Good People

[Spiritualnekhtet]

Hello, I'm new here. I have a question though, which was really the reason I joined these forums. I've had discussions about this with other christians before, but I'm curious as to what others think about it. Okay so here is my question:

Since it is through the acceptance of Jesus as your saviour that you gain entrance into heaven, do your actions in this world not matter if you truly accept him?

 

[PhilosopherD]

Hello, I'm new here. I have a question though, which was really the reason I joined these forums. I've had discussions about this with other christians before, but I'm curious as to what others think about it. Okay so here is my question:

Since it is through the acceptance of Jesus as your saviour that you gain entrance into heaven, do your actions in this world not matter if you truly accept him?

Actions do count. Good actions are a reflection of Christian character. It is not enough to say we have faith. In fact, from what I understand, the N.T. usage of faith implies 'faithfulness,' which requires an active response to God.

Faith is not simple lipservice, althougth confession is a good beginning.

 

[dvd_holc]

Jesus said if you hold to my teachings truly you are my disciple. Likewise Jesus said why do you call me Lord, Lord but do not do what I say. If we bear no good fruit then we are still bad tree...we are not to be conformed to this world but transformed in everything we are and will be.

 

[dvd_holc]

and welcome to CF

 

[MethodMan]

Hello, I'm new here. I have a question though, which was really the reason I joined these forums. I've had discussions about this with other christians before, but I'm curious as to what others think about it. Okay so here is my question:

Since it is through the acceptance of Jesus as your saviour that you gain entrance into heaven, do your actions in this world not matter if you truly accept him?

If one is a faithful follower of Christ, your sin nature will bother you. God already knows you.

Welcome to CF!

 

[Spiritualnekhtet]

Thanks. I haven't been on too many Christian forums before to be honest, which I guess makes sense. I thought a Christian oriented forum would give me more insight than some other sites I've been on.

So you have to live a good life and be faithful to the Christian God/Jesus in order to avoid hell? That's kind of what I'm gettting here, is that correct? What if you don't accept Christ until just before you die? Like if you really mean it, not just say it, if you understand what I mean.

 

[Calminian]

So you have to live a good life and be faithful to the Christian God/Jesus in order to avoid hell?

No not quite. Salvation is not by works, but rather through faith apart from works.

Rom. 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

But if one truly believes, works will be a natural byproduct. Works don't add to salvation in any way, but they help us to recognize who really is a christian and who isn't (including ourselves). Works aren't the means to salvation but rather the result of salvation. You see, believers receive what theologians call the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit guides us and aids us to fulfill the works God desires for us. But this does require cooperation. Those who fail to cooperate will suffer loss, but not the loss of their salvation. They will merely lose reward in heaven.

1Cor. 3:14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Hope that helps.

 

[PenelopePitstop2]

Accepting Jesus as your saviour is a good start since we all sin and need forgiveness. However a true follower of Jesus has made Him Lord of their life and follow his example. Being a christian doesn't make me perfect and I still sin and need to seek God to forgive me and help me live right daily.

All of us will stand before God and give an account of their life. The goal is to hear our Lord say well done my good and faithful servant.

If someone were about to die and had lived a sinful life but turned to Jesus and asked forgiveness, they would be saved if they truly meant it. However since none of us know when or where we are going to breathe our last breath, it's not a good idea to hold out and put off accepting the gift of salvation.

Hope that helps.

PP2

 

[metherion]

Someone who has truly accepted Christ will live in a Christlike way for the rest of their life. Some people their call to Christ-likeness in different ways however. Some people sequester themselves away and pray, while others dedicate their whole lives to others. Most people fall in between. But

While it is faith that saves one, faith without deeds is dead, as the letter of James says, in verses 14-26:

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


If someone truly believes just as they are dying, then we believe they will be saved, but will still have to answer for what they did before they accepted Him.

Metherion

 

[rocklife]

Thanks. I haven't been on too many Christian forums before to be honest, which I guess makes sense. I thought a Christian oriented forum would give me more insight than some other sites I've been on.

So you have to live a good life and be faithful to the Christian God/Jesus in order to avoid hell? That's kind of what I'm gettting here, is that correct? What if you don't accept Christ until just before you die? Like if you really mean it, not just say it, if you understand what I mean.

a very good way to learn about Christianity is to read the New Testament. I highly recommend (also rest of bible too, but New Testament shows Jesus very easily). It really does not take as long as you would think, you can even listen to it on tapes or maybe on downloading somewhere.

also if you would like to learn more about hell, I recommend http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/storacle_lessons.asp. The one called "Cities of Ash" click Watch. the punishment for sin is death. Jesus offers eternal life, that is a great hope. Christian life is not about escaping torture burnings (that is a misunderstood concept, even among church leaders). A prayerful study will show God of love is really loving.

 

[TexasGirl06]

So you have to live a good life and be faithful to the Christian God/Jesus in order to avoid hell? That's kind of what I'm gettting here, is that correct? What if you don't accept Christ until just before you die? Like if you really mean it, not just say it, if you understand what I mean.

Welcome to Christian Forums !

A person can never be good enough to enter Heaven.
A Christian is heavenbound.... only because the punishment for their sin (eternal death, hell) has been removed, because of Jesus' death on the cross.

Many don't accept Christ until their death bed.

A rotten, stinking.... child molester, murderer.... can still enter Heaven.
It's true.
He can be forgiven.
Jesus did die for him, too.

 

[Spiritualnekhtet]

That's one of the things I just can't understand about the Christian faith. It seems as though rapists and other such people recieve no punishment (aside from something human law would deal out) and that what you do in this world doesn't matter. Not to offend, because honestly I find quite a bit of your faith to be in agreement with mine and to be quite beautiful, but to me it doesn't seem just, and I just can't seem to understand the fact that your actions don't matter. Maybe it's because my beliefs are so different, in that I believe your actions are what really matter, and your manner of worship does not, since we all worship the same divine force in the end.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone here, I really haven't meant to and religious discussions tend to be touchy ones and it's nearly impossible to please everyone in them.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Spiritualnekhtet, you had many good replies, and I agree wholeheartedly. Perhaps this makes it more easy to understand. Jesus gave us 2 Commandments, which contai all 10 Commandments, God gave us. 1) Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds. 2) Love each other, as you love yourselves, which also means; Never do, or say, anything to anybody, which you would not want them to do, or say, to yourself, or your dear ones. This is not easy, but you will find, once you start, it becomes easier and easier, and we have years to practice. Jesus will help and guide us, and He will also see our every thought, our every wish, and our every deed, in fact he will see our hearts. Once you let love rule your life, you will reap love whereever you go, Spiritualnekhtet. I say this humbly and with love, and send greetings. Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Hoankan]

Look at one of the simplest prayers that was taught to us, 'Lord, have mercy on me a sinner.' Looks easy to do, but if you truly mean it, that first word is hard to get out. You admit that God is your Lord and you are but his servent and you are humbly beseeching him to forgive you.

I've worked as a volunteer police officer and one thing I've seen and heard countless times about many criminals (child molesters especially) is a complete inability to realize what they did is wrong. If these people cannot admit that they've done wrong, how can they repent their sins and follow Christ? I'm sure there are plenty that say in words but not in actions, and maybe lots more that try to bargain (for example: God, get me out of this and I'll be ever faithful to you), but is that truly accepting Christ?

So it's possible, but it's not a get out of jail free by just saying a few words. Hope that helps

 

[TexasGirl06]

That's one of the things I just can't understand about the Christian faith. It seems as though rapists and other such people recieve no punishment (aside from something human law would deal out) and that what you do in this world doesn't matter. Not to offend, because honestly I find quite a bit of your faith to be in agreement with mine and to be quite beautiful, but to me it doesn't seem just, and I just can't seem to understand the fact that your actions don't matter. Maybe it's because my beliefs are so different, in that I believe your actions are what really matter, and your manner of worship does not, since we all worship the same divine force in the end.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone here, I really haven't meant to and religious discussions tend to be touchy ones and it's nearly impossible to please everyone in them.

It is really good to be asking the questions that you have. You haven't offended me....
and I suspect that you have not offended the other Christians on this thread, either.

About the rapist/murdered, etc:

God tells us that the punishment for sin is death.
sin is rape.
sin is murder.
sin is stealing the $.50 candy bar from the store.

It is all sin and it all gets the same punishment.

The Bible tells us that the wages for sin is death.

Because we sin, we will die.
die = we will go to hell when we die.
(eternally separated from God.)

God sets the standard for sin.
He is Holy.
He gets to decide.

Thank goodness He loved us enough....not to leave us in our sinful state.
He offers us all salvation. It is a free Gift.
You cannot earn it. You cannot buy it.

Actions do matter. They just cannot play a part in whether or not we get our "ticket" to Heaven.

Jesus did the "Action". He provided the ticket.
We cannot add to what He did.
Is what He did....not good enough? ..... that I need to now go and do good things in order to seal the contract?

As a Christian, one who is saved from the eternal consequences of my sin..... I will still sin. However, I will sin less.

Sactification is a process. When I accept Jesus' forgiveness... I begin a lifelong process of beginning to look like Him. I will never obtain this, here on earth.

Some people move quickly into this process....and they maintain a gradual growth in this area.
Others... get saved and then get stuck.

Perhaps they are stuck for years.

Some get saved on their death bed...
they are however, saved....

It is our human responsibility to seek God. After we are saved, we must purpose to know Him more and more. We have to study Him. We have to serve Him. We have to fellowship with other Believers. etc..etc...
This is how we begin develop to look more like Him.

One who is saved.... and thus has the Holy Spirit indwelling in them, will have a desire to be good. Yet, he will still sin. He is human.

So... (and I really understand your questions. I certainly had them myself at one time)
Who are we to say that stealing a candy does not deserve hell...and that murder does deserve hell?
God sets the standard.
He runs the show. Not us.

Hope this helps.

Please be encouraged in your questioning.

 

[salida]

Spiritualnek--

When one accepts Christ in their lives, the Holy Spirit transforms them into christ's image. Its a slow growing process, a lifestyle and a real transformation. Your nature does changes into Gods nature from the old human nature. Thus, your born again. With all this is true faith. The byproduct of true faith in Christ is good works. For example, you may have faith in your car to get you do work but if you don't turn the key and put action into it all its useless. Your faith didn't do anything unless you put action into it.

A christian walks and talks like a christian. Just like a duck walks and quacks like a duck not like a horse. I didn't say real christians never had bad days - but generally they practice what they preach. Jesus said to inspect the fruits of an individual.

 

[Merlin]

Actually, by the new system, the actions matter more.
The new system is not about wrong, but rather doing right.

 

[Spiritualnekhtet]

See I think I understand what you're saying, it just doesn't sit right with me. Probably because I'm not Christian, and I believe many things that are so different from the Christian Faith. Then again, I do believe in a set of rules similar to the 10 commandments, called the 42 purifications/Declarations of Innocence (also called the Negative Confessions by some), and it's not so much I see your faith as "wrong" or "right", because I really don't, I just don't agree with some of it, as you probably don't agree with some of mine. I really appreciate your answers though, they're really some of the first fairly educated ones I've heard on this subject.

I also had another question, someone mentioned (sorry I can't remember the user name at the moment) something about there being degrees of reward in heaven, what exactly does that mean?

 

[Merlin]

See I think I understand what you're saying, it just doesn't sit right with me. Probably because I'm not Christian, and I believe many things that are so different from the Christian Faith. Then again, I do believe in a set of rules similar to the 10 commandments, called the 42 purifications/Declarations of Innocence (also called the Negative Confessions by some), and it's not so much I see your faith as "wrong" or "right", because I really don't, I just don't agree with some of it, as you probably don't agree with some of mine. I really appreciate your answers though, they're really some of the first fairly educated ones I've heard on this subject.

I also had another question, someone mentioned (sorry I can't remember the user name at the moment) something about there being degrees of reward in heaven, what exactly does that mean?

We (Christians) are rewarded for each thing we do that He asks us to do.

 

[BigNorsk]

Christianity can be hard to grasp. Let me try to help you.

It is true that we are saved by faith. Our deeds do not save us.

And this is a little sloppy just because we are doing it in English which has one word for belief and one for faith instead of one word that really includes both like Greek does.

Anyway, we aren't saved because we are good enough, because the standard is perfection. We are saved because Jesus was perfect and through our faith we are united with him and his perfection saves us.

So we really aren't saved by our deeds but rather the deeds of Jesus.

Now at this point some make the jump that you seem to have and say that since works don't save us they don't matter. Just go and do whatever evil you want.

Well, that doesn't do justice to faith. Faith is belief but remember you do the things you do bases on what you believe.

If I tell you I believe that whomever walks out the door will get shot, yet I just walk right out or let you walk right out. My actions show you I don't believe what I say.

It is the same with faith. Our old person hangs around and we still sin, but faith fills you with love. Love for God and love for man. You have probably met people who tell you they are Christian but it's, shall we say, difficult to feel the love.

Anyway you say that rapists or murderers or whatever aren't punished by Christianity. Well really they are. People who hate other people so much so as to do that to them generally aren't Christian no matter what they say. Here's one biblical reference on the subject.

Rev 21:7-8 NET.
(7) The one who conquers will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
(8) But to the cowards, unbelievers, detestable persons, murderers, the sexually immoral, and those who practice magic spells, idol worshipers, and all those who lie, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. That is the second death."
See if you have faith, then the Spirit changes you and you have God's love and that love changes how you are and how you act. The deeds do not save us but they flow from our faith, our love. It is difficult in the case of someone who claims to love God yet goes around hating man to see how it could be true. It is for God to know for sure, but we are often told to judge leaders and such, and we don't judge them by their words but by their deeds. The reason we do that is to distinguish from the false, of which the Bible warns us there will be many, from the true.

It must be very confusing for someon who is not that familiar with the Bible to distinguish the true from the false. So many desire to be called Christian and proclaim that loudly so people will trust them and give them what they want. And even Christians can get confused by some of the false teachers, many of them are very good at what they do. And so it is very likely that the image people have of Christians isn't really very accurate at all.
1Jo 3:15 NET.
(15) Everyone who hates his fellow Christian is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
Hope that helps you understand.