Unless Antioch is declared anathema by an ecumenical council, I don't see any reason for you to be fussed about it, either.

Common things happen commonly; uncommon things do not. Therefore, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
[*]

St. Athanasius is a zebra.

I only criticize your Patriarch, and Met, because they have taken some steps which are disturbing, to myself, and others as well. I pray for them, and wish them the best, and I do not hate them. I just disagree with the steps they have taken.

When you criticize them, you are criticizing your brothers who have given their whole lives over to God. Remember that.

If you truly see someone as your brother (or sister) in Christ, treat them like your brother or sister.

[*] Unless, perhaps, you happen to live on the African savannah.

Matrona · Mar 3, 2004

Defens0rFidei said:
I thought Orthodox didn't have any conflicts? Can you elaborate?

ROCA, as near as I can tell, isn't in communion with anyone but Serbia (canonical), Jerusalem (canonical, I'm pretty sure), and possibly something or other calling itself the Greek "Synod in resistance" or the "true Orthodox church of Greece", so I wouldn't be too worried here if I were you.

I may have this mixed up somewhere, though--I'm normally not fussed with keeping up with schismatics.

nicodemus · Mar 3, 2004

Jerusalem Patriarchate is definately fully canonical. They're the poor souls enduring untold amounts of persecution and grief to make sure there's an Orthodox presence in the Holy Land (I know there are other Orthodox groups there too, but Jerusalem Patriarchate's faithful is primarily Arab.)

There's a Jerusalem Patriarchate monastery that my parish has a great relationship with.

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